Uptone Regen and your DAC. What DAC do you use?

[wwaldmanfan]

The Wireworld 0.3M USB measures 8-7/8" between the end-plugs

 

 

 

Comparing my 0.7 Supra to the 0.3 WW Ultraviolet 7, (same price point), in a straight computer-to-DAC USB shoot-out (playing Audirvana 2.1 on my desktop headphone rig below), the Supra sounds slightly better.

[Jud]

That tells me I want to keep my Clearlink. I preferred the AQ Carbon and Forest to the Wireworld; the AQ Coffee to the Carbon, and the Clearlink by a country mile to the Coffee.

[Jim Sylva]

Madisound in Wisconsin shows the Supra USB on their site.

One and all, thank you for your suggestions. I ordered a Supra USB cable from Madisound Speaker Store this morning. Thanks audio.bill.

[HumanMedia]

That tells me I want to keep my Clearlink. I preferred the AQ Carbon and Forest to the Wireworld; the AQ Coffee to the Carbon, and the Clearlink by a country mile to the Coffee.

 

Hmmm a custom built very short Mapleshade Clearlink between Regen and DAC might also be an option for those that must have a cable connection.

 

I might also be in the camp of not being able to use a solid connector. Have to wait until my Regen arrives next month to find out.

 

Edit: just emailed Mapleshade to see if they can do a custom 1ft/30cm version of the Clearlink Plus. Probably not, but worth asking.

[wwaldmanfan]

That tells me I want to keep my Clearlink. I preferred the AQ Carbon and Forest to the Wireworld; the AQ Coffee to the Carbon, and the Clearlink by a country mile to the Coffee.

 

Having taken this thread completely off-topic, I'll reiterate what I have reported perviously.

Direct MBP to NAD M51 USB, in order of preference:

 

1. Kimber Kable Cu (ferrules removed) $60

2. Supra $47

3. Kimber Kable Ag $165

4. Belkin Pro $17

5. Wireworld Ultraviolet $43

6. Elijah Audio Isolate Cu $180

[pl_svn]

1. Kimber Kable Cu (ferrules removed) $60

2. Supra $47

3. Kimber Kable Ag $165

4. Belkin Pro $17

5. Wireworld Ultraviolet $43

6. Elijah Audio Isolate Cu $180

 

it definitely is all very subjective: being all my interconnects Kimber I also picked, at first, a Kimber Cu USB cable and... could never like it: to me it is "dull" compared to anything else (even cheap ones)

 

tried it once more when I got the Regen and confirmed my old impression

 

must say, though, I did not remove the ferrites

[Jud]

Hmmm a custom built very short Mapleshade Clearlink between Regen and DAC might also be an option for those that must have a cable connection.

 

I might also be in the camp of not being able to use a solid connector. Have to wait until my Regen arrives next month to find out.

 

Edit: just emailed Mapleshade to see if they can do a custom 1ft/30cm version of the Clearlink Plus. Probably not, but worth asking.

 

Just to clarify, I do use the solid adapter. Right now I'm using the Corning between my MBP and Regen Green, but plan to return to the Clearlink in that role when the Amber arrives.

[Nes]

First post here...

 

Has anyone tried the REGEN with a Schiit Bifrost UBER USB or a Gungnir? Was wondering about how much difference it makes despite Schiit claiming they have taken many precautions to do USB "correctly".

 

Thanks.

 

Also, does anyone know if the Bifrost USB uses the USB supplied power or not? I.e. when using an LPS such as the HD-Plex is it better to use the 9V or 12V port?

 

Also thanks!

[Daudio]

Hmmm a custom built very short Mapleshade Clearlink between Regen and DAC might also be an option ...

Edit: just emailed Mapleshade to see if they can do a custom 1ft/30cm version of the Clearlink Plus. Probably not, but worth asking.

 

I already asked, and they politely refused. I don't recall the exact explanation, but they had technical reasons for not making anything shorter then their current minimum length USB cable.

 

edit: Here is the reply I got from Mapleshade back on 12/02/13:

"If we made a 1/2 m USB, you would hate the sound of it: a 1/2 m digital cable sounds MUCH worse than a 1 m. By our listening experiments, optimum length is between 1 and 2 m. If you're interested in more detail on our experiments and findings, feel free to call me at 410 867-7543.

