Why Apple?

[elcorso]

And Apple fanbois like Tom, bless their cotton socks, always manage to avoid the same pitfalls when discussing Microsoft products ?

The simple fact is that there are far more commercial programs of all different types available to Windows users than Apple users, as Macs are still currently only around 10% of the total PC market worldwide.

 

About the 12%, but please remember wisdom is not a privilege of the crowds...!

 

Bill Gates (Microsoft) is a wise man, when he invested US$ 100 million in Apple and at the same time implemented Mac Office he catapulted Apple profit. This 'small' inversion (for him) returned Gates more profits than US$ 1,000 million inversions in his own Microsoft...!

 

Roch

[kumakuma]

IF the standard Mac Mini that so many here rave about as being the best thing since sliced bread, is so bloody good , then why do people from the Industry like Alex C feel the need to markedly improve it's audio performance with aftermarket Linear PSUs, Fan filter PCBs, and other storage enhancements ? It's a hotbed of wideband noise in standard guise due to it's very compact construction and the real need to prevent overheating during intensive processing as a result.

Neither is it user friendly when it comes to repairs or upgrades, and usually needs to be returned to an Apple centre for repair. Neither are there anywhere near the number of 3rd party applications designed to work with it. A markedly superior Windows PC with additional spaces for internal cards can be built for the same cost, WITHOUT the need for volume discounts that Apple has available as a manufacturer.

A quick browse of Apple related forums also reveals it isn't nearly as reliable as many here claim it is.

AND, Macs still only account for around 10% of the total PC market !!

 

I haven't seen anyone raving about the Mac Mini as "the best thing since sliced bread".

 

I use Apple products become the computers run a better operating system (OS X) and there is a tight integration between Apple products. I have used every version of Windows since Windows 1.0 and, in my experience, Windows remains inferior to OS X.

[sandyk]

About the 12%, but please remember wisdom is not a privilege of the crowds...!

 

Bill Gates (Microsoft) is a wise man, when he invested US$ 100 million in Apple and at the same time implemented Mac Office he catapulted Apple profit. This 'small' inversion (for him) returned Gates more profits than US$ 1,000 million inversions in his own Microsoft...!

 

Roch

 

Roch

A standard Mac Mini is the previous Volkswagen "no frills" equivalent with cars.

Note also that Microsoft doesn't manufacture it's own Private Label PCs. It permits program input from software and hardware developers world wide , which Apple does to a much lesser extent. Apple is more of a ruthless money making machine after world dominance. Do we need more corporations like that ? We have already seen the demise of the corner shop and other family oriented institutions wiped out by greedy corporations. They don't give a stuff about anything but their bottom line.

Does it even support local manufacturers ?

[sandyk]

I have used every version of Windows since Windows 1.0 and, in my experience, Windows remains inferior to OS X.

 

That's your personal experience only, and if Macs were as good as you insist, they would be the dominant player worldwide, NOT Windows based products. I don't wish to be tied down to what some big corporation decides I should have in my PC. That's why I have an internal video card, an internal BluRay writer and an internal sound card which gives me the option of something better for audio than crappy motherboard Optical Out, or USB which needs expensive USB cables and external Linear low noise PSUs to extract a much higher level of performance from it. I can also play AND RECORD on BluRay media from my internal LG BR writer. I also have the option to use a different amount of internal RAM, and higher quality RAM too.

You stick with your Volkswagen if that meets your simple needs !

[kumakuma]

Roch

A standard Mac Mini is the previous Volkswagen "no frills" equivalent with cars.

Note also that Microsoft doesn't manufacture it's own Private Label PCs. It permits program input from software and hardware developers world wide , which Apple does to a much lesser extent. Apple is more of a ruthless money making machine after world dominance. Do we need more corporations like that ? We have already seen the demise of the corner shop and other family oriented institutions wiped out by greedy corporations. They don't give a stuff about anything but their bottom line.

Does it even support local manufacturers ?

 

Alex,

 

Don't worry about it. Apple will fail in their quest for world domination just like IBM and Microsoft did in the past. These things go in cycles. When I worked in the computer industry in the 90's, we called Microsoft the Deathstar and everyone hated and feared the boys from Redmond. The warm cuddly version of Microsoft you portray is a very recent invention.

