Router and Ethernet Switch suggestions

[Cornan]

15 minutes ago, Confused said:

An interesting point.  For the record, my earlier observations re the Aqvox were made with it NOT connected to ground.  When I get a bit of time I'll make up a ground cable, give this a try, and report back.

 

Please do, it will be interesting to hear your impressions! ? Another thing that I forgot to mention is to make sure to use port 1 for input and port 8 for output. D-Link switches are using QoS and have the highest priority on the last port. Please report back with that one too if you have'nt connected it that way already. ?

[Confused]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Please do, it will be interesting to hear your impressions! ? Another thing that I forgot to mention is to make sure to use port 1 for input and port 8 for output. D-Link switches are using QoS and have the highest priority on the last port. Please report back with that one too if you have'nt connected it that way already. ?

I used ports 1 & 3.    (Port 1 for the input, so not a total fail!)

[Cornan]

3 minutes ago, Confused said:

I used ports 1 & 3.    (Port 1 for the input, so not a total fail!)

 

Luckily it is extremely easy to change and see if it improves in your setup. It did with my plain vanilla switch and my guess is it will on AQVOX as well! ?

[Confused]

19 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Luckily it is extremely easy to change and see if it improves in your setup. It did with my plain vanilla switch and my guess is it will on AQVOX as well! ?

Yes, both this and the grounding 'tweak' are very easy to try and more or less cost free.  Due to many commitments at the moment it will probably be a week or so before I'm able to carefully evaluate the potential improvements, but when I do get time I will report back.  Thanks for the input, suggestions such as this are appreciated, especially when they are cheap to implement!

[Celts88]

I'm due to get my AQVOX soon (posted last week) and will set-up the Port 1 & 8 as suggested, but sorry for the dumb question - how do I do the grounding cable???

 

I believe there's a connection on the AQVOX, but where do I attach the other end?

[GUTB]

I've noticed streaming hi-fi quality from Tidal is a noticeable downgrade from listening to the very same tracks from ripped CDs. Both played through Roon from the same PC. Is that quality loss due to the networking components involved, or is it more likely that I'm just hearing Tidal compression?

[lmitche]

15 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I've noticed streaming hi-fi quality from Tidal is a noticeable downgrade from listening to the very same tracks from ripped CDs. Both played through Roon from the same PC. Is that quality loss due to the networking components involved, or is it more likely that I'm just hearing Tidal compression?

Tidal playback is basically equivalent to local HDD playback here.

[R1200CL]

52 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I've noticed streaming hi-fi quality from Tidal is a noticeable downgrade from listening to the very same tracks from ripped CDs. Both played through Roon from the same PC. Is that quality loss due to the networking components involved, or is it more likely that I'm just hearing Tidal compression?

 

Very strange. Once it was the opposite for me. Now I think no difference. 

Can you tell us more about your setup ? Or is it everything on one PC ?

Local storage. SSD or something else.

Any MicroRendu and LPS-1 ?

 

I suppose using Tidal app, even with Master then does not change anything ?

 

I don't think Tidal compression exist ?

 

[GUTB]

Just now, R1200CL said:

 

Very strange. Once it was the opposite for me. Now I think no difference. 

Can you tell us more about your setup ? Or is it everything on one PC ?

Local storage. SSD or something else.

Any MicroRendu and LPS-1 ?

 

I suppose using Tidal app, even with Master then does not change anything ?

 

I don't think Tidal compression exist ?

 

 

Dedicated audio PC. SSD powered by external USB adapter. Roon. Fidelizer Pro. HQPlayer. Windows 10. I7-7700K. 100% fanless. It's connected via wired LAN to the router/modem supplied by the ISP. I have an inexpensive 845 SET amp which is not very resolving. My speakers are decent (Frtiz Carbon VII SE).

 

A Paul Pang V3 USB card (powered externally by a battery bank) feeds an Amanero I2S (LKS USB-100 also battery powered) bridge which then feeds into a Gustard X20 (the older 9018 version). Again, by no means a very resolving system. Roon outputs everything through poly-sinc-mp-shrt DSD256 (including Tidal output).

 

Here is a test track from my CD rip library (ripped with JRiver):

Tony Williamson - Still Light of the Evening.flac

 

Here the corresponding Tidal album:

https://tidal.com/album/10127774

 

[mozes]

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

I've noticed streaming hi-fi quality from Tidal is a noticeable downgrade from listening to the very same tracks from ripped CDs. Both played through Roon from the same PC. Is that quality loss due to the networking components involved, or is it more likely that I'm just hearing Tidal compression?

