Why Apple?

[Ajax]

@rchunter,

 

I'm sorry that this all went this way. These "Apple/Windows" (or PCM/DSD, do wires make a difference, or is this DAC better than that DAC) threads always bring out the old debates, most of which is just old fun since folks already know where this ends (as this one did).

 

You are not the cause of any of this and best to sort through and take the good and leave the snark behind.

 

John

 

+1

[wgscott]

Oh, come on, the snark is the best part.

[Ajax]

Oh, come on, the snark is the best part.

 

I don't mind the snark when its funny or clever, however, the continual "you said, he said" combined with attempts to personally attack and discredit others just gets boring.

 

IMO many of us (myself included) don't appreciate how much we are influenced by the marketing gurus (otherwise why would Beats and Nike be so successful). I know that some of us audiophiles feel that we are above all that in our purist pursuit of audio excellence but in reality we are not as demonstrated only too well by this thread.

 

With respect to the OP I have used both PCs (J River) and MAC (Audirvana) and got superb sound from both. I ended up with a Mac system simply because my family prefers MACs due their simplicity, connectivity and ease of networking - we have a family room mac mini, air laptops, iPads and iPhones and they all talk to each other seamlessly. We are not particularly IT literate and really value the excellent free support from our local apple retail store in Sydney. Service is superb.

[blownsi]

It's Windows 7 with an improved desktop experience and a new app launcher.

It really isn't very different from how things used to be at all.

 

And if you really hate the start screen that much, just wait for the next update.

They're adding the option for a more traditional start menu, and the ability to run metro apps in a window.

 

 

Somehow people got confused with the added option to run tablet apps on Windows 8 PCs, thinking that desktop apps were being replaced with tablet apps. It's totally optional.

 

 

Could you please elaborate on this or provide a link on just how to opt out of it? I've tried to live with Win8 for over a year and just loathe all of the "features" it's added.

[Cycleman]

IMO many of us (myself included) don't appreciate how much we are influenced by the marketing gurus (otherwise why would Beats and Nike be so successful). I know that some of us audiophiles feel that we are above all that in our purist pursuit of audio excellence but in reality we are not as demonstrated only too well by this thread.

 

With respect to the OP I have used both PCs (J River) and MAC (Audirvana) and got superb sound from both. I ended up with a Mac system simply because my family prefers MACs due their simplicity, connectivity and ease of networking - we have a family room mac mini, air laptops, iPads and iPhones and they all talk to each other seamlessly. We are not particularly IT literate and really value the excellent free support from our local apple retail store in Sydney. Service is superb.

 

In my work life, I analyze marketing -- how it works, its effects, et cetera.

 

And I'm well aware, outside of my work life, that many people -- often with good reason -- demonize the concept of marketing, hate being marketed to, et cetera.

 

However, good marketing, which often can be effective marketing, needs to contain a kernel of truth. In this context, part of how Apple has marketed its various devices -- computers, phones, tablets -- is by pointing to how (relatively) easy it is to connect them, network them, et cetera.

 

So that kind of marketing, which describes certain actual values, is likely one reason why "not particularly IT literate" like Ajax, or people who prefer to make IT as easy as possible, like me, don't mind having been marketed to by Apple, simply because their products often enough deliver on their promises.

 

And that's non-demon marketing, at least the way I see it.

 

Dave, who is going give a talk to a digital music service's sales and marketing people next week about digital video advertising and marketing and wonders what people here would want to tell a digital music service

[Jud]

Dave, who is going give a talk to a digital music service's sales and marketing people next week about digital video advertising and marketing and wonders what people here would want to tell a digital music service

 

Sound quality, ease of use, reasonably priced.

 

What, you expected something surprising? Nope, same ol' thing.

[Skeptic]

Could you please elaborate on this or provide a link on just how to opt out of it? I've tried to live with Win8 for over a year and just loathe all of the "features" it's added.

Well without specifying what "features" you dislike, it's difficult to say, unless you only meant the Start Screen.

 

These products both replace the start screen with the traditional Start Menu:

https://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

StartIsBack - real start menu for Windows 8 and Windows 8.1

 

I used Start8 on Windows 8.0 and it worked well.

With the improvements they made in 8.1 (particularly the new "small" tile size) I am happy with the Start Screen instead and don't use it any more.

[Paul R]

Dave, who is going give a talk to a digital music service's sales and marketing people next week about digital video advertising and marketing and wonders what people here would want to tell a digital music service

 

1. How does your service let me hear what I want, when I want, on any device I want, without incurring an outrageous bill on my cell phone or blowing my home internet cap. Why should I even have to worry about that issue with your service?

