esldude Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 duplicate post deleted Seems CA has been sluggish and glitchy at times the last few days, and duplicate posts seem to pop up when that is the case. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 DUPLICATE POST deleted How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 duplicate post deleted Seems CA has been sluggish and glitchy at times the last few days, and duplicate posts seem to pop up when that is the case. If digital is so bloody good and inherently error free as some claim, why do so many different forums keep having odd problems like this on a regular basis ? HFC forum is even worse for reliability and weird issues. This time when I tried Quick Reply I was asked if I wished to leave this page on several occasions. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Sal1950 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Spin this: I'm trying to learn by having friendly chats with knowledgeable people. You're not contributing anything useful or amusing. I guess we'll have to disagree, I found it quite amusing, and right on target. "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
Jud Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 What I called shimmering could also sound like a non-integrated, but centered image. You might get that effect if a very small timing difference was causing comb filtering in the combined image. The shift could be too small to pick up as a position shift, yet the rapidly rotating phase would make the image seem non-integrated. It would take some time and experience for what you hear when there are differences to make sense. I think you are at the point of trying it out and simply seeing what happens. If you want to try 44/16 vs 96/24 why not convert 44/16 to 96/24 and then back to 44/16 and back to 96/24. Do this loop say 4 times. Each conversion will have the effect of implementing the brick wall filtering an additional time. Do 4 loops and leave it in 96/24 form. Drop the original 96/24 in one channel and the multi-sample rate converted 44/16 in the other. Just see if anything is apparent or not. Of course you also will be building dither upon dither. Still easy enough to do and see what the result sounds like. Yep, I agree about simply trying stuff out. About the 16/44.1 vs. 24/96 - There's certainly the thought that if one will hear a difference anywhere, it will be at the extremes, as you are describing with the looping experiment. But I distrust extremes. Archimago offered a linear phase vs. minimum phase test at his site, where each example was taken to extremes of ringing, the thought being to maximize any difference. I had thought to take part (even though I mentioned on the site some reasons why I didn't think the test would necessarily be valid), but never got around to it. I doubt I would have been able to pass the test. However, I have been able to pass blind tests at home, where I put Audirvana Plus on shuffle play with files upsampled using Audiophile Inventory's minimum phase and linear phase filters. With these very good quality files, what I was able to identify blind through my speakers, which carefully preserve phase and timing, was a slight degradation of imaging with the minimum phase filtering. I attribute this to minimum phase filters having group delay, which messes up (technical term) very slightly the phase and timing attributes of the speakers. The difference is a delicate thing (though I feel better imaging does help create a sense of realism), and I'm not at all confident ringing filters would preserve it. That's an example of people believing that the difference being sought must lie in one direction (pre-ringing with linear phase filters, no pre-ringing with minimum phase), and thus devising a test designed to maximize such a difference, which would likely destroy the difference I heard in my system (better imaging with a linear phase filter that preserves phase and timing integrity through my speakers). Thus my overall preference would be to (1) listen to the highest quality files possible (2) using a protocol designed to absolutely minimize differences in any other factor besides the one being tested, because any audible differences may lie in a direction other than one I've thought of before listening. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
PopPop Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 If digital is so bloody good and inherently error free as some claim, why do so many different forums keep having odd problems like this on a regular basis ? HFC forum is even worse for reliability and weird issues. This time when I tried Quick Reply I was asked if I wished to leave this page on several occasions. Not to worry until you get asked if you wish to leave the forum. [emoji6] That I ask questions? I am more concerned about being stupid than looking like I might be. Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Not to worry until you get asked if you wish to leave the forum. [emoji6] On a few occasions I would have welcomed that option. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Duplicate deleted How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
PopPop Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 On a few occasions I would have welcomed that option. [emoji106] [emoji4] That I ask questions? I am more concerned about being stupid than looking like I might be. Link to comment
lmitche Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Yep, I agree about simply trying stuff out. About the 16/44.1 vs. 24/96 - There's certainly the thought that if one will hear a difference anywhere, it will be at the extremes, as you are describing with the looping experiment. Jud, Here is something of interest that a friend sent to me, that seems on topic. I hope he doesn't mind my sharing it here. --------- Why we need PCM 352 Khz and DSD 256. It has been fairly well established that the human hearing can detect timing differences greater than 4 micro seconds, 4 x 10-6 What timing resolution is achievable in the various PCM format sample rates ? 44 KHz 22.7 micro seconds 96 KHz 10.4 micro seconds 192 KHz 5.2 micro seconds 352 KHz 2.8 micro seconds For DSD, assuming we want 20 bits to achieve the peak level, then the achievable timing resolution is DSD 64 8.8 microseconds DSD 128 4.4 micro seconds DSD 256 2.2 micro seconds Hopefully this stirs the pot! Larry Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