 Not uncommon, Ripped cds stored on my ssd sound significantly better than the same tracks on Tidal. My guess is that network noise and isolation have to do with it more than Tidal compression if it exists. My opinion is based on the fact that when I tried the AQVOX switch, Tidal became the closest ever to my ssd stored music.

[Cornan]

6 hours ago, Celts88 said:

I'm due to get my AQVOX soon (posted last week) and will set-up the Port 1 & 8 as suggested, but sorry for the dumb question - how do I do the grounding cable???

 

I believe there's a connection on the AQVOX, but where do I attach the other end?

 

There is several ways to ground the AQVOX switch. The very best way to minimize interferences is to use a grounding box of any kind. Just attach the wire (any suitable sized stranded or solid copper silver wire down to 22awg).

 

If you do not own a grounding box you can ground the other end of the wire to the safety ground pin in the wall outlet or powerstrip (where available), attach it to a radiator water pipe (if you have any close by), connect it to the GND turntable screw on the preamp or integrated amp (if you have) or to anything else close by that you know is properly grounded.

 

Good luck!

 

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, GUTB said:

SSD powered by external USB adapter.

 

That maybe part of the reason. I like to test myself one day. I notice you use USB from a PC, and not a endpoint like MicroRendu or similar. So you may have found a way to beat the SQ of a Tidal stream ?

 

[m5sime]

Hi - if anyone is interested,  I took my metal cased Netgear 8 port GBE switch apart and added a ground wire to one of the screws that connects the PCB ground plane to that of the metal chassis. I have been connecting and disconnecting to the mains ground during a track and cannot hear a difference. 

 

Interestingly if I touch this ground wire rapidly on the downstream spdif metal barreled cable from my streamer to the DAC I can get a tiny click sometimes so while the barrel is not ground, and likely is introducing some minor Dc current it has an effect. 

[Cornan]

27 minutes ago, m5sime said:

Hi - if anyone is interested,  I took my metal cased Netgear 8 port GBE switch apart and added a ground wire to one of the screws that connects the PCB ground plane to that of the metal chassis. I have been connecting and disconnecting to the mains ground during a track and cannot hear a difference. 

 

Interestingly if I touch this ground wire rapidly on the downstream spdif metal barreled cable from my streamer to the DAC I can get a tiny click sometimes so while the barrel is not ground, and likely is introducing some minor Dc current it has an effect. 

 

Thanks for sharing! I would'nt give up on it. Remember that you want to drain away noises from the switch so it is very important to use a good low impedance grounding path that also do not drain noises back to the audio system. I am using a grounding box myself which is highly recommended. To drain it elsewere will only give you a clue to what you can expect by this tweak.

 

BTW. How are you powering your Netgear switch? If it works with 5v you should try to connect a simple powerbank and power it with the AC charger disconnected while listening to music. 

 

[m5sime]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

BTW. How are you powering your Netgear switch? If it works with 5v you should try to connect a simple powerbank and power it with the AC charger disconnected while listening to music. 

 

Hi - the Netgear is 12V 1A and I have swapped the original smps PSU for an older heavy linear PSU in a wall plug from an older Netgear switch I had. I also tested it fine at 9V from my IFI supply that is powering my MicroRendu. 

[Cornan]

9 hours ago, m5sime said:

Hi - the Netgear is 12V 1A and I have swapped the original smps PSU for an older heavy linear PSU in a wall plug from an older Netgear switch I had. I also tested it fine at 9V from my IFI supply that is powering my MicroRendu. 

 

What did you think about the mR+iFi combo powering the Netgear switch?

IME powering all network devices with a floating ac mains connection (batterypack disconnected from ac mains, floating psu or psu connected to a IT with floating secondary) is hugely beneficial for sq when listening to cloud content (ex.Tidal) where all the music bits are passing through router/wireless brigdes/network switch etc.

mR+iFi is not completely floating relatively to the safety ground (unless connected to a floating IT), but the combo should be close enough to make a very noticable difference IMO.

 

BTW. If you are interested. Here is an idea for a grounding experiment that I will perform as soon as the AQVOX switch and all the parts have arrived!

 

[m5sime]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

What did you think about the mR+iFi combo powering the Netgear switch?

IME powering all network devices with a floating ac mains connection (batterypack disconnected from ac mains, floating psu or psu connected to a IT with floating secondary) is hugely beneficial for sq when listening to cloud content (ex.Tidal) where all the music bits are passing through router/wireless brigdes/network switch etc.

mR+iFi is not completely floating relatively to the safety ground (unless connected to a floating IT), but the combo should be close enough to make a very noticable difference IMO.

