Router and Ethernet Switch suggestions

[Maril555]

I'm just starting my endeavor into computer audio.

Here is a proposed configuration:

Lumin network player sitting on the same rack with the rest of the system

Cable modem, router and NAS in the adjacent room

Router connected to an Ethernet switch with generic 35-40 ft.- long CAT 5A cable, switch physically located right next to the Lumin to allow for short "audiophile- quality" Ethernet cable (Audioquest Diamond, Synergistic Research?) connecting it to Lumin

Another generic CAT 5A cable will connect the switch to Playstation4 (used for gaming and streaming movies).

For router I'm considering Asus RT-AC 68U.

Cable modem: Motorola SB 6141

NAS: Synology

Another possible candidate for a streamer is Sony HAP-Z1 ES (either Red Wine Audio, or Modwright modified)

Here is my question: need recommendation for a high quality Ethernet switch, that will be compatible with Asus router.

Also, if you have any suggestions for a different router, cable modem, NAS, cables- please do tell.

Thanks in advance

[DaQi]

Sounds like you have things well figured out. I have been using a Netgear GS108 Gigabit ethernet switch which works well. It has 8 ports on it but they also make a 5 port version as well which I think is a GS105. These things are bullet proof, fast and come with an extended warranty.

 

That router is one of the best around. I have the previous version of it and it has been great.

 

If you only have a couple things connected on the network you could skip the switch and connect them directly to the router. Although there may be some debate the run of 35-40 ft. of ethernet to the Lumin shouldn't make a difference for the SQ. Spend a bit more money on the cable and get Cat6. I wouldn't bother with "audiophile quality" ethernet cable especially for that last run as it shouldn't make a difference. Mind you, I am in the "bits is bits" camp regarding cables on the pre-DAC side of things.

 

The Synology NAS is also great. The DSM operating system has a lot of added features that you will be able to access once you get into it.

[DavidL]

+1 on the Netgear GS108 - I've 2 in my network and no problems.

 

If you go for a Synology NAS I'd recommend you get one with a more powerful processor. I have a 412+ which can run MinimServer and MinimStreamer (to transcode ALAC to WAV) quite happily.

 

I use an Airport Extreme as Router.

[dc2bluelight]

The cable is actually Cat5e, which is "enhanced" cat5 wire for gigabit network speeds, runs up to 100 meters. The (incorrect) reference to Cat5a often refers to Cat5e cable wired according to the 568A wiring plan, and Cat5B often (also incorrectly) refers to 568B wiring. The difference is the way wire pairs in the Cat5e cable are assigned to connector pins. 568A has pairings optimized for voice, 568B has pairings optimized for data. You want the 568B plan, though either will work.

 

There's no such thing as an "audiophile quality" ethernet cable, but if you wanted to up your game, you can use either shielded Cat5e or shielded Cat6. The performance of Cat6 over Cat5e won't have an impact, but it's arguable that using shielded cable may reduce possible data corruption caused by the RFI-rich world we live in. The difference, over short distances like yours, will be unmeasurable and certainly inaudible.

 

Footnote: Cat6 and Cat6a provide higher possible network speeds more than 2X and 10X respectively over Cat5e, but in practice, you'll have gigabit + speed anyway over Cat5e because of the mostly short runs, and you wouldn't use the additional speed regardless. Max data transfer through your residential router to the interwebs will be 50 meg, assuming the server at the other end could keep that up, which mostly, they can't.

[Maril555]

The cable is actually Cat5e, which is "enhanced" cat5 wire for gigabit network speeds, runs up to 100 meters. The (incorrect) reference to Cat5a often refers to Cat5e cable wired according to the 568A wiring plan, and Cat5B often (also incorrectly) refers to 568B wiring. The difference is the way wire pairs in the Cat5e cable are assigned to connector pins. 568A has pairings optimized for voice, 568B has pairings optimized for data. You want the 568B plan, though either will work.

 

There's no such thing as an "audiophile quality" ethernet cable, but if you wanted to up your game, you can use either shielded Cat5e or shielded Cat6. The performance of Cat6 over Cat5e won't have an impact, but it's arguable that using shielded cable may reduce possible data corruption caused by the RFI-rich world we live in. The difference, over short distances like yours, will be unmeasurable and certainly inaudible.

 

Footnote: Cat6 and Cat6a provide higher possible network speeds more than 2X and 10X respectively over Cat5e, but in practice, you'll have gigabit + speed anyway over Cat5e because of the mostly short runs, and you wouldn't use the additional speed regardless. Max data transfer through your residential router to the interwebs will be 50 meg, assuming the server at the other end could keep that up, which mostly, they can't.

