Router and Ethernet Switch suggestions

[Cornan]

pulled this morning my trusty, good, old 10/100 PaulPang switch from the chain

was good 'till I only had a NAS and Mac mini plugged into it but since I started using Roon and an Aries as endpoint... it wasn't holding up anymore

 

replaced, for the moment, with a plain vanilla Netgear GS105E gigabit but, even though I'm powering it from a good LPS (as everything else)... must confess I'm feeling "a bit nervous" LOL!

so while leaving everything the way it is... I'm looking around

 

Paul Pang now makes a gigabit switch and I've also seen this one by Jcat which looks the same as the AQVox

re the Jcat vs AQVox it's not about price, just... so far my "don't buy from companies which go a long length about describing how their stuff does sound but say almost nothing about how it is made and why" has always proven right [emoji14] and both AQVox and Jcat's "technical description" look exactly the same

 

Paul Pang too now says quite a little about his mods plus... the switch he is using looks an old and discontinued model

 

oh, and... all of the above are 8 ports but 5 is more than enough for my needs (and available space)

more ideas/suggestions?

Funny! I thought I was crazy when I ordered a second D-Link DSG-105 switch to experiment with a battery powered daisy-chain...until I saw this on the link you shared to Paul Pang's website.

 

 

My wacky experiment suddenly turned into plain vanilla! ?

[pl_svn]

Funny! I thought I was crazy when I ordered a second D-Link DSG-105 switch to experiment with a battery powered daisy-chain...until I saw this on the link you shared to Paul Pang's website.

[ATTACH]33752[/ATTACH]

My wacky experiment suddenly turned into plain vanilla! 

I'm doing something similar here (but with just one PPA switch: the one connecting "audio devices") plus optical isolation between the two switches

[Cornan]

I'm doing something similar here (but with just one PPA switch: the one connecting "audio devices") plus optical isolation between the two switches

 

Since I have a pair of FMCs with 10m fiber-optical cable collecting dust it have actually crossed my mind to do something similar. That would however mean 4 battery packs in the chain in my case (2 for the switches + 2 for the FMCs), so I have decided to leave that idea in the freezer! ?

 

BTW. I strongly recommend you'll try to ground the switch. I connected mine to my Entreq Minimus and was amazed by the SQ jump.

[Confused]

pulled this morning my trusty, good, old 10/100 PaulPang switch from the chain

was good 'till I only had a NAS and Mac mini plugged into it but since I started using Roon and an Aries as endpoint... it wasn't holding up anymore

 

replaced, for the moment, with a plain vanilla Netgear GS105E gigabit but, even though I'm powering it from a good LPS (as everything else)... must confess I'm feeling "a bit nervous" LOL!

so while leaving everything the way it is... I'm looking around

 

Paul Pang now makes a gigabit switch and I've also seen this one by Jcat which looks the same as the AQVox

re the Jcat vs AQVox it's not about price, just... so far my "don't buy from companies which go a long length about describing how their stuff does sound but say almost nothing about how it is made and why" has always proven right and both AQVox and Jcat's "technical description" look exactly the same

 

Paul Pang too now says quite a little about his mods plus... the switch he is using looks an old and discontinued model

 

oh, and... all of the above are 8 ports but 5 is more than enough for my needs (and available space)

more ideas/suggestions?

A great post. It does beg the question, does anyone know how the AQVox & Jcat switch compare? They do look similar, although the Jcat is half the price. Maybe the Paul Pang is still the switch of choice. Has anyone got any hard facts or insight here?

[R1200CL]

I have experimented with these things continuously since I went from CD playback to a Slim Devices Transporter 10 years ago.

 

At no time since then have I ever found wireless anywhere near acceptable in terms of stability or SQ.

 

A few months ago, I invested in TP-Link fiberoptics, based on high praise here and elsewhere. It didn't take long to discover that the SQ was markedly inferior to wire.

 

I have had positive experiences with the Aqvox 5V wall wart and USB cables, so after the Hifi Statement review, I decided to take a chance. The switch appears to build on Paul Pang's work and I have had great results with several of his products.