 

BTW. If you are interested. Here is an idea for a grounding experiment that I will perform as soon as the AQVOX switch and all the parts have arrived!

 

 

Hi - I have not been able (nor will I easily) to use a battery pack for the router etc. I am doing testing today. My main focus is to evaluate the signal chain between my Rendu and Sonos streamer. The fact they sound so close to one another just means that something isn't right.. Whether its the resolving ability of my amp. But for sure.. With the difference this small, whats the point of Mac + Roon + IFI + Rendu vs plain old Sonos ZP80. 

 

I love to tweak, and willing to try things. But I evaluate on value for money and right now the Rendu chain isn't earning its keep. Which is odd! The main reason I would keep it is for streaming hires and also MQA.

 

I will try the IFI vs linear walmart 12v PSU for the switch. I will try the grounding cable (only to mains ground). I will try ethernet switch vs internet router (ethernet ports on each).. 

 

I have torn apart my HiFi install and brought my Mac mini to the same system removing the mains ethernet power line adapters from the signal chain.. Good experiment day and evening..

[Cornan]

46 minutes ago, m5sime said:

 

Hi - I have not been able (nor will I easily) to use a battery pack for the router etc. I am doing testing today. My main focus is to evaluate the signal chain between my Rendu and Sonos streamer. The fact they sound so close to one another just means that something isn't right.. Whether its the resolving ability of my amp. But for sure.. With the difference this small, whats the point of Mac + Roon + IFI + Rendu vs plain old Sonos ZP80. 

 

I love to tweak, and willing to try things. But I evaluate on value for money and right now the Rendu chain isn't earning its keep. Which is odd! The main reason I would keep it is for streaming hires and also MQA.

 

I will try the IFI vs linear walmart 12v PSU for the switch. I will try the grounding cable (only to mains ground). I will try ethernet switch vs internet router (ethernet ports on each).. 

 

I have torn apart my HiFi install and brought my Mac mini to the same system removing the mains ethernet power line adapters from the signal chain.. Good experiment day and evening..

 

If you are not able to use batter power I highly recommend you to try a floating bench style safety psu. It do not need to be expensive if you just find a truly floating one. IME it can even beat battery power and I beleive a plausible explanation is built up static electricity since the battery is still connected to both ac mains and the powered device while charging. SMPS is not either the root of all evil. I recently bought this cheapeo Gophert CPS-3205 II chinease safety style SMPS https://www.banggood.com/GOPHERT-CPS-3205-0-32V-0-5A-Portable-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-110V220V-p-934530.html for my low budget setup and it actually performed better powering my Oehlbach DAC than a batterypack, especially after making a DIY star quad DC cable for it (by JS recommendations on the DC cable thread).

 

A good way to quickly find out possible improvements in a setup is to draw a system typology and share it with others here on CA. You are welcome to share it on my thread if you want. There many others followers that are very knowledgable and helpful that could give you tips and trix where to start looking for ground loops, leakage loops and other improvements. I love tweaks as well! It can be a pain to deal with possible ground loops/leakage loops, so the best thing one can do is to actually enjoy the road of experiments while heading there. It is a great learning path and actually great fun if you start enjoying it!

 

Good luck and do not forget to share your impressions down that rabbit hole!  

 

 

[Cornan]

Here is my first short review of the AQVOX switch which I got a couple of hours ago. There will be more coming! ?

 

Hmm. I tried to remove that last link since I shared the wrong post...but I couldn't do it! ?

[Confused]

As an update of my experience of the Aqvox switch.  Taking the earlier advise in this thread, I had given it some time to bed in, in case that might make any difference.  I tried connecting it to ground, tried connecting it port 1 in, port 8 out.  I again tried some back to back tests with my old switch and was still unsure if I could detect an improvement.  There were times when I felt an improvement in the 'little things', such as being able to sense the ambience in a room.  Maybe this would have been enough for me to be happy with the Euro 400 cost, however, there was some occasions when swapping between the old switch and the Aqvos that I was not 100% convinced that I was not picking up something negative with the Aqvox, in terms of a little 'digital fizz' in the high frequencies.  To be clear, this was all absolutely on the margins of what might be imagined or the result of expectation bias.

 

So in conclusion, I eventually decided the Aqvox was not for me and returned the switch. I think you can sometimes learn more about a company when things are not going so well, rather than when they are going fully to plan.  I sent the Aqvox switch back last week and yesterday I received a full refund, which included the original cost of postage from Germany to the UK. OK, I had to pay the postage for return, but all things considered I think this is excellent service.

