UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[jabbr]

It is quite strange to me that very ordinary electrical properties like impedance and resistance are accepted as changing the sound if they come packaged in a small box, e.g. the Regen. But let these very same well recognized properties be characteristics of "just a wire" (e.g., thin ground wires with relatively high resistance in the Corning or Mapleshade USB cables), and suddenly they can no longer change the sound of the circuit they are part of.

 

This suspension of the laws of electricity/physics in the name of "objectivity" is remarkable.

 

Well, the resistors added to the regen cost $0.40. USB cable impedance is specified to be 90 ohms and there are inexpensive cables which meet spec. The regen is more than simply a few resistors and proper impedance. The point is probably that multi-hundred or thousand dollar USB cables don't contain any magic that straightforward electrical components cannot, at the very least, replicate. Likewise for fancy Ethernet cables. Ever check out the price of fiberoptic -- not so bad in context.

[Jud]

Well, the resistors added to the regen cost $0.40. USB cable impedance is specified to be 90 ohms and there are inexpensive cables which meet spec. The regen is more than simply a few resistors and proper impedance. The point is probably that multi-hundred or thousand dollar USB cables don't contain any magic that straightforward electrical components cannot, at the very least, replicate. Likewise for fancy Ethernet cables. Ever check out the price of fiberoptic -- not so bad in context.

 

No disagreement here. Even with all the various sorts of overhead - dealer networks, multiple employee salaries and benefits for the "big boys," research (priced sophisticated measurement equipment for stuff like jitter?), etc., I'm reasonably sure a goodly number of prices are of the "what the market will bear" variety. John Swenson also said something that's stuck with me regarding some manufacturers working by trial and error not always being reliably correct about what's causing their products to sound better or worse. This can result in lots of research iterations, and in costs for parts and materials the manufacturer honestly thinks are important but really are not. And of course there is the out and out snake oil, though in line with what I said earlier in the thread, I think uniform skepticism is no better at detecting this than uniform belief is in finding what works.

[AnotherSpin]

Today I got much talked about Supra USB which I ordered for future use with Amber Regen. Meanwhile I am trying it on a place of my regular Nordost Blue Heaven in combination with Green Regen. Well, first impression about Supra are not so positive. In comparison with Blue Heaven (which, true, cost several times more) it gives rather bland sound, less detailed, slightly smeared and dull. Overall it is quite pleasant, but not much involving. Maybe it need time for burn-in and anyway I will wait to try it with Amber later.

 

Update on Supra: After initial night of listening (mac mini with updated Yosemite on ssd, HQPlayer > Supra > Regen > Schiit Loki) when I was not so happy with first time installed Supra, I did two things. First, I put files to play non-stop for the whole night (amp out). Second, in the morning I restarted mac mini from a 16GB sd card with Mavericks (HQP as player, but not the very last one, didn't upgrade yet). Well, this wasn't clean experiment, two different change factors (or three) in simultaneous action. I do not know was it an impact from one, another, or both, but the sound is much better. Much less smeared and colored. More transparent and clean. Far from perfect yet, but big step in positive direction.

[mordo]

A few days ago I arrived home the USB Regen ..... just wonderful.

TRFA most air tools and wider soundstage are its characteristics.

I did not think he could improve the sound result.

Having purchased one REGEN of the first, I already requested the upgrade to the Regen V2 (I know it was wrong because I had to wait 10 June to make order) .... I want to give it a try putting two regen in series.

Putting more master clock in series ottengonomigliorie the sound message and I wonder if this can happen even with more regen ..... we'll see.

greetings

Lorenzo

[rickca]

I've already posted my enthusiastic impressions of using the REGEN with my Ayre QB-9 DSD. Today I tested it on my other system which has a Berkeley Alpha USB.

 

The same good things happen, but it's a little more subtle. You still get improved focus and purity of instrument tone. The REGEN kind of takes you from a relatively homogeneous sound to something with more life and an amped up contrast ratio.

 

I'm not surprised that the impact of the REGEN doesn't hit you in the face as much in a configuration with a USB-SPDIF converter. The Berkeley Alpha USB has a high degree of isolation between the USB input and the output master clocks/line drivers.

 

One interesting thing. The Ayre has a dedicated power supply for the USB circuitry, while the Berkeley Alpha USB uses 5v USB bus power for the USB receiver and processing. You can tell. The REGEN stays stone cold with the Ayre, but it gets a little warm with the Berkeley Alpha USB.

[tranz]

I've already posted my enthusiastic impressions of using the REGEN with my Ayre QB-9 DSD. Today I tested it on my other system which has a Berkeley Alpha USB.