 

Al Jones

 

Have you got the Aqvox yet ?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[Al Jones]

For reasons unknown, the Danish postal service managed to overshoot Århus, Denmark, by over 800 km and send the parcel to a transit station in Stockholm, Sweden.

 

The Aqvox switch arrived today. I will set it up tomorrow, play with it a few days and report back.

[pl_svn]

ok, two days after pulling that PaulPang 10/100 switch and... I can't really say I'm missing something

(even though I'm still nervous about using a "non audiophile" switch LOL!)

 

It's a long time since I started powering the switch itself (plus all the stuff it is connecting) from some (good to truly great) LPSs

back then, when I did, I "thought" there was indeed an improvement and a greater one than going, afterwards, from a "non audiophile" switch to the Paul Pang so... :-|

 

think I'll keep (... for a while ) everything as it now is and try, instead, powering also the FMC and switch north of the "audio zone" ones from better PS. Don't think it is worth going LPS there too: maybe... just try iFi iPower?

[Cornan]

ok, two days after pulling that PaulPang 10/100 switch and... I can't really say I'm missing something

(even though I'm still nervous about using a "non audiophile" switch LOL!)

 

It's a long time since I started powering the switch itself (plus all the stuff it is connecting) from some (good to truly great) LPSs

back then, when I did, I "thought" there was indeed an improvement and a greater one than going, afterwards, from a "non audiophile" switch to the Paul Pang so... :-|

 

think I'll keep (... for a while ) everything as it now is and try, instead, powering also the FMC and switch north of the "audio zone" ones from better PS. Don't think it is worth going LPS there too: maybe... just try iFi iPower?

 

IME you should strive to connect the switch to something that is galvanicly isolated from the ac mains. No need for it to be an expensive solution with ultra low noise like a fancy LPSU or various Ultracap supplies. A galvanicly isolated lab psu, a battery pack disconnected from ac mains or the original SMPS plugged into a isolation transformer with floating secondary (ex. B&K 1604A) will do the trick. Also, if the switch have a GND screw in the back of the unit add a simple copper or silver plated wire between it and a free ac ground receptacle. If you own a grounding box it will be even better. Give it a try! I think you will be quite surpriced by the sq results with a plain vanilla switch!

[pl_svn]

hhhhmmmm... I'm keeping all the grounding (and properly phasing) voodoo for when, some years from now, I'll hopefully move to the countryside and set up a "controlled" music room taking care, from the ground up, also of all the wiring/grounding stuff

 

In this building where I have no idea what others might be doing with their grounds... =:-|

(already using isolation transformers for pre and power amplifier. plus the LPSs for everything else)

 

If was to spend $1000 on a grounding box... I'm sure a microRendu + LPS-1 for my secondary (headphones) system would bring a much greater SQ improvement

And I'm already pretty happy with the main (speakers) one :-)

[Cornan]

hhhhmmmm... I'm keeping all the grounding (and properly phasing) voodoo for when, some years from now, I'll hopefully move to the countryside and set up a "controlled" music room taking care, from the ground up, also of all the wiring/grounding stuff

 

In this building where I have no idea what others might be doing with their grounds... =:-|

(already using isolation transformers for pre and power amplifier. plus the LPSs for everything else)

 

If was to spend $1000 on a grounding box... I'm sure a microRendu + LPS-1 for my secondary (headphones) system would bring a much greater SQ improvement

And I'm already pretty happy with the main (speakers) one :-)

 

No need to buy a grounding box for the switch experiment. Just run a wire from the switch GND screw to a unused ground recepctacle in the wall ac outlet and connect the switch SMPS to the isolation transformer you already own. Easy to to and undo.

 

If you like the result and wish to see what a grounding box might do you can buy this one for under USD100.- Aucharm Audio Grounding Box with Crocodile lip Ground Wire | eBay when available again!

[Al Jones]

Hearing things

Here are my first impressions of the Aqvox AQ-Switch-8 (modded D-Link DGS-108) with 100 hours on it. I strongly suspect that the switch hasn't yet reached its peak, but only time will tell.