I got CAT 6a from Blue Jeans Audio, hope it's a decent cable.

I'm mostly worried about compatibility b/w Asus RT-AC68u router and Cisco SG 200-08 Switch

[Mihnea]

I am also a new owner of a Synology 412+ NAS stuffed with 3 4TB Seagate NAS drives configured in RAID5 (actually it's a proprietary Synology type of RAID called SHR, which allows for easy RAID extensions).

 

Since this NAS comes with 2 gigabit Ethernet ports capable of teaming, I went for a switch capable of that. I chose Cisco SG200-08p which has been working very well since. It also features 4 PoE (powered) Ethernet ports which are good if you want to use an IP camera for surveillance or something (the Synology comes with a very nice surveillance package).

 

For router/wifi I have a small Apple Airport Express 3rd generation (it's an older model), but it does the job. Well, except for the wifi which is a bit slow compared to my even older TimeCapsule - my MacBook accessing the music library from the NAS through wifi gets dropouts, so I will draw an Ethernet cable to the MacBook and keep the wifi for iPad, smatphones and such.

 

I also don't recommend going for Cat6 cables since you won't get any speed advantage, but you will end up with a cable more difficult to bend and thicker. If you don't have extended runs of cable in parallel with power lines, you don't need to worry about shielding the cable either.

[dc2bluelight]

I am also a new owner of a Synology 412+ NAS stuffed with 3 4TB Seagate NAS drives configured in RAID5 (actually it's a proprietary Synology type of RAID called SHR, which allows for easy RAID extensions).

Envy. Pure envy.

I also don't recommend going for Cat6 cables since you won't get any speed advantage, but you will end up with a cable more difficult to bend and thicker.

+1. Cat6 is mostly a pointless pain unless you are running long.

If you don't have extended runs of cable in parallel with power lines, you don't need to worry about shielding the cable either.

Ah, but it's not a magnetic shield, so it'll do you little good near a power line anyway. Coupling from power lines is mostly magnetic and a little electrostatic. The shield is electromagnetic (RF) and electrostatic. Mostly, it's helpful with RFI issues, again with long runs, where the whole thing becomes a huge antenna. But you have to use shielded connectors to, or you've done nothing.

[One and a half]

The Sony HAP-Z1ES collects music files from computers or a NAS. It plays them locally from its own hard drive, and if the inbuilt disc is too small an added external USB drive can be expanded upon.

In this case, the Ethernet can be 100Mb/s, there's no streaming involved, just data transfer.

 

The Lumin on the other hand only stream files directly from a NAS, I guess that is why a suitable switch is in question.

 

In either case, a computer is needed to download the files in the first place or rip your own CD/SACD and to make changes to metadata as required. If you have a computer that you want to set aside just for playing music, USB 2.0 extenders using CAT5 cable up to 100m work very well indeed. The Lumin may be a fine player, but where to draw the line, you don't need a streamer if the computer is far away from the DAC these days.

 

 

If you want an appliance to play music from go, the HAP-Z1ES is it. Pick and play, no boot up time, OS updates, DLL hell, player updates... it is very tempting to look at tis concept, I like it a lot. And it appears it is customisable from the power supplies to larger drives and beyond, so tweaking is doable.

[Maril555]

The Sony HAP-Z1ES collects music files from computers or a NAS. It plays them locally from its own hard drive, and if the inbuilt disc is too small an added external USB drive can be expanded upon.

In this case, the Ethernet can be 100Mb/s, there's no streaming involved, just data transfer.

 

The Lumin on the other hand only stream files directly from a NAS, I guess that is why a suitable switch is in question.

 

In either case, a computer is needed to download the files in the first place or rip your own CD/SACD and to make changes to metadata as required. If you have a computer that you want to set aside just for playing music, USB 2.0 extenders using CAT5 cable up to 100m work very well indeed. The Lumin may be a fine player, but where to draw the line, you don't need a streamer if the computer is far away from the DAC these days.

 

 

If you want an appliance to play music from go, the HAP-Z1ES is it. Pick and play, no boot up time, OS updates, DLL hell, player updates... it is very tempting to look at tis concept, I like it a lot. And it appears it is customisable from the power supplies to larger drives and beyond, so tweaking is doable.

What attracts me to both Sony HAP-Z1ES and Lumin is : relative simplicity of operation and setup, and also no need for a separate DAC.