Pierre"

[HumanMedia]

it definitely is all very subjective: being all my interconnects Kimber I also picked, at first, a Kimber Cu USB cable and... could never like it: to me it is "dull" compared to anything else (even cheap ones)

 

tried it once more when I got the Regen and confirmed my old impression

 

must say, though, I did not remove the ferrites

 

It would be great to know what you think of the Kimber with the ferrites removed (with Regen). If you get a chance can you try it?

[One and a half]

This thread has turned into a discussion on what USB cables to use, varying from the main topic of what DACs are working with the Regen. Obviously the choice of cables is the same as it ever was, can we get back on track on listening impressions? Just a thought.

[HumanMedia]

Here is the reply I got from Mapleshade back on 12/02/13:

 

Big thanks for this info.

[pl_svn]

This thread has turned into a discussion on what USB cables to use, varying from the main topic of what DACs are working with the Regen. Obviously the choice of cables is the same as it ever was, can we get back on track on listening impressions?

 

guess we will as soon as more Regens are shipped

[Jud]

I already asked, and they politely refused. I don't recall the exact explanation, but they had technical reasons for not making anything shorter then their current minimum length USB cable.

 

edit: Here is the reply I got from Mapleshade back on 12/02/13:

"If we made a 1/2 m USB, you would hate the sound of it: a 1/2 m digital cable sounds MUCH worse than a 1 m. By our listening experiments, optimum length is between 1 and 2 m. If you're interested in more detail on our experiments and findings, feel free to call me at 410 867-7543.

Pierre"

 

I tried a setup with the Corning from computer to Regen and Clearlink from Regen to DAC. Not as good as Corning and solid adapter supplied with Regen. There's no cable like no cable!

[Jud]

This thread has turned into a discussion on what USB cables to use, varying from the main topic of what DACs are working with the Regen. Obviously the choice of cables is the same as it ever was, can we get back on track on listening impressions? Just a thought.

 

So far just about all USB DACs seem to be. I'll be interested to see if George (exa) gets a chance to test the Regen and JS-2, and what the results are.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Would this Regen do "anything" for current model Marantz Dacs that state they isolate the usb noise?

Below is marketing blurb about the HD-DAC1, but i believe they use the same "isolation circutiry" in all their current dacs (SA8005,PMxx5,NA8005, etc..)

 

------

 

Marantz also built-in extended isolation around the USB-B input to eliminate high frequency noise generated by any computer connected to the HD-DAC1. This ultra-high quality dedicated DAC/Headphone Amplifier creates simply amazing sound because it uses Current Feedback amplification technologies from Marantz' high-end Premium 11 Series. Marantz even included a jitter remover and Dual Clock for extreme accuracy.

 

------

Marantz engineers have fine-tuned the player’s reproduction of musical details and spatial expression by using thorough isolation and filtering to shut out noise that enters sound from a PC.

[pl_svn]

It would be great to know what you think of the Kimber with the ferrites removed (with Regen). If you get a chance can you try it?

 

at some point I will, promised.

won't do it now as I just got, finally, rid of a nasty ground loop and am scared of touching any connection

[jtwrace]

I'll be interested to see if George (exa) gets a chance to test the Regen and JS-2, and what the results are.

 

Does he have them to try?

[Jud]

Does he have them to try?

 

Don't know, that's why I said "if he gets a chance." He asked if someone could lend them to him for a short time.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

I guess since no one responded what the regen could do for the marantz dacs that state they isolate pc usb issues already, that the regen wouldn't do much for the marantz dacs. Also, i am curious if this is such a great idea why don't all dac manufactures implement such circuitry on their input? I hope you have a patent (grin) or is that what you mean by shortlived, that dac manufacturers will be employing the concept in future dacs and that it is not able to be patented. I personally would prefer to sell my existing dac that didn't have the isolation circuitry and buy a new dac that had the isolation circuitry rather than have 100 boxes and wires dangling around.

[jtwrace]

Don't know, that's why I said "if he gets a chance." He asked if someone could lend them to him for a short time.

 

I see.

[HumanMedia]

This thread has turned into a discussion on what USB cables to use, varying from the main topic of what DACs are working with the Regen. Obviously the choice of cables is the same as it ever was, can we get back on track on listening impressions? Just a thought.

 

There is a separate 'Listening Impressions' thread, but that has gone quiet too (between Regen shipments).

