UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[4est]

???

One simply puts the Regen at the USB>SPDIF USB port as you would with a DAC. This is SPDIF vs I2S (most DACs use I2S internally), the Regen should be of benefit to both. SPDIF even more perhaps because the combined signals? I really do not know what requires more work. FWIW, I can hear the difference on the three different USB>I2S devices I have tried (two are galvanically isolated btw).

Impedance matching. (Have a look at some of John's or Alex's summaries, I think the more detailed ones are available at the UpTone website.)

 

Edit: Think about the fact that it's been pretty uniformly reported that the direct solid adapter connection works better than any length of USB cable.

[Jud]

???

One simply puts the Regen at the USB>SPDIF USB port as you would with a DAC. This is SPDIF vs I2S (most DACs use I2S internally), the Regen should be of benefit to both. SPDIF even more perhaps because the combined signals? I really do not know what requires more work. FWIW, I can hear the difference on the three different USB>I2S devices I have tried (two are galvanically isolated btw).

 

Yes, you will hear a difference. As I wrote:

 

Yes, there is some benefit

 

However:

 

Here's a snippet from John Swenson's tech corner at UpTone:

 

Because it uses clean power and a low jitter clock the output of the HUB has low noise and low jitter. By making sure the impedances are good and the REGEN is as close as possible to the DAC the rise/fall times have very small degradation.

 

which is why I also noted,

 

perhaps not as much as directly into the DAC, particularly with the solid adapter.

[4est]

Jud,

 

I said:"I cannot think of a reason why it would not help as much, or even more so- to the limit of the unit's capabilities."

 

Although I agree for the most part, you are being assumptive, and conflating USB issues with SPDIF issues using "as close to the DAC as possible.". The DAC does not use the Regen clock for conversion, but USB communication. Your statements make it seem as if the Regen does something different in a USB DAC vs a USB>SPDIF/I2S converter, when I am fairly sure it does the exact same thing. Your DAC just has the I2S converter built in, hence my saying this is USB>I2S vs USB>SPDIF. Oh, and SPDIF can be directly connected as well. I went without a SPDIF cable for years.

[wisnon]

The USB/SPdif converter have its own PHY and receiver chips. The Regen would keep high SI and so the new noise creted by the PHY in the converter would be low and this signal would be converted to Spdif format for input to the Dac Spdif receiver, which has no packet noise issues (though it will have Spdif specific issues). Thus you dont compound problems by having (lots of) packet noise recreated in the converter to be passed on to Spdif. Winner, winner chicken dinner as my pal would say.

[4est]

Yep!

The USB/SPdif converter have its own PHY and receiver chips. The Regen would keep high SI and so the new noise creted by the PHY in the converter would be low and this signal would be converted to Spdif format for input to the Dac Spdif receiver, which has no packet noise issues (though it will have Spdif specific issues). Thus you dont compound problems by having (lots of) packet noise recreated in the converter to be passed on to Spdif. Winner, winner chicken dinner as my pal would say.

[Jud]

Jud,

 

I said:"I cannot think of a reason why it would not help as much, or even more so- to the limit of the unit's capabilities."

 

Although I agree for the most part, you are being assumptive, and conflating USB issues with SPDIF issues using "as close to the DAC as possible.". The DAC does not use the Regen clock for conversion, but USB communication. Your statements make it seem as if the Regen does something different in a USB DAC vs a USB>SPDIF/I2S converter, when I am fairly sure it does the exact same thing. Your DAC just has the I2S converter built in, hence my saying this is USB>I2S vs USB>SPDIF. Oh, and SPDIF can be directly connected as well. I went without a SPDIF cable for years.

 

Entirely possible - you know more about this stuff than I do. Let's all go have chicken dinner!

[Forehaven]

Done several searches with no luck. Has anyone compared this Regen to iFi's USB/Gemini combo? This is with an iFi Micro dsd.

 

Thanks

Chris

[Duke40]

Done several searches with no luck. Has anyone compared this Regen to iFi's USB/Gemini combo? This is with an iFi Micro dsd.

 

Thanks

Chris

 

Chris, I did not have a iFi USB, but did have some of there other products (Mercury, Gemini, iPurifier).

 

iFi makes some excellent gear, the build quality is outstanding ... though I found the benefits of the USB Regen were much more evident, more significant.