 

The same good things happen, but it's a little more subtle. You still get improved focus and purity of instrument tone. The REGEN kind of takes you from a relatively homogeneous sound to something with more life and an amped up contrast ratio.

 

I'm not surprised that the impact of the REGEN doesn't hit you in the face as much in a configuration with a USB-SPDIF converter. The Berkeley Alpha USB has a high degree of isolation between the USB input and the output master clocks/line drivers.

 

One interesting thing. The Ayre has a dedicated power supply for the USB circuitry, while the Berkeley Alpha USB uses 5v USB bus power for the USB receiver and processing. You can tell. The REGEN stays stone cold with the Ayre, but it gets a little warm with the Berkeley Alpha USB.

 

Thanks for sharing. I also use the Berkeley, so was curious about the impact. I feed it a cleansed LPSU 5v and an IFI USB Power/Gemini though, so I guess it might still be different.

 

Not surprised at the impact on the Ayre. That USB was the reason the Ayre was crossed off my list during DAC shopping, as it lost to a cheaper DAC with the Berkeley sitting in front of it. Glad to read this Regen helped.

[Blake]

Thanks for sharing.

 

+1

[AnotherSpin]

After ten days of listening Regen I would like to add my impressions.

 

First, I would like to join my voice with all those who confirmed improvement brought by Regen into their system. I got the same improved clarity, grain and noise decrease, better tone of instruments, more/new sounds from familiar recordings, better dynamics, improved overall musicality and enjoyment from listening.

 

Additionally to that, I found out:

- musical picture became "bigger", and separate instruments seem to be closer or subjectively "bigger" now;

- I can hear more on low volume with improved lows and highs;

- subjectively, slow music became "slower", fast became "faster";

- symphonic orchestra and opera communicated better, is more true and convincing than before;

 

Regen is very revealing for both good and bad recordings what may work against some not so well recorded material. It seems some usb cables fit better to Regen than others. Regen needs several burn-in days, at the very first listening sessions I heard some sublime aural pressure which seem to gone in a few days.

 

With Regen I hear differences in HQ Player settings much clearly than before. When I was trying to change some of HQP settings before Regen I was barely noticing a change if any, now it became much more apparent. Also Regen reveals bigger difference between running OS from ssd vs. sd card.

 

Thank you Alex and John!

[rickca]

Deleted by rickca

[kukiman]

While I am still waiting on receiving the amber next month, I would like to ask has anyone tried to use the exact same system hardware wise, but uses different playback software or OS and found their listening impression to improve or degrade or remains entirely the same after using he REGEN?

[tboooe]

Has anyone tried comparing the Regen + standard USB output versus Audiophile USB card like PPang or JCat? I am trying to figure out if these USB cards have any additional benefit if I already have the Regen.

 

Thank you!

[Freann]

@kukiman The Regen’s function is not dependent on OS or music player. If you hear an improvement you will do so under any OS or player.

[kukiman]

Thanks Freann! I meant, if the regen may make all the software tweaks no longer necessary... Sorry I made it sound so complicated.. If it does I can stop trying so hard to jump around mac, Linux, or using different kind of softwares... That's all :-P

[jabbr]

It is enough of an improvement that I am just sitting and listening to music. Getting used to the system. There are so many variables and potential tweaks that it hand be very hard to know what is what. Once I get used to the sound on a wide range of music I will restart with variables -- install my PPA USB along with an iPower supply. I'm going to build a DSC1 and then DSC2. Maybe do some fiber optic Ethernet. OS tweaks -- not so much

[AnotherSpin]

While I am still waiting on receiving the amber next month, I would like to ask has anyone tried to use the exact same system hardware wise, but uses different playback software or OS and found their listening impression to improve or degrade or remains entirely the same after using he REGEN?

Some time ago I found out that when OS installed and run from SD card instead of internal ssd it improves the sound. With Regen this difference became more evident. This is one example from others. Regen is not a panacea for everything, it gives a significant improvement but not eliminates a need for other possible steps.

[Superdad]

Has anyone tried comparing the Regen + standard USB output versus Audiophile USB card like PPang or JCat? I am trying to figure out if these USB cards have any additional benefit if I already have the Regen.

 

Hi Tommy:

Jason reported getting a PM from someone with a SOtM USB card and a REGEN: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index34.html#post423918

I think there have been others as well.

[Solstice380]

I'll start by saying that I jumped on an early order for the original REGEN based on my satisfaction with the Uptone JS-2 and MMK Fan Kit. I am extremely satisfied with everything that the REGEN does for the SQ of USB, also. John has proven that he knows his way around circuit design AND is willing to discover and integrate info from measurements and listening along the way. Alex does very well riding herd on the biz and us, the voracious audio-nervosa market!