 

KK

[elcorso]

Roch

A standard Mac Mini is the previous Volkswagen "no frills" equivalent with cars.

Note also that Microsoft doesn't manufacture it's own Private Label PCs. It permits program input from software and hardware developers world wide , which Apple does to a much lesser extent. Apple is more of a ruthless money making machine after world dominance. Do we need more corporations like that ? We have already seen the demise of the corner shop and other family oriented institutions wiped out by greedy corporations. They don't give a stuff about anything but their bottom line.

Does it even support local manufacturers ?

 

Yes Alex, I know all this BS.

 

But you have to see the face of the so many happy customers leaving an Apple Store with an Apple product in his white bag. They are happy even after they use it: Simple, good looking and fault free and of course the incredible OS.

 

The 'others', when they buy a Windows product, is because they believe they need it for his work. Most of them never had a Mac product, but they criticize Mac...

 

Since globalization almost all the products are made in another country. Even German Audi is building their A6 in China.

 

We need corporations that satisfy our needs, taste or whatever. Forget about "greedy corporations", ALL are greedy, unless they are non profit...

 

BTW, I have a "highly improved" Mac Mini, LPSU et al. Yesterday I was on a friend home listening to some music, the same listening gear, same music but an standard Mac Mini. The SQ was great from this "Volkswagen", believe me. It can be improved? Of course, but the improvements came expensive and in droplets. Please forget about "fan noise", etc., etc., nobody would hear it. Then what is the secret in Apple SQ? The OS X is a real time player, not so Windows.

 

Roch

[kumakuma]

That's your personal experience only, and if Macs were as good as you insist, they would be the dominant player worldwide, NOT Windows based products. I don't wish to be tied down to what some big corporation decides I should have in my PC. That's why I have an internal video card, an internal BluRay writer and an internal sound card which gives me the option of something better for audio than crappy motherboard Optical Out, or USB which needs expensive USB cables and external Linear low noise PSUs to extract a much higher level of performance from it. I can also play AND RECORD on BluRay media from my internal LG BR writer. I also have the option to use a different amount of internal RAM, and higher quality RAM too.

You stick with your Volkswagen if that meets your simple needs !

 

You realize, of course, that Apples makes other computers than the Mini don't you?

[sandyk]

[Please forget about "fan noise", etc., etc., nobody would hear it./QUOTE]

 

Roch

I am not talking about physical fan noise. I am talking about electrical noise from the fans due to motherboard PWM control with a typical 25kHz waveform that results in a fine veil over the audio. Perhaps you should try a Linear Fan controller like the design by John Swenson for Alex C ? A cheap SOtM Fan filter may also help there.

Was the rest of your friend's system as capable of revealing the differences as your own system is ?

As I said to Tom, my requirements from a PC are very different to that of a casual user.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

You realize, of course, that Apples makes other computers than the Mini don't you?

 

Of course, but you don't read much about them here, do you ?

They are designed more for professionals, with prices much higher than a typical high performing Windows machine as supplied to order via numerous vendors.

[Snowmonkey]

So what sounds better - a CAPS or a Mac?

[Jud]

So what sounds better - a CAPS or a Mac?

 

Depends on the CAPS and the Mac and the software (music and player))....

 

I use both Win and OS X for playback, and very much enjoy both. It's for non-music stuff that I find myself preferring Apple hardware and software. (I'm not a gamer - that would likely change things, though a console might be a better choice than either Mac or PC.)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snowmonkey]

Depends on the CAPS and the Mac and the software (music and player))....

Purrrcisely.

[speavler]

i searched best buy for 'CAPS' but didn't find any computers.

[Snowmonkey]

i searched best buy for 'CAPS' but didn't find any computers.

Computer Audiophile - C.A.P.S.

[speavler]

*whoosh*

[wgscott]

You realize, of course, that Apples makes other computers than the Mini don't you?

 

Heh.

[spdif-usb]

They do have drugs for the kind of psychotic paranoia your guys are showing - helps greatly to tame the unreasoned hostility.