 

I tried the following combinations (I have the Vaunix USB Hub, not the iFi USB, though they are both at similar price points and build quality) ... between MacBook/iPad and my DAC .... they are rated with 1 being the best result.

 

1) Vaunix > USB Regen

2) Mercury > iPurifier > Vaunix > Gemini > USB Regen

3) Mercury > Vaunix > Gemini > USB Regen

 

Hope that helps (not the exact combination you were after feedback for, though hopefully it gives some insight).

[eligeorgia]

Chris, I did not have a iFi USB, but did have some of there other products (Mercury, Gemini, iPurifier).

 

iFi makes some excellent gear, the build quality is outstanding ... though I found the benefits of the USB Regen were much more evident, more significant.

 

I tried the following combinations (I have the Vaunix USB Hub, not the iFi USB, though they are both at similar price points and build quality) ... between MacBook/iPad and my DAC .... they are rated with 1 being the best result.

 

1) Vaunix > USB Regen

2) Mercury > iPurifier > Vaunix > Gemini > USB Regen

3) Mercury > Vaunix > Gemini > USB Regen

 

Hope that helps (not the exact combination you were after feedback for, though hopefully it gives some insight).

 

Thanks for this comparison info.

 

Is your DAC an iFi Micro iDSD?

 

And did you A/B compare SQ with and without the USB hub, just straight from computer to Regen to DAC?

[Duke40]

Thanks for this comparison info.

 

Is your DAC an iFi Micro iDSD?

 

And did you A/B compare SQ with and without the USB hub, just straight from computer to Regen to DAC?

 

 

My testing was mainly on my headphone DAC/AMP ... an Auralic Gemini 2000 where I do most of my listening these days during the week. The only other DAC I have is a Benchmark DAC1 Pre for my speaker rig (for during the day on weekends, I am trying to be a good neighbour).

 

The very positive effects of the USB Regen were similar with both DAC's.

 

 

RE "And did you A/B compare SQ with and without the USB hub, just straight from computer to Regen to DAC?"

 

Yes ... tried A/B with & without the hub ... for my speaker rig (Benchmark DAC1 Pre for DAC) it did not really make much improvement adding the hub ... I had to do critical listening to discern a very small positive effect... though I do not do as much listening on my speaker rig these days.

Yet the effect of the USB Regen on the speaker rig was immediate ... no critical listening necessary to enjoy the benefits.

 

 

Something weird happened on my headphone rig when I put the USB hub behind the Regen ... I got the best soundstaging & imaging that I have ever heard from a headphone rig. It made my Audeze LCD-3F gain the imaging/soundstaging qualities of the Sennheiser HD800 that I used to own. Not quite the depth of the HD800 ... though the soundstaging width/height & imaging is now just superb. Plus it makes the sound feel like it is coming from outside my head when listening to headphones ... this helps resolve the one thing I dislike about headphone listening, the feeling that soundstage is within your head. Audeze improved the LCD3 by adding Fazors ... and this was like Fazor Signature Edition (two to three times the impact that Fazors had on Soundstaging/Imaging).

 

Anyway, my hub/REGEN combo seems to have this wonderful synergy (I don't know why technically) ... though apart from the imaging/soundstaging being somehow boosted/improved by my hub ... all the other sound quality improvements are really coming from the REGEN. If I had to break the sound quality improvements down for this combo, I would say 10% due to my expensive USB hub .... 90% due to the USB Regen.

 

Though that extra gain caused by the hub is worth it too me for my headphone listening.

The Vaunix got me to tolerate and even like USB ... the REGEN got me to love it.

 

I have tried a number of USB cables and USB tweaks ... if I had just one choice of anything ... immediately a decision is made ... it is the Regen... no contest. If I had a 2nd choice of something to keep, it is my hub. Hope that helps.

[Forehaven]

Thank you Duke40 for sharing your experience/experiments

 

'iFi makes some excellent gear, the build quality is outstanding ... though I found the benefits of the USB Regen were much more evident, more significant.'

 

Agree about the build quality, the alum casing is great. The Regen...nothing special to look at. But of course, sound quality always takes precedent over looks lol

I hope someone whose compared these two products might chime in.

 

Either way, the Regen is a cool product design.