So if anyone else is considering the Aqvox switch and is not sure due to my rather negative posts versus some other very positive posts, I can at least confirm that the refund policy is fair, so nothing to worry about in that regard.

So I am now wondering about the JCat alternaive, which at Euro 195 is a lot cheaper than the Aqvox, until you consider that they advise that you use it with a high quality LPSU, which makes it much more expensive that the Aqvox. The trouble is, I can find very little information on the JCat at the moment, so I think I'll sit back and wait for a while.

http://jplay.eu/jcat/#manual12

 

Has anyone tried the JCat?  Can anyone think of any reason why the the JCat may offer something that the Aqvox did not, for me at least?

[lmitche]

Have you tried a direct connection? AKA no switch?

[Cornan]

@Confused

Sorry to hear that the AQVOX switch did'nt do it for you, but glad to hear that Aqvox take good care of their costumers. For me the AQVOX switch was a really great improvement, but I guess that highly depends on the setup. I am listening to Tidal streaming only and are using a wireless bridge in front of the battery powered AQVOX switch. The AQVOX is also grounded to a Entreq Minimus (now the unused ports are grounded as well). It made so much of a difference that it was the main reason (together with the LightningDS 5.0 beta 2 release) for me to change my beloved Pioneer U-05 to a Mytek Brooklyn, send my Fostex TH900 for a balanced rewiring and go all in with a fully unlocked MQA.

 

Good luck with the JCAT adventure! I hope it will work better for you. ?

[Tecnik1]

On 5/18/2017 at 4:07 AM, Cornan said:

@Confused

Sorry to hear that the AQVOX switch did'nt do it for you, but glad to hear that Aqvox take good care of their costumers. For me the AQVOX switch was a really great improvement, but I guess that highly depends on the setup. I am listening to Tidal streaming only and are using a wireless bridge in front of the battery powered AQVOX switch. The AQVOX is also grounded to a Entreq Minimus (now the unused ports are grounded as well). It made so much of a difference that it was the main reason (together with the LightningDS 5.0 beta 2 release) for me to change my beloved Pioneer U-05 to a Mytek Brooklyn, send my Fostex TH900 for a balanced rewiring and go all in with a fully unlocked MQA.

 

Good luck with the JCAT adventure! I hope it will work better for you. ?

Hi Cornan you state. The AQVOX is also grounded to a Entreq Minimus (now the unused ports are grounded as well).

Please clarify what I think you said, as I understand what your saying is that you have the Aqvox grounded with the grounding post at the back to the Minimum plus the unused ports using a RJ45 correct to the minimum as well?

Im currently using the Aqvox as well grounding the the rear pin to a silver minimus and was thinking of doing the same as you but was afraid of causing the switch problems.

 

 

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, Tecnik1 said:

Hi Cornan you state. The AQVOX is also grounded to a Entreq Minimus (now the unused ports are grounded as well).

Please clarify what I think you said, as I understand what your saying is that you have the Aqvox grounded with the grounding post at the back to the Minimum plus the unused ports using a RJ45 correct to the minimum as well?

Im currently using the Aqvox as well grounding the the rear pin to a silver minimus and was thinking of doing the same as you but was afraid of causing the switch problems.

 

 

 

Hi Tecnik1! ?

I have actually removed the wires from my RJ45 GND plugs since it sounded better that way. Here it how it looks right now.

 

I also use two side-by-side silver grounding wires to my Aqvox switch.

 

Other suggestion for best sound from the Aqvox switch is to use RJ45 socket no 1 for input and 8 for output due to QoS and to power it with a battery pack with charger disconnected from AC mains (sounds better than Aqvox own PSU whatever Aqvox say).

[Tecnik1]

9 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Hi Tecnik1! ?

I have actually removed the wires from my RJ45 GND plugs since it sounded better that way. Here it how it looks right now.

 

I also use two side-by-side silver grounding wires to my Aqvox switch.

 

Other suggestion for best sound from the Aqvox switch is to use RJ45 socket no 1 for input and 8 for output due to QoS and to power it with a battery pack with charger disconnected from AC mains (sounds better than Aqvox own PSU whatever Aqvox say).

Hi Cornan,

 

Thanks I well try two from the grounding post to the Silver Minimus and yes I also run #1 for Imput and # 8 for out put to my FMC. Both the Aqvox and FMC are plugged into the W4S LPS and at the other end I have the FMC off a battery pack.