Paul R Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 If digital is so bloody good and inherently error free as some claim, why do so many different forums keep having odd problems like this on a regular basis ? HFC forum is even worse for reliability and weird issues. This time when I tried Quick Reply I was asked if I wished to leave this page on several occasions. Ah, bit even when the software fouled up, it duplicated your post *exactly*. There is a lesson in there somewhere. If it had deleted one of your duplicate posts before you saw it, how would you onow which was the original, and which one a duplicate. Do you believe your second copy of the message suffered feom bit degredation or something? Or that it was indeed, and exact copy - or duplicate if you please? Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Paul R Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 What do you guys mean by a non integrated image? That you could detect which speaker the sounds were coming out of, like an anciet stereo recording with all the voices on the left and the instruments on the right? Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Jud Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 What do you guys mean by a non integrated image? That you could detect which speaker the sounds were coming out of, like an anciet stereo recording with all the voices on the left and the instruments on the right? I was talking about the mono version of Pet Sounds, so getting different things in each channel would be a neat trick. No, I mean Brian Wilson's voice smack in the middle, but one half of Brian's head didn't sing as well as the other half. (See picture earlier in the thread of Two-Face from the Batman comics.) One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Ah, bit even when the software fouled up, it duplicated your post *exactly*. No it didn't ! With one post, "DUPLICATE POST" definitely became "Duplicate post". How do we know that you didn't actually type "but" instead of "bit", "know" instead of "onow", "from" instead of "feom"or "an" instead of "and" ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Ah, bit even when the software fouled up, it duplicated your post *exactly*. No it didn't ! With one post, "DUPLICATE POST" definitely became "Duplicate post". How do we know that you didn't actually type "but" instead of "bit", "know" instead of "onow", "from" instead of "feom"or "an" instead of "and" ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Sal1950 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 If digital is so bloody good and inherently error free as some claim, why do so many different forums keep having odd problems like this on a regular basis ? HFC forum is even worse for reliability and weird issues. This time when I tried Quick Reply I was asked if I wished to leave this page on several occasions. I would suspect an issue with your browser, I've had zero issues posting here or most any where else for that manner. Have you tried using a different browser? "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I would suspect an issue with your browser, I've had zero issues posting here or most any where else for that manner. Have you tried using a different browser? See reply 776 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Sal1950 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 This time when I tried Quick Reply I was asked if I wished to leave this page on several occasions.[/color] I have experienced that message here but after answering Yes the post went up correctly. I've also experienced the sluggishness when trying to type into the reply box, thinking maybe a java or flash issue with one of the ad suppliers. "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Even Superdad had a duplicate post this afternoon. I doubt that it was a coincidence. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Paul R Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 No it didn't ! With one post, "DUPLICATE POST" definitely became "Duplicate post". How do we know that you didn't actually type "but" instead of "bit", "know" instead of "onow", "from" instead of "feom"or "an" instead of "and" ? Well, one of those was a pun and the other two are typos. Could it be that one of those "duplicate post " entries was typed by you and the other one was put in by the system? That would easily explain the differences. Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Paul R Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I was talking about the mono version of Pet Sounds, so getting different things in each channel would be a neat trick. No, I mean Brian Wilson's voice smack in the middle, but one half of Brian's head didn't sing as well as the other half. (See picture earlier in the thread of Two-Face from the Batman comics.) I have difficulty understanding exactly what you were hearing. With this be similar to the result of a comb filter? Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Well, one of those was a pun and the other two are typos. Could it be that one of those "duplicate post " entries was typed by you and the other one was put in by the system? That would easily explain the differences. Was "anciet" a typo too ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Well, one of those was a pun and the other two are typos. Could it be that one of those "duplicate post " entries was typed by you and the other one was put in by the system? That would easily explain the differences. Was "anciet" a typo too ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Sal1950 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Was "anciet" a typo too ? Have you made a report of the issues to the site admin with the issues? Although I haven't run into the dup post problem there's deffinitely some weird issues going on. "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I have experienced that message here but after answering Yes the post went up correctly.I've also experienced the sluggishness when trying to type into the reply box, thinking maybe a java or flash issue with one of the ad suppliers. Have YOU made a report to the site Admin over these issues ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
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