[beerandmusic]

Thank you Duke40 for sharing your experience/experiments

 

'iFi makes some excellent gear, the build quality is outstanding ... though I found the benefits of the USB Regen were much more evident, more significant.'

 

Agree about the build quality, the alum casing is great. The Regen...nothing special to look at. But of course, sound quality always takes precedent over looks lol

I hope someone whose compared these two products might chime in.

 

Either way, the Regen is a cool product design.

Just curious, your signature says ifi dsd dac, but not whether it is a nano or micro? Did you play with both nano and micro?

Hoping you would do this poll?

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/what-do-you-think-would-sound-better-24682/

[Forehaven]

I have the Micro, sorry I didn't audition the Nano so no idea.

 

Chris

[JohanS]

Well, my dad came down for a visit and thought I'd let him listen (audiophile for 40 yrs) as we usually do. I didn't tell him what I was changing or doing. All I said was "tell me what you hear". We started out with the REGEN and then I removed it. Needless to say he went back home on the airplane with my REGEN. :-( Can't wait for my amber to arrive!

? That's 'lost' for a good reason! Luckily nothing got broken ;-)

[YashN]

Hehe, smart dad. I guess the next time you invite him over to listen to the Amber Regen, he takes that one home as well.

[Jud]

Hehe, smart dad. I guess the next time you invite him over to listen to the Amber Regen, he takes that one home as well.

 

Uh-uh, smart Jason: He gets the "upgrade" for $45.

[toddrhodes]

I finally pulled the trigger and am in the boat for a Regen to head my way in July. Can't wait to A/B it with the Toslink I'm using now which I honestly really like.

[jtwrace]

Uh-uh, smart Jason: He gets the "upgrade" for $45.

 

Actually for $0. I'll do it for him of course. ?

[Rufus McDufus]

Anyone had the opportunity to try the Regen with a Melco N1A or N1Z? I have an N1A into a Devialet 200 and I'm looking for a cost-effective upgrade to my Chord Silver Plus USB cable. The Regen gives the intriguing possibility of giving a decent improvement of a 'budget' cable as opposed to splashing out on a more expensive one.

My fear with the Regen is that the Melco is already optimised for clocking/jitter so the benefits may not be so significant. I guess the lower impedance/distance of the Regen to the DAC is going to be positive though. If a USB data stream is already pretty good jitter/clocking-wise will the Regen improve it over and above a poorer quality stream, or is it (as I'm assuming) going to regenerate the stream regardless of the quality of the input?

[AlainGr]

Well, my dad came down for a visit and thought I'd let him listen (audiophile for 40 yrs) as we usually do. I didn't tell him what I was changing or doing. All I said was "tell me what you hear". We started out with the REGEN and then I removed it. Needless to say he went back home on the airplane with my REGEN. :-( Can't wait for my amber to arrive!

+1

[AlainGr]

My dad was pretty much my favorite guy on earth while he was alive, so right now I'm a big fan of you.

+1

[jiminlogansquare]

My Regen shipped today. I have some thoughts about music I want to listen to with the Regen to test its capabilities (things like flute choirs and strings that can get grainy). What are some specific recordings that Regen users have found to be enhanced by their Regen? Maybe just some categories of music and types of "stressors" to good sound reproduction that the Regen handles well. Want to put it through its paces and therefore would like to spend a few hours training my ears to listen to these recordings on my system before the Regen is installed. Thanks, folks!

[Daudio]

... music I want to listen to with the Regen to test its capabilities ... Maybe just some categories of music ... that the Regen handles well.

 

I would suggest music that has a number of different instruments, as I found the Regen to let me effortlessly tell one from another, as each one became so clearly 'itself'.

[kennyb123]

I would suggest music...

 

I just go with music I love as I find more is revealed to me when I'm not looking too hard.

[Theobetley]

Try Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet on Mercury. I have had this album for a long time and it comes close to being edgy. Not so so with the Regen.

 

My Regen shipped today. I have some thoughts about music I want to listen to with the Regen to test its capabilities (things like flute choirs and strings that can get grainy). What are some specific recordings that Regen users have found to be enhanced by their Regen? Maybe just some categories of music and types of "stressors" to good sound reproduction that the Regen handles well. Want to put it through its paces and therefore would like to spend a few hours training my ears to listen to these recordings on my system before the Regen is installed. Thanks, folks!