Whilst there is a separate USB cable thread, I am happy to hear what USB cables have a synergy with the Regen, and most particularly the Regen to DAC link. Whilst it has been wisely stated that no cable is the best cable, there are physical limitations to using the hard adapter connection for quite a few of us. My issue is that my DAC is small, relatively light and easily tips over with cable weight and has room restrictions at the rear.

 

So if no cable is the best, what is the best of the cable connection options between Regen and DAC?

The overiding factor seems to be length of cable and the shorter the better. But if the cable materials/construction is not ideal or out-of-spec does it override the advantages of being short? (e.g. Supra 0.7m beats the Ultraviolet 0.3m)

 

I believe the nature of the USB cabling is that impedance problems are minimal if the length is less than 12cm, but compound as the cable length increases. So will the Kimber 0.5m (without ferrites) have an advantage over a Supra 0.7m? Or does the superior construction of the Supra still give it the advantage?

 

Going shorter still, there are a couple of cheap chinese USB cables at around .15m and .2m for a few dollars. I am sure they are not well specced, but does their shortness override this? Could really short cheap cables be the next best thing to a hard adapter connection? and outperform slightly longer better specced cables?

 

Any more feedback about the Regen to DAC USB connection is hugely appreciated (at least by me).

[JohnSwenson]

I guess since no one responded what the regen could do for the marantz dacs that state they isolate pc usb issues already, that the regen wouldn't do much for the marantz dacs. Also, i am curious if this is such a great idea why don't all dac manufactures implement such circuitry on their input? I hope you have a patent (grin) or is that what you mean by shortlived, that dac manufacturers will be employing the concept in future dacs and that it is not able to be patented. I personally would prefer to sell my existing dac that didn't have the isolation circuitry and buy a new dac that had the isolation circuitry rather than have 100 boxes and wires dangling around.

 

Hi Mike,

I've written several posts in other REGEN threads about what I think is going on. And no it is NOT just about isolation. The regen does not do any isolation, it is all about the circuitry in the DAC generating it own noise, the worse the quality of the USB signal, the worse the noise generated by it's own circuitry. That's what the REGEN does, it generates its own signal right at the DAC. I have written several posts recently how this noise tends to make it right through attempts at isolation. So just using normal "isolation" techniques doesn't work for this noise.

 

So it is highly likely that any DAC you can come up with is still going to be improved by the REGEN. No one I know of has yet really figured out how to block this noise.

 

John S.

[jiminlogansquare]

I guess since no one responded what the regen could do for the marantz dacs that state they isolate pc usb issues already, that the regen wouldn't do much for the marantz dacs. Also, i am curious if this is such a great idea why don't all dac manufactures implement such circuitry on their input? I hope you have a patent (grin) or is that what you mean by shortlived, that dac manufacturers will be employing the concept in future dacs and that it is not able to be patented. I personally would prefer to sell my existing dac that didn't have the isolation circuitry and buy a new dac that had the isolation circuitry rather than have 100 boxes and wires dangling around.

 

Am I missing something or is this orthogonal to what the Regen does? My understanding is that it is NOT a filter or isolation circuit. Instead, it regenerates the digital stream from the computer to make it easier for the DAC to process, end of story. When the DAC is working hard, it generates its own source of noise, independent from noise arising within the circuitry of the computer. Sure, try to block out that stuff, but the Regen is not targeting that stuff. Anyway, I am not an engineer and am only trying to distill what I think I am reading in these forums.

 

Edit: John's explanatory post showed up while I was typing the above.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Hi Mike,

I've written several posts in other REGEN threads about what I think is going on. And no it is NOT just about isolation. The regen does not do any isolation, it is all about the circuitry in the DAC generating it own noise, the worse the quality of the USB signal, the worse the noise generated by it's own circuitry. That's what the REGEN does, it generates its own signal right at the DAC. I have written several posts recently how this noise tends to make it right through attempts at isolation. So just using normal "isolation" techniques doesn't work for this noise.

 

So it is highly likely that any DAC you can come up with is still going to be improved by the REGEN. No one I know of has yet really figured out how to block this noise.

 

John S.

 

COOL, thanks for the post! So did you patent it? I hope so....

So are you saying it is not possible to create an isolated input circuit within the dac employing your circuitry? If you can figure that out and patent it and sell licensing agreements to the dac manufacturers you can retire (wink).