 

I installed the Aqvox switch as close as possible to my modem/router in the basement with only the following connections:

 

1m Argento silver interconnect from grounding screw to Entreq Minimus grounding box

25cm Meicord LAN from input 1 to Sonic Transporter

25cm Meicord LAN from input 7 to modem/router for Tidal access

5m Meicord LAN from input 8 to LAN wall panel

 

From wall panel (upstairs) 3m Meicord LAN to Etalon Ethernet Isolator - 0.5m Meicord LAN to Microrendu (LPSU-1) - Sbooster Vbus2 - 15cm Elijah USB cable with 5V DC injector (LPSU-1) - Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 DAC/ room correction/pre/power/active crossover.

 

Haven't tried plugging in non-audio components, since I have other switches for that.

 

Experimented with/without grounding box. Definitely staying in. Tried various PS, including LPSU-1, Keces, Sbooster. Nothing improved on the Aqvox modified D-Link PS.

 

The effect of the switch is far from subtle, if not quite earth-shattering. Whether it is worth the money is strictly a personal choice, but I know I'm not parting with mine.

 

Sonically, things are tighter, more solid, with more space between voices and instruments and a clearer rendering of low-level detail. Fadeouts last longer. The slight intake of breath just before a singer bears down is more clearly discernible. Audience noise on live recordings is more distinct and separate.

 

High female voices (most of the ladies on Blue Coast DSD) bloom with greater ease and naturalness.

 

I can crank things up louder with no stress or strain.

 

In general, CD tracks are now closer to the purity and sweeter tonality of Hirez.

 

I won't pretend to have any kind of plausible explanation as to why this should be. I'm just going to kick back and spend the foreseeable future rediscovering my music, beginning with every live recording in my collection.

[mozes]

Hearing things

Here are my first impressions of the Aqvox AQ-Switch-8 (modded D-Link DGS-108) with 100 hours on it. I strongly suspect that the switch hasn't yet reached its peak, but only time will tell.

 

I installed the Aqvox switch as close as possible to my modem/router in the basement with only the following connections:

 

1m Argento silver interconnect from grounding screw to Entreq Minimus grounding box

25cm Meicord LAN from input 1 to Sonic Transporter

25cm Meicord LAN from input 7 to modem/router for Tidal access

5m Meicord LAN from input 8 to LAN wall panel

 

From wall panel (upstairs) 3m Meicord LAN to Etalon Ethernet Isolator - 0.5m Meicord LAN to Microrendu (LPSU-1) - Sbooster Vbus2 - 15cm Elijah USB cable with 5V DC injector (LPSU-1) - Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 DAC/ room correction/pre/power/active crossover.

 

Haven't tried plugging in non-audio components, since I have other switches for that.

 

Experimented with/without grounding box. Definitely staying in. Tried various PS, including LPSU-1, Keces, Sbooster. Nothing improved on the Aqvox modified D-Link PS.

 

The effect of the switch is far from subtle, if not quite earth-shattering. Whether it is worth the money is strictly a personal choice, but I know I'm not parting with mine.

 

Sonically, things are tighter, more solid, with more space between voices and instruments and a clearer rendering of low-level detail. Fadeouts last longer. The slight intake of breath just before a singer bears down is more clearly discernible. Audience noise on live recordings is more distinct and separate.

 

High female voices (most of the ladies on Blue Coast DSD) bloom with greater ease and naturalness.

 

I can crank things up louder with no stress or strain.

 

In general, CD tracks are now closer to the purity and sweeter tonality of Hirez.

 

I won't pretend to have any kind of plausible explanation as to why this should be. I'm just going to kick back and spend the foreseeable future rediscovering my music, beginning with every live recording in my collection.

Thank you for sharing your experience, I am very excited now and can't wait to receive mine. It should be here in another week or 10 days

[Mercman]

Hearing things

Here are my first impressions of the Aqvox AQ-Switch-8 (modded D-Link DGS-108) with 100 hours on it. I strongly suspect that the switch hasn't yet reached its peak, but only time will tell.