 

2. Will music I love occasionally just "disappear" from your service? Are you covering the backlist inventory as well as new releases?

 

2.1. What happens if you go out of business?

 

3. What is the danger of getting a virus or hacked in some way using your service?

 

4. How can I avoid or eliminate "buffering" or other problems with your service?

 

Unsatisfactory answers to the above questions are what keep me from depending upon subscription services, other than iTunes Match.

 

-Paul

[blownsi]

Well without specifying what "features" you dislike, it's difficult to say, unless you only meant the Start Screen.

 

These products both replace the start screen with the traditional Start Menu:

https://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

StartIsBack - real start menu for Windows 8 and Windows 8.1

 

I used Start8 on Windows 8.0 and it worked well.

With the improvements they made in 8.1 (particularly the new "small" tile size) I am happy with the Start Screen instead and don't use it any more.

 

How do I shut off the annoying swipe like functions where you must swoop the mouse right to left to bring up the right hand menu? How do you kill all those apps on the startup screen? How do you get it to just boot to the actual desktop instead of the app screen? How do you get it to actually do a real reboot instead of that odd quick boot which bypasses the bios? I'm sure there's a dozen other things that I just can't figure out. I've tried a few of the put start menu back in programs with no real love for any of them. I'll give Start8 a try. Put me in the camp of if I wanted a tablet instead of a laptop I would've bought one. I see no use for running apps, having a touchscreen or anything of the sort on my laptop. Honestly I think in the end I will just sell the $850 laptop on CL and consider it an expensive loss.

[Skeptic]

How do you kill all those apps on the startup screen?

Right-click > Uninstall

You can do it all in one go by control-clicking all the metro apps to select them, and then selecting uninstall.

 

How do you get it to just boot to the actual desktop instead of the app screen?

If your computer is up-to-date, and does not have a touchscreen, it should already be booting to the desktop.

 

Regardless, right-click the taskbar, select properties, and open the navigation tab.

This lets you enable the boot-to-desktop option and disable most of the hot-corners.

Start8 (and possibly Start Is Back?) will disable all of the hot-corners permanently.

 

How do you get it to actually do a real reboot instead of that odd quick boot which bypasses the bios?

A reboot is a full reboot.

It is shut down in Windows 8 that is not a "full" shutdown to enable faster boot times. This can be disabled, though I don't see why you would want to.

 

BIOS no longer exists, UEFI replaced it.

You may have the option to disable fast boot in the UEFI menu, though it probably depends on your system.

[blownsi]

Right-click > Uninstall

You can do it all in one go by control-clicking all the metro apps to select them, and then selecting uninstall.

 

If your computer is up-to-date, and does not have a touchscreen, it should already be booting to the desktop.

 

Regardless, right-click the taskbar, select properties, and open the navigation tab.

This lets you enable the boot-to-desktop option and disable most of the hot-corners.

Start8 (and possibly Start Is Back?) will disable all of the hot-corners permanently.

 

A reboot is a full reboot.

It is shut down in Windows 8 that is not a "full" shutdown to enable faster boot times. This can be disabled, though I don't see why you would want to.

 

BIOS no longer exists, UEFI replaced it.

You may have the option to disable fast boot in the UEFI menu, though it probably depends on your system.

 

Thank you very much... looks as though I have some tinkering to do over the weekend:)

[moko]

Wish you would check your information before posting or specify in far more detail exactly which Intel Macs you are referring to.

 

I have a mid-2009 Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro that runs Yosemite with no problems, but cannot run a Win OS higher than 7. Windows 8 was released in August 2012. That is 5 years and counting for OS X versions running on my Intel Mac, 3 years for Windows. This is the reverse of what you stated (all Intel Macs can run Win 8.1, but only the latest can run Yosemite).

 

I prefer Launchpad to the Win 8 start screen, simply because one allows you to immediately access your desktop and file manager, while the other must be worked around to accomplish that.

 

hi Jud….i wanted to let you know you can run windows 8.1 on your 2009 mac mini….im running it on my 2009 mid- mac mini….i just had to mod the plist to allow it.and i have bootcamp 5.0 running on it too….im on mountain lion….but thinking about installing yosemite….which do you like the best?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn0pEYtmKYg

[Jud]

hi Jud….i wanted to let you know you can run windows 8.1 on your 2009 mac mini….im running it on my 2009 mid- mac mini….i just had to mod the plist to allow it.and i have bootcamp 5.0 running on it too….im on mountain lion….but thinking about installing yosemite….which do you like the best?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn0pEYtmKYg

 

MBP rather than Mac Mini, though perhaps it can be done with the MBP as well.

