Optical Network Configurations

[jcn3]

15 hours ago, Audio said:

 

 

The Ubiquiti has the noisy fans.

 

(Audio)

 

the us-8-150 doesn't have a fan so is completely silent.  my us-24-250 does have fans and shouldn't be installed in a living space.

[ericuco]

Decided to try the MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ switch as a possible replacement for my QNAP QSW-804-4C switch.

 

The QNAP worked well for the most part. I found that you needed to reboot the QNAP after making any port changes. Otherwise I would get gaps (1-2 second) in the output when using my NAS to feed Roon & HQP Desktop.

 

The MikroTik is about 1/4 the size due to fewer ports and lack of internal power supply. Took it out the box, plugged in my SFP modules (1 - 10GB & 3 - 1GB), powered the unit up and everything worked. Easy peasy. By default, it is running RouterOS in Bridge mode. I am powering it using one the adjustable outlets on my HD Plex 200W power supply (set to 15V).

 

Too early for any SQ assessments but a quick listen seemed to sound same of QNAP.

 

The SFP modules are Finisar & Cisco.

[wklie]

On 9/16/2019 at 11:59 PM, Miska said:

Based on the reasoning that the network jitter matters for audio, streams from Tidal and Qobuz should be completely unlistenable, especially in my case where they go over LTE data link and end up even in best case with jitter in several milliseconds scale.

 

This is probably not a popular view here, but elsewhere many audiophiles are adamant that physical CD sounds better than streaming or CD rips.  I've even read a dealer saying physical CD sounds better than Qobuz Hi-Res.  I would like to change this perception, and in case users experience the same problem I hope to be able to suggest ways to improve the SQ from their streaming setup.

 

So I'm hopeful that network isolation will help and that's part of the reasons we have SFP port in Lumin X1.  I've also read anecdotal reports that people got better streaming SQ after changing the power supplies for modem and network equipment to audiophile LPS.  (Yes I read the leakage current discussions here.)

[soares]

8 hours ago, wklie said:

 

This is probably not a popular view here, but elsewhere many audiophiles are adamant that physical CD sounds better than streaming or CD rips.  I've even read a dealer saying physical CD sounds better than Qobuz Hi-Res.  I would like to change this perception, and in case users experience the same problem I hope to be able to suggest ways to improve the SQ from their streaming setup.

 

So I'm hopeful that network isolation will help and that's part of the reasons we have SFP port in Lumin X1.  I've also read anecdotal reports that people got better streaming SQ after changing the power supplies for modem and network equipment to audiophile LPS.  (Yes I read the leakage current discussions here.)

If you tried and didn’t experience any differences it might be explained by the fact that the system you got it’s really very good or, on contrary, it doesn’t deliver a good SQ. Cheers

[John769]

17 hours ago, ericuco said:

Decided to try the MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ switch as a possible replacement for my QNAP QSW-804-4C switch.

 

Thanks for your impressions.  Out of interest, were you ever able to compare the QNAP to a Cisco Catalyst 2960?   I use the latter and am interested to hear how the Mikro Tik compares as a switch,

[ericuco]

59 minutes ago, John769 said:

Thanks for your impressions.  Out of interest, were you ever able to compare the QNAP to a Cisco Catalyst 2960?   I use the latter and am interested to hear how the Mikro Tik compares as a switch,

 

I only had the Cisco switch in for a very short period of time so I really can't say anything definitive other than I did not like what I heard right off the bat so I took it out. I believe that was due to me already running a mostly fiber optic network for several years and that the Cisco forced me to use Ethernet except for the one port. For me, fiber optics is the only way to go.

 

I have had a chance to listen to the MikroTik for a few albums now and it sounds as good as the QNAP so as of now, the MikroTek stays and the QNAP is out, primarily due to being a much smaller footprint and is fanless (QNAP fanless are very quiet but it still has a fans).

 

Assuming you are in the US, you can get the MikroTek on Amazon for $130 (and one day shipping!!) with a free return policy.

[charlesphoto]

There are Cisco 2960's that have two SFP ports, though you'll pay more. Or you could daisy two older 2960's if you need another SFP out and RJ45 ports at the same time. Plenty of options and ways to go. 

[ericuco]

4 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

There are Cisco 2960's that have two SFP ports, though you'll pay more. Or you could daisy two older 2960's if you need another SFP out and RJ45 ports at the same time. Plenty of options and ways to go. 

 

Thanks but I am using four SFP ports with one MikroTik switch which is 10GB (vs 1 GB on Cisco), a much small footprint and relatively cheap ($130). Now that I have an opticalRendu, I don't have any Ethernet associated with my music system.

 

Your suggestion to daisy chain two Cisco's made me chuckle. Why in the world would anyone do that given as you also suggest "plenty of options and ways to go"? If someone needs to use Ethernet, the MikroTek does have a Ethernet port as well.

 

As for SQ which is the ultimate driver, I thought it was a downgrade when using the Cisco. Obviously, this is system dependent but for me the Cisco just didn't work out.

[charlesphoto]

I wasn't saying you should do differently, just offering some options for other users out there. I tried the Mikrotek and ultimately it wasn't for me for topology not sound reasons, but hard to beat at that price (went back to Amazon). Note that some users have found varying sound quality between 2960's so keep that in mind. And two older 2960's might set you back only $60-70 so that's why I mentioned that option. 

 

You may get better sound even going opticalModule to opticalRendu, but only you can tell that by trying (and it's your wallet as well of course). 

[kerisabe]

On 10/26/2019 at 12:51 AM, charlesphoto said:

I wasn't saying you should do differently, just offering some options for other users out there. I tried the Mikrotek and ultimately it wasn't for me for topology not sound reasons, but hard to beat at that price (went back to Amazon). Note that some users have found varying sound quality between 2960's so keep that in mind. And two older 2960's might set you back only $60-70 so that's why I mentioned that option. 