The major attraction of Sony is the company behind the product and an availability of possible mods from Red Wine Audio, Modwright, etc.

One thing I'm not completely sure about, is what happens when one exceeds the capacity of the internal hard drive and will have to expand to the external one? Would the quality of the external one matter? In my case it will be Synology NAS.

And would it mean, that my music library will be divided in two parts- one located on the internal hard drive, and the other one on the NAS?

And would that offer any advantage to use just Synology NAS and not to use an internal HD?

Lumin reportedly does sound very good in stock form, and better yet with the upgraded PSU.

They are coming out with a new flagship streamer, as I've been told by a company VP at the CES. It was actually on a silent display in their room.

[Maril555]

I am also a new owner of a Synology 412+ NAS stuffed with 3 4TB Seagate NAS drives configured in RAID5 (actually it's a proprietary Synology type of RAID called SHR, which allows for easy RAID extensions).

 

Since this NAS comes with 2 gigabit Ethernet ports capable of teaming, I went for a switch capable of that. I chose Cisco SG200-08p which has been working very well since. It also features 4 PoE (powered) Ethernet ports which are good if you want to use an IP camera for surveillance or something (the Synology comes with a very nice surveillance package).

 

For router/wifi I have a small Apple Airport Express 3rd generation (it's an older model), but it does the job. Well, except for the wifi which is a bit slow compared to my even older TimeCapsule - my MacBook accessing the music library from the NAS through wifi gets dropouts, so I will draw an Ethernet cable to the MacBook and keep the wifi for iPad, smatphones and such.

 

I also don't recommend going for Cat6 cables since you won't get any speed advantage, but you will end up with a cable more difficult to bend and thicker. If you don't have extended runs of cable in parallel with power lines, you don't need to worry about shielding the cable either.

BTW, is this the Synology model you use?

Amazon.com: Synology DiskStation 4-Bay (Diskless) Network Attached Storage DS412+ (Black): Computers & Accessories

Synology seems to have a number of 412 models, and I'm not sure I understand the differences b/w them

[jtwrace]

BTW, is this the Synology model you use?

Amazon.com: Synology DiskStation 4-Bay (Diskless) Network Attached Storage DS412+ (Black): Computers & Accessories

Synology seems to have a number of 412 models, and I'm not sure I understand the differences b/w them

 

Synology - Network Attached Storage (NAS)

[Maril555]

Synology - Network Attached Storage (NAS)

Thank you,

Another question- which music management software to use- JRiver, An area? Something else? I WILL use DAS in addition to ripped CDs

Would the choice of the software matter depending on which streamer I'll use- Limon or Sony?

[Maril555]

Thank you,

Another question- which music management software to use- JRiver, An area? Something else? I WILL use DAS in addition to ripped CDs

Would the choice of the software matter depending on which streamer I'll use- Limon or Sony?

I meant " Amarra"

[firedog]

On the Sony you can switch out to a bigger hard drive no problem. Look on the Red Wine Audio circle at audiocircle.com and in his thread about the SONY it's talked about. Vinnie is even offering HD switches as an upgrade feature with his mods.

 

What attracts me to both Sony HAP-Z1ES and Lumin is : relative simplicity of operation and setup, and also no need for a separate DAC.

The major attraction of Sony is the company behind the product and an availability of possible mods from Red Wine Audio, Modwright, etc.

One thing I'm not completely sure about, is what happens when one exceeds the capacity of the internal hard drive and will have to expand to the external one? Would the quality of the external one matter? In my case it will be Synology NAS.

And would it mean, that my music library will be divided in two parts- one located on the internal hard drive, and the other one on the NAS?

And would that offer any advantage to use just Synology NAS and not to use an internal HD?

Lumin reportedly does sound very good in stock form, and better yet with the upgraded PSU.

They are coming out with a new flagship streamer, as I've been told by a company VP at the CES. It was actually on a silent display in their room.

[Maril555]

And I meant DSD, of course

I meant " Amarra"

[Confused]

Having read much on this forum about the delights of direct Ethernet connection of the mR and sMS-200, I have now started looking into the adding an optimised Ethernet switch into my system. In my case I'm running a Windows 10 PC, router, switch mR. Without going into too much detail, this set up suits me absolutely perfectly, and the direct connection set up would not. So my thinking is, why not optimise what I have? Initially I have been looking at getting the Paul Pang Ethernet switch. Whilst looking into the Paul Pang on the 'net, I stumbled across this:

 

http://www.myhifishop.de/Devices/AQ-SWIT...anguage=en

 

At first glance this looks like a similar concept to the Paul Pang, one obvious difference being that it is twice the price! Does anyone know anything about this item, or any idea if it might be worth the 400 Euro asking price?