 

I like Yosemite so far, but it's still in beta. You may want to put it on a separate partition and try it out first.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[moko]

Oh yea....sorry....but yes it can be done with any mac....just edit plist... Google It....oR i can post a linK

[sandab]

Sounds like an easy decision. For me, not having to deal with Windows is easy worth a few hundred dollars.

I have to agree. I don't even know how to set up a headless Windows computer (they can't use VNC out of the box, you need specialized RDP software they don't come with), or which freaking Windows license to buy. When I got Windows 7 for boot camp on my Mac Pro I asked a bunch of people, all self-proclaimed "experts" which variant to buy, and they all told me Home, and that there was no reason to buy Pro since it only added some obscure feature I didn't need. Bought Home (~$300 IIRC), installed it, and the bleating thing only used one of the two CPUs in the machine. The installer went bonkers because it could only install on drive 0. However, it happily lets you select drive 1, 2, or 3 but will fail to install (halfway through it will fail with a hex code you have to google to figure out what the problem is). Then when I finally get it installed the first thing it tells me is to go buy antivirus and firewall software. This reminded me why I don't touch Microsoft products. It's just headaches and problems. I buy computers to use them, not play IT or ops. I want to turn it on and start using it, not spend 7 hours struggling with broken OS installers or have it go to sleep when I unplug the monitor and keyboard.

[wgscott]

I hate Windows and Microsoft as well, but I bought and installed 8.1 without issue on Bootcamp on my mac mini, it runs headless fine (with a free VNC program that works with Apple's screen-sharing) and it uses all 8 processors. Academic edition: $70. (We use it for the kid's RC airplane simulation software).

 

I can't remember the name of the VNC program, but it one that is free and devoid of crapware and nagging.

 

Another option for headless control that will let you get to it from pretty much anything, including an iOS and Android, for free, is NoMachine

 

We live where sandabs come from.

[Paul R]

I have to agree. I don't even know how to set up a headless Windows computer (they can't use VNC out of the box, you need specialized RDP software they don't come with), or which freaking Windows license to buy. When I got Windows 7 for boot camp on my Mac Pro I asked a bunch of people, all self-proclaimed "experts" which variant to buy, and they all told me Home, and that there was no reason to buy Pro since it only added some obscure feature I didn't need. Bought Home (~$300 IIRC), installed it, and the bleating thing only used one of the two CPUs in the machine. The installer went bonkers because it could only install on drive 0. However, it happily lets you select drive 1, 2, or 3 but will fail to install (halfway through it will fail with a hex code you have to google to figure out what the problem is). Then when I finally get it installed the first thing it tells me is to go buy antivirus and firewall software. This reminded me why I don't touch Microsoft products. It's just headaches and problems. I buy computers to use them, not play IT or ops. I want to turn it on and start using it, not spend 7 hours struggling with broken OS installers or have it go to sleep when I unplug the monitor and keyboard.

 

Yes, with Windows, buying less than the pro version of any release seems to equate to a sharp pain in one's posterior. Microsoft Remote Desktop does an excellent job on a Mac or iOS device for connecting to Windows where remote desktop is allowed though.

 

What I usually find amusing though is how aggressively Windows Fanbois will come to the defense of Winders. The make the most virulent of MacTribesmen seem down right civilized by comparison!

 

The funny thing is that Winders is well suited for and very good when running some applications. Mainframe terminal emulator software for instance, is one application where Winders excells.

[sandyk]

What I usually find amusing though is how aggressively Windows Fanbois will come to the defense of Winders. The make the most virulent of MacTribesmen seem down right civilized by comparison!

 

What I usually find amusing though is how aggressively Mac Mini Fanbois will come to the defence of ALL Apple products . They make the most virulent of Windows Tribesmen seem down right civilized by comparison!

[Kelly]

For so long it was so cool to be a mac user. It was counter-culture and independent. You still see the apple stickers on the back of subarus and volkswagens. The ad campaigns for Apple with John Hodgeman as the PC and whoever-that-guy-was as the Mac pretty much sum up my reaction to apple: that they are smug and irritating. For a long time microsoft was seen as over-reaching and intrusive in people's lives because it seemed like you just had to use microsoft products. Apple was clever enough to make it cool and stylish to be stuck in their ecosystem. Do you like U2? I mean ... you do like U2 don't you?

[Paul R]

What I usually find amusing though is how aggressively Mac Mini Fanbois will come to the defence of ALL Apple products . They make the most virulent of Windows Tribesmen seem down right civilized by comparison!

 

Ahh- and here we have an example of a typical Winders affliction - HeadumStuckumUpus BaboobenButtus.