 

I installed the Aqvox switch as close as possible to my modem/router in the basement with only the following connections:

 

1m Argento silver interconnect from grounding screw to Entreq Minimus grounding box

25cm Meicord LAN from input 1 to Sonic Transporter

25cm Meicord LAN from input 7 to modem/router for Tidal access

5m Meicord LAN from input 8 to LAN wall panel

 

From wall panel (upstairs) 3m Meicord LAN to Etalon Ethernet Isolator - 0.5m Meicord LAN to Microrendu (LPSU-1) - Sbooster Vbus2 - 15cm Elijah USB cable with 5V DC injector (LPSU-1) - Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 DAC/ room correction/pre/power/active crossover.

 

Haven't tried plugging in non-audio components, since I have other switches for that.

 

Experimented with/without grounding box. Definitely staying in. Tried various PS, including LPSU-1, Keces, Sbooster. Nothing improved on the Aqvox modified D-Link PS.

 

The effect of the switch is far from subtle, if not quite earth-shattering. Whether it is worth the money is strictly a personal choice, but I know I'm not parting with mine.

 

Sonically, things are tighter, more solid, with more space between voices and instruments and a clearer rendering of low-level detail. Fadeouts last longer. The slight intake of breath just before a singer bears down is more clearly discernible. Audience noise on live recordings is more distinct and separate.

 

High female voices (most of the ladies on Blue Coast DSD) bloom with greater ease and naturalness.

 

I can crank things up louder with no stress or strain.

 

In general, CD tracks are now closer to the purity and sweeter tonality of Hirez.

 

I won't pretend to have any kind of plausible explanation as to why this should be. I'm just going to kick back and spend the foreseeable future rediscovering my music, beginning with every live recording in my collection.

 

Thanks for your impressions. Mine is also on the way.

[Confused]

I received my Aqvox switch earlier this week and today had some time for a bit of A/B testing. For the record, the setup was an i5 PC running Roon, this runs to a Virgin Media Superhub, about 10 meters of cat 5 Ethernet, the Aqvox, microRendu, Mutec MC3+USB, AES/EBU to a Devialet 1000 Pro and KEF Blades.  I ran through a selection of music with the Aqvox, then listened to the same playlist via my cheap and cheerful TP Link switch. After listening to about 45 minutes Aqvox and 45 minutes TP-Link, I was thinking that maybe there were some very subtle improvements, but to be honest I was not sure. I was taking some notes regarding anything I noticed that was particularly good or bad, and then moved on to listening to some key sections of music, and swapping between the Aqvox and TP Link switches. One observation here, it says something for the stability of Roon with the microRendu that I could get up, swap the Ethernet cables between switches, sit down, hit play on the iPad, and music played, somehow I was expecting more hassle!

Another point to note is that with the set-up mentioned above, you can remove the Ethernet cable feeding the microRendu, and music continues to play for a second or so.

Anyway, switching back between the Aqvox and the TP-Link with the key sections of music I think I did start to pick up some benefits from the Aqvox, but I have to say these are very small. One aspect was in terms of 'hearing the room', those tiny little sounds that give you some insight into where the music was performed, this seamed to be slightly improved with the Aqvox. In a couple of areas I felt that the sound stage was more robust and a very slight 'digital edge' was removed. I have to emphasise though that these differences were tiny, I am pretty confident that I would fail to separate the Aqvox and TP Link in a blind test. To give you an idea, after the two full runs through of the playlist, I did have some thoughts of checking the return policy for the Aqvox, although I thought that maybe I was picking up some improvements, I really was not sure. After the later rapid A/B swaps between the two switches, I did then start to think it was maybe worth keeping. To sum up, I would say that in terms of my most recent 'tweaks', I'd put the Mutec MC3+USB as a clear number 1 (if you can consider the Mutec a Tweak, it is perhaps more of a source component), the Uptone Audio LPS-1 to power the microRendu would be next up, then the Aqvox. To sum up, I've decided it's a keeper, but if I'm brutally honest I am not 100% sure how much of the improvements are real or in the range of expectation bias and placebo effect, it's a subtle one!