[Al Jones]

 

http://www.myhifishop.de/Devices/AQ-SWIT...anguage=en

 

At first glance this looks like a similar concept to the Paul Pang, one obvious difference being that it is twice the price! Does anyone know anything about this item, or any idea if it might be worth the 400 Euro asking price?

 

Ordered one yesterday. Will report back once I have played with it a few days.

[dc2bluelight]

Having read much on this forum about the delights of direct Ethernet connection of the mR and sMS-200, I have now started looking into the adding an optimised Ethernet switch into my system. In my case I'm running a Windows 10 PC, router, switch mR. Without going into too much detail, this set up suits me absolutely perfectly, and the direct connection set up would not. So my thinking is, why not optimise what I have? Initially I have been looking at getting the Paul Pang Ethernet switch. Whilst looking into the Paul Pang on the 'net, I stumbled across this:

 

http://www.myhifishop.de/Devices/AQ-SWIT...anguage=en

 

At first glance this looks like a similar concept to the Paul Pang, one obvious difference being that it is twice the price! Does anyone know anything about this item, or any idea if it might be worth the 400 Euro asking price?

 

Total Blue Smoke. Many reasons. One is, it's a "shielded metal case" that is no doubt supposed to eliminate EMI, but the box has no ground connection. Duh.

 

Then, they're specifically telling you what to expect, what you will hear. That's forced perception bias. And, there's no good way to ABX the thing.

 

Pass.

[Confused]

Total Blue Smoke. Many reasons. One is, it's a "shielded metal case" that is no doubt supposed to eliminate EMI, but the box has no ground connection. Duh.

 

Then, they're specifically telling you what to expect, what you will hear. That's forced perception bias. And, there's no good way to ABX the thing.

 

Pass.

 

It may indeed be 'blue smoke', time will tell, although I think it would be possible to do some kind of back to back test.

 

Looking at the pictures, it does actually have a ground connection.

 

[dc2bluelight]

It may indeed be 'blue smoke', time will tell, although I think it would be possible to do some kind of back to back test.

Yes, a test would be possible...but quite difficult. You'd need two complete systems, two identical "servers", routers, streamers. One with this thing, and one with a "standard" switch, then you'd ABX the outputs of the streaming servers...if you could ever get them synched. It's a mess, and no conducive to any practical "test". Better, you could measure some aspects of their claimed improvement, like "jitter reduction" and "re-clocking". That would be re-clocking of a self-clocked signal, though. The effects of jitter are pretty easy to dig for, it's probably the only thing you can actually test. However, Ethernet is, by definition, pretty darned noise-immune, even if using standard UTP Cat5. I just don't see what problem they think they are trying to solve.

Looking at the pictures, it does actually have a ground connection.

Yup, sure does. Didn't see that shot. Now, if I could get a copy of the manual I might be able to discern what they suggest for grounding. Lacking that, I think that little stud may go pretty much ignored, and at that point, most of the benefits of shielding the box and cables are moot.

 

The fact that they go into huge detail as to what you'll hear with this thing tells me pretty much all I need to know. You'll pay up for it, get your audiophile net switch, plug it together with their overpriced cables, and you WILL hear a difference, because you've been told what you'll here... even if it's not really there. Every streaming player must, of necessity, include a buffer because data doesn't transfer over a net in a smooth constant rate stream, it flows in packets, and they won't decode into real audio until the real stream is reassembled in the playing device. That means there's already re-clocking, has to be.

 

I'm still calling this an audiophile scam. And I'm afraid time won't tell.

[Pedro Romão]

Ordered one yesterday. Will report back once I have played with it a few days.

 

I Thinks its a re-worked D-Link. This is the one I use:

 

[Al Jones]

Yes, it is a modified D-Link. They make no secret of that. See review HIFISTATEMENT | netmagazine - AQVOX AQ-SWITCH-8

 

[plissken]

T.I.'s paper on Radiated Emissions of 10/100 networking makes it abundantly clear what is the singular Achilles heal of network equipment:

 

The single ended power supply.

[plissken]

Ordered one yesterday. Will report back once I have played with it a few days.

 

WHY would you spend $400 Euro when you could spend WAY less and go fiber, and even less and go Wireless.

 

This makes no sense.

[Mercman]

Ordered one yesterday. Will report back once I have played with it a few days.

 

Al,

 

Thanks for the link.