 

A powerful driver for people switching to Linux, MacOS, iPads, more powerful medication, etc.

[wgscott]

For so long it was so cool to be a mac user. It was counter-culture and independent. You still see the apple stickers on the back of subarus and volkswagens. The ad campaigns for Apple with John Hodgeman as the PC and whoever-that-guy-was as the Mac pretty much sum up my reaction to apple: that they are smug and irritating. For a long time microsoft was seen as over-reaching and intrusive in people's lives because it seemed like you just had to use microsoft products. Apple was clever enough to make it cool and stylish to be stuck in their ecosystem. Do you like U2? I mean ... you do like U2 don't you?

 

OS X is unix-based

 

Windows is not.

 

That is the primary basis for my preference. The rest is irrelevant. If I didn't use OS X, I would use Linux, not Windows, for exactly the same reason.

[Snowmonkey]

I hate Windows and Microsoft as well, but I bought and installed 8.1 without issue on Bootcamp on my mac mini

Why?

[gmgraves]

What I usually find amusing though is how aggressively Mac Mini Fanbois will come to the defence of ALL Apple products . They make the most virulent of Windows Tribesmen seem down right civilized by comparison!

 

 

While I readily admit to being a Mac "Fanboi", the rest of Apple's products, while nicely made and with a super UI, are mostly a wash with me. The downsides are lack of a user-replaceable battery, and lack of expandable memory, and non-standard USB support (you need the "Camera Connection Kit" to access the iDevice USB port). Android devices have a slightly poorer interface and aren't as beautifully made, but they often have much better cameras than the iDevices, are much faster with more powerful processors, have user replaceable batteries, user expandable memory, and the phones often have TWO simm card slots. One for a domestic carrier, and one for when the owner travels abroad, and very importantly are much cheaper than the Apple iDevices. To me, these features are far more important to me than a case machined from a solid billet of aluminum, or a moderately better UI.

 

One of my major complaints with Microsoft and Windows is MS' seeming attitude that "We don't have any real competition in the desktop computer arena, so why should we go to the trouble of improving Windows substantially, when people are going to use it whether we fix it's problems or not!" That blatant attitude is in evidence in almost all of Microsoft's computer products. And you know what? They're right.

 

Apple's fans have always been kind of touchy about their choices because they've almost always been the underdog, even though they were, without a doubt, the major innovator in the personal computing products arena. Apple marketed the GUI when MS was still selling AWFULL DOS. Windows is basically and inarguably a blatant (but ultimately poorer) copy of the Mac OS. Apple invented the modern portable digital music player, the modern smart phone, and "pad" computing. I say that they were a major innovator, because without Steve Jobs, their salad days are over, I'm afraid. I think that the iWatch basically proves that if that's the best they do, it's all over but the shouting.

[spdif-usb]

What I usually find amusing though is how aggressively Mac Mini Fanbois will come to the defence of ALL Apple products . They make the most virulent of Windows Tribesmen seem down right civilized by comparison!

You are 150 percent correct.

 

Here's the latest Mac Mini i7 which currently sells for $794.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MD388LL-Desktop-NEWEST-VERSION/dp/B007477COO

 

Here's what can be had for $3.66 less.

http://www.amazon.com/Zotac-i7-4770T-2-5GHz-Barebone-ZBOX-IQ01-U/dp/B00H34D5YE

Kingston Technology 4GB 1600MHz DDR3L PC3-12800 1.35V Non-ECC CL11 SODIMM Intel Laptop Memory KVR16LS11/4 at Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Cache-Drive-WD10JFCX/dp/B00EHBES1U

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EDSI8HW

 

Please note the fact I included the Full version of Windows 8.1 Pro, which is not a requirement as there are cheaper options to also consider, such as the Standard edition instead of the Pro (possibly using TeamViewer as a viable replacement for Remote Desktop, etc...) and or the OEM version instead of the Full (albeit this one obviously depends, but anyway). On top of that, internal storage and memory choices are very limited with the Mac Mini, i.e. you have to be satisfied with the default config or pay an outrageous markup for additional RAM and or an internal storage option other than the default option, or try selling the 4GB RAM and or 1TB harddrive so either way it's going to have lower specs or be more expensive than a similar solution based on Windows. As for OS X versus Windows, each one has its own strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I like the superior manageability and compatibility of Windows better. That is, among several other key differences. Those who want to argue Windows is more 'primitive' than OS X seem to be forgetting the fact OS X is in many ways just a simple rehash of UNIX, which, for crying out loud, is more than 43 years of age.

[spdif-usb]

Why?

It's because all Apple Fanbois do.