 

You may get better sound even going opticalModule to opticalRendu, but only you can tell that by trying (and it's your wallet as well of course). 

Yes i second what @charlesphoto is saying, regarding the varying sound quality between 2960s. I have 2 and they both sound diff. One better than the other. 

[jabbr]

24 ports 10Gbe SFP+ and 2 ports 40 Gbe QSFP $495!!

https://www.servethehome.com/mikrotik-crs326-24s2qrm-review-insane-switch/

[plissken]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

24 ports 10Gbe SFP+ and 2 ports 40 Gbe QSFP $495!!

https://www.servethehome.com/mikrotik-crs326-24s2qrm-review-insane-switch/

 

That's crazy. I wonder what ISL and LAG technologies it supports. Gonna take a look. FS.com 10GBe LC MM  transceivers are ~$17.

 

Took a quick look at their product lineup and the CRS317-1g-16S+RM is $349. 16 port SFP+.

 

Important: Passive Cooling.

 

 

[jaaptina]

I'm going to buy the Sonore opticalModule to use down stream just in front of my network player. Upstream I have TP-Link MC220L or Trendnet TEG S51SFP. What would you recommend? Or should I sell both and buy some Cisco SFP switch? 

[plissken]

35 minutes ago, jaaptina said:

I'm going to buy the Sonore opticalModule to use down stream just in front of my network player. Upstream I have TP-Link MC220L or Trendnet TEG S51SFP. What would you recommend? Or should I sell both and buy some Cisco SFP switch? 

 

If your streamer is only Copper RJE plus wireless I don't see the point in going copper<>optical<>copper. The media converter is going to have it's own power supply. You are trading deck chairs on the Titanic in this regard.

 

You are better off going copper from the get go and let distance attenuation do the job for you. No sense in putting a power supply as close to the streamer input as possible.

Better yet use the WiFi.

[barrows]

While I do not agree with Gordon Rankin on everything, I d.o agree with his position on WiFi.  In any case this podcast is a good listen:

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/gordon-rankin-wavelength-audio-audiostream-podcast-no12

 

At Sonore we do not really recommend WiFi for those looking for best sonic performance.

[plissken]

33 minutes ago, barrows said:

While I do not agree with Gordon Rankin on everything, I d.o agree with his position on WiFi.  In any case this podcast is a good listen:

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/gordon-rankin-wavelength-audio-audiostream-podcast-no12

 

At Sonore we do not really recommend WiFi for those looking for best sonic performance.

 

All you or Gordon would have to do is listen to some music while Airplane mode is enabled/disabled and pick it out.

[barrows]

Or, I could not bother with that and just listen to what I already do, fantastic sound with optical Ethernet isolation from all the commercial computer gear via The Signature Rendu SEoptical. 

[plissken]

At around the 17 minute mark I now understand why other EE's take exception with Gordon.

[barrows]

2 minutes ago, plissken said:

At around the 17 minute mark I now understand why other EE's take exception with Gordon.

And there are things I disagree on with him as well...  But it would be a boring world with nothing to learn if everyone, even EEs, all agreed!

 

[plissken]

54 minutes ago, barrows said:

And there are things I disagree on with him as well...  But it would be a boring world with nothing to learn if everyone, even EEs, all agreed!

 

 

At 31 minutes. Wow, just WOW. He's clueless. I don't know how one even begins to make the claim he just made. It's nonsensical.

 

He's maintaining that WiFi takes 40 times the amount of data to do the same thing as Wired. He's talking about WiFi that for $100 can deliver easily 50 concurrent 24/192 streams.

[plissken]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

Or, I could not bother with that and just listen to what I already do, fantastic sound with optical Ethernet isolation from all the commercial computer gear via The Signature Rendu SEoptical. 

 

Same here with $100 worth of WiFi equipment. Amazing the education airplane mode can deliver.

[soares]

6 hours ago, jaaptina said:

I'm going to buy the Sonore opticalModule to use down stream just in front of my network player. Upstream I have TP-Link MC220L or Trendnet TEG S51SFP. What would you recommend? Or should I sell both and buy some Cisco SFP switch? 

Go for the oM and Cisco. If possible use a good power supply with the oM. If you can afford skip the Cisco and use an etherregen with the oM.

[Albrecht]

On 12/22/2019 at 9:44 AM, jaaptina said:

I'm going to buy the Sonore opticalModule to use down stream just in front of my network player. Upstream I have TP-Link MC220L or Trendnet TEG S51SFP. What would you recommend? Or should I sell both and buy some Cisco SFP switch? 

I can say that in my system, after listening, - that the opticalModule on the ultraRendu side is a significant improvement over two TP-Link MC200cms. I have been using linear power supplies with each FMC. I am glad that I bought one SOnore OpticalModule. I am still not completely certain when/if I am going to get an opticalRendu, - but I will likely replace the TP-Link FMC "sender" if I replace the ultraRendu with the optical module.

 

[Tecnik1]

Following this thread over the year or so and implementing many ideas it also made me think of a new idea that I tried and am wondering if anyone else has grounded there TP link FMC,s metal frame closest to the server or dac using one of the case screws.

After a few days things seem to be a little clearer.

[soares]

On 12/26/2019 at 3:33 PM, Albrecht said:

I can say that in my system, after listening, - that the opticalModule on the ultraRendu side is a significant improvement over two TP-Link MC200cms. I have been using linear power supplies with each FMC. I am glad that I bought one SOnore OpticalModule. I am still not completely certain when/if I am going to get an opticalRendu, - but I will likely replace the TP-Link FMC "sender" if I replace the ultraRendu with the optical module.

 

I absolutely agree in what concerns the oM!