 

It has also been found that today's most vociferous Apple Bashers are tomorrow's most fervent Apple Fans. Be prepared for when it happens to you, resistance is futile.

You seem to be in total confusion here. Let me please remind you that, in the iPhone 6 thread, I already pointed out that I don't hate Apple. There is no denying the fact Steve Jobs was indeed a genius among geniuses and a visionary to boot, but that doesn't mean I have ever worshipped him or the company he created. Instead, it just means that I have no problem acknowledging how absolutely brilliant the idea was to come up with product designs that can be both visually attractive to a certain group of people and, at the same time also, offering certain kinds of marketable (most notably via shrines, temples and a really very massive overdose of cheap talk on the internet) feature lists. It certainly doesn't mean that I am clueless about what kinds of feature lists can or can't be useful to me, or at which price I will consider buying them, and why. To me, electronics devices and software apps are just tools. If you really care to find out what the whole Apple vs Microsoft debate reminds me of, watch this:

 

[spdif-usb]

This is pretty typical. Most of the Apple bashers on this thread have never owned an Apple product and keep regurgitating various bits of misinformation that they have heard from someone else.

What's "pretty typical" is your assumption that I need to own the product to be able to know the product well enough. Most people don't know anything much about technology or science despite the fact they own, and have been owning for ages, more than several tech related products.

[One and a half]

One day OSX will have an ASIO implementation, and become a grown up OS for audio again.

[spdif-usb]

So what sounds better - a CAPS or a Mac?

Any computer that is fast enough to run foobar2000 bit perfectly will sound exactly the same, except if the DAC is not well isolated from the computer. The electric noise is not a problem with my Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Plus via USB, as I have tried various computer hardware configs, up to and including different motherboards, RAM, CPU, graphics hardware, power supplies, battery power, internal harddrives, external harddrives, external harddrive connection types, USB cables, WiFi on or off, and including various software players (JPlay, etc...). None of it has ever made even the slightest audible difference to me or anyone who has listened to my setup. That is, despite the fact it sounds remarkably transparent IMO, if not downright revealing. Trying to fix DAC problems by futzing around with the computer instead of replacing the DAC with a better one isn't going to fix DAC problems although, according to some people, adding a shrine or temple might help.

[Maldur]

What's "pretty typical" is your assumption that I need to own the product to be able to know the product well enough.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. So...

[sandyk]

Any computer that is fast enough to run foobar2000 bit perfectly will sound exactly the same

 

Since when has Foobar 2K ("The Swiss Army Knife') which was designed by a committee, been the Gold Standard for CD replay ?

[Jud]

Since when has Foobar 2K ("The Swiss Army Knife') which was designed by a committee, been the Gold Standard for CD replay ?

 

I'm thinking we've got better things to do with our time than engage in that old discussion.

[sandyk]

I'm thinking we've got better things to do with our time than engage in that old discussion.

 

Why ?

What's the difference between that, and having a preference for Audirvana Plus over iTunes, or XXHE or jPlay over other Windows software players such as jRiver ? At least it's not a continuation of the "Get Chris C." thread !

[4est]

If you look at my signature, you will see I am not a Mac fanboi, and I refuse to get into that argument. When I saw this paragraph it almost made me giggle. There is nothing inherently special about the MiniMax USB. If you cannot hear differences in those sources, it is most likely because this device you tout adds enough of its own signature to mask those changes-and not that there are none as you claim.

Any computer that is fast enough to run foobar2000 bit perfectly will sound exactly the same, except if the DAC is not well isolated from the computer. The electric noise is not a problem with my Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Plus via USB, as I have tried various computer hardware configs, up to and including different motherboards, RAM, CPU, graphics hardware, power supplies, battery power, internal harddrives, external harddrives, external harddrive connection types, USB cables, WiFi on or off, and including various software players (JPlay, etc...). None of it has ever made even the slightest audible difference to me or anyone who has listened to my setup. That is, despite the fact it sounds remarkably transparent IMO, if not downright revealing. Trying to fix DAC problems by futzing around with the computer instead of replacing the DAC with a better one isn't going to fix DAC problems although, according to some people, adding a shrine or temple might help.