[Solstice380]

Thanks for taking the time to do the legwork and for the straightforward and objective summary!

[pl_svn]

had the very same impressions as you when i switched (pun intended) from a plain Netgear gigabit switch to PaulPang's 10/100 one (now discontinued). only difference is... that one was "just" €150 shipped

[plissken]

The question becomes: If you can play back without any Ethernet connection what does the switch have to do with the SQ?

 

 

[Confused]

3 minutes ago, plissken said:

The question becomes: If you can play back without any Ethernet connection what does the switch have to do with the SQ?

 

 

Logically, nothing whatsoever.  I'm wondering if the switch might afford some benefit with respect to reducing noise / EMI, but the 'reclclocking' aspects leave me somewhat baffled.

[plissken]

8 minutes ago, Confused said:

Logically, nothing whatsoever.  I'm wondering if the switch might afford some benefit with respect to reducing noise / EMI, but the 'reclclocking' aspects leave me somewhat baffled.

 

Noise floor can be easily measured. It's trivial actually. The switch isn't re-clocking it's simply using something like a 25.000000 Mhz clock vs a 25.0000 clock. It's clock is just MORE 25Mhz :-)

 

The other consideration is that the NIC in the computer is still 25.0000 and since the endpoints need to synch they can't do any better than the clock with the fewest zeros. 

[miguelito]

On 3/9/2017 at 8:51 AM, pl_svn said:

ok, two days after pulling that PaulPang 10/100 switch and... I can't really say I'm missing something

(even though I'm still nervous about using a "non audiophile" switch LOL!)

 

It's a long time since I started powering the switch itself (plus all the stuff it is connecting) from some (good to truly great) LPSs

back then, when I did, I "thought" there was indeed an improvement and a greater one than going, afterwards, from a "non audiophile" switch to the Paul Pang so... :-|

 

think I'll keep (... for a while ) everything as it now is and try, instead, powering also the FMC and switch north of the "audio zone" ones from better PS. Don't think it is worth going LPS there too: maybe... just try iFi iPower?

Nervous? As in audiophilia nervosa? Or is this a metaphor for a sound signature?

[pl_svn]

15 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Nervous? As in audiophilia nervosa? Or is this a metaphor for a sound signature?

 

totally forgot about that 

 

still on a plain non audiophile switch since and... (attached image  )

definitely was just audiophilia nervosa

[Confused]

20 hours ago, plissken said:

Noise floor can be easily measured. It's trivial actually.

To be honest, I'd love to measure the noise floor for the Aqvox.  The trouble is it is not trivial for me, I do not have any test kit.

[plissken]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

To be honest, I'd love to measure the noise floor for the Aqvox.  The trouble is it is not trivial for me, I do not have any test kit.

 

You only need your ear. With one switch, and no music playing, start to turn up the volume. You may or may not get tweeter hiss. Now if you have the volume turned up and you change out the switch and nothing has changed. Then nothing has changed. 

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

To be honest, I'd love to measure the noise floor for the Aqvox.  The trouble is it is not trivial for me, I do not have any test kit.

 

Do not forget to try to ground the AQVOX switch. Atleast two whom I know about have said it improved the sq on their AQVOX switches. I am expecting my AQVOX to arrive in a couple of days time and will surely ground it right away. My current plain vanilla D-Link DGS-105 switch improved vastly by external grounding. A floating ac ground connection is another thing that almost any network devices improves upon IME. Just a couple of friendly tips!

[Confused]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Do not forget to try to ground the AQVOX switch. Atleast two whom I know about have said it improved the sq on their AQVOX switches. I am expecting my AQVOX to arrive in a couple of days time and will surely ground it right away. My current plain vanilla D-Link DGS-105 switch improved vastly by external grounding. A floating ac ground connection is another thing that almost any network devices improves upon IME. Just a couple of friendly tips!

An interesting point.  For the record, my earlier observations re the Aqvox were made with it NOT connected to ground.  When I get a bit of time I'll make up a ground cable, give this a try, and report back.