 

But, we all have to live in the real world. No electronic device is a Silver Bullet! It will do what it does at its own "less than perfect" efficiency. That may be 99.99%, but it's not perfect. So, I estimate, without question and going in, that cables and other upstream signal path items will still sound a little different and some equip might benefit less than others. The overwhelming response is a big thumbs up for the REGEN and differences in source equip and cables have been reported, as expected.

 

Do both if you can swing your wallet for it. Every little bit helps!

[jabbr]

Some time ago I found out that when OS installed and run from SD card instead of internal ssd it improves the sound. With Regen this difference became more evident. This is one example from others. Regen is not a panacea for everything, it gives a significant improvement but not eliminates a need for other possible steps.

 

 

Do you think this is true for your particular OS and motherboard/chipset or all OS's and all motherboards. What about different CPUs? What about different SSD controller chips? What about m.2?

[Jud]

Do you think this is true for your particular OS and motherboard/chipset or all OS's and all motherboards. What about different CPUs? What about different SSD controller chips? What about m.2?

 

Not for all. For Macs like mine where SD card is part of USB system it doesn't work so well. You want a setup where you can offload I/O from both SATA and USB.

[kukiman]

@jabbr Thanks man! That's exactly what I meant I am using optical Ethernet already but I guess it would be far less important as Regen! Lately I am using those low power tiny pc (powered by Lpsu) and I started off using win8.1. Then I switch over to Daphile, Ubuntu or MPD VOYAGE. Even though I learnt a lot of software skills along the way I don't really hear a lot more improvement in sound ;(

 

@Anotherspin Thanks! But to me that's exactly a hardware change while I am asking for software effect, but it's a great tip as well!

 

@Jud, I didn't know OS on ram is a better route! I would definitely give it a try, too for those Linux system most of them always started off over a USB stick and preload everything to ram anyways

[AnotherSpin]

Do you think this is true for your particular OS and motherboard/chipset or all OS's and all motherboards. What about different CPUs? What about different SSD controller chips? What about m.2?

You may want to check long thread here at CA on SD cards used to boot where people discuss their findings with different settings. BTW it was Superdad's idea!

[Jud]

 

@Jud, I didn't know OS on ram is a better route! I would definitely give it a try, too for those Linux system most of them always started off over a USB stick and preload everything to ram anyways

 

I've never tried OS on RAM, and didn't want to leave the impression I had. If you don't have a computer where the SD card is separate from the USB and SATA systems, there's been some speculation the brand new Minis that have SSDs on the PCIe bus might be good (but know that HQP likes RAM and CPU resources, which the Mini doesn't have a great deal of), though I haven't read of anyone who's tried one.

[Theobetley]

Here is a short blip on my ever evolving quest for a better power supply for the Regen. I was briefly using a LiFePO4 supply made up of 3 2000 ma cells in parallel in series with another set. Sounded better than the stock supply. I tried the Regen with an iFi power unit in front. So it is computer -> short usb -> iFi -> usb cable -> Regen. I liked it better with the iFi power thing out. But that freed up the iFi power supply (9V at 1 a). So I tried it directly into the Regen and this is best in my system. Also I have a 3.3 ohm resistor soldered into my usb cable feeding the Regen.

 

Has anybody tried the new 3 microvolt noise supply from iFi yet?

[DZetye]

I found that I get slightly better sound using a Audioquest Dragontail short USB cable with the Uptone supplied adapter instead of the short USB cable supplied with the Regen

[Superdad]

I found that I get slightly better sound using a Audioquest Dragontail short USB cable with the Uptone supplied adapter instead of the short USB cable supplied with the Regen

 

How are you doing that? The DragonTail is USB 'A' female to USB 'A' male. So for the output (DAC) side of the REGEN it is useless since DAC inputs are USB 'B.' And on the input side, the REGEN has a USB 'B' jack.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, I figured out that what you must be doing is using the solid A>B adapter into the DAC and putting the DragonTail between it and the output of the REGEN.

 

I think you all know that the 6" USB I provide was meant just in case the solid adapter could not be used. I freely admit that the short cable is a cheap one. There really are EXTREMELY few pre-made USB male/male A>B ultra-short cables available anywhere in the world. I am not on the scale of Audioquest to just order up a few thousand custom pieces, and hopefully most people don't have to use it anyway.

 

One alternative, though I have no idea if it sounds any better is this Belkin 6-inch Pro Series cable.