Lampizator questions

[Lee Henley]

The Atlantic came earlier than expected

 

Untitled by henleymajor, on Flickr

[tedwoods]

I Where does the no-tube-rolling come from?

 

The 4P1L tube that is used in the Atlantic has no known equivalents. However, it has an amazingly good sound, either as a pentode or operated as a triode, which is what Lampi does.

In the Atlantic "Plus", which is tube rectified, one could always swap rectifiers I suppose.

[ALRAINBOW]

There is many threads on audio forums for tube rolling

just do a search. I own so many tubes I have lost count

now I also own many recti including a collection of solid state ones

I have not done a rolling them post as yet

for anyone who is willing to try them do so while they do not do as best as the top two recti I own. They do perform well enough of your not critically listening

they have virtues no other recti has as well. Bass is cleaner and more powerful

after that they are in with the pack to me except the two

that did me yield the best staging and musicality

lastly while I cannot say what is best for anyone here , I can say for me and the tak and we274b play music best

the improvement of staging is amazing but the real virtues are the sound

it has texture and is far better in making it your there.

I used to think all they did was staging and where your seat was at a venue

but after putting some time into them and getting lucky in buying one there clearly is no going back for me on his trip.

[wisnon]

I find the rectifier aspect interesting. The theory is that solid state rectification is actually quite good and instant. Tube rectification can be slower and add a sponginess (a bit like a capacitor) - and then come on strong as they catch up with the current requirements. Maybe something people like, though perhaps not 'real'. A 5AR4 if over-specified (running at a small percent of capacity) may not have any capacitance effect at all. Anyone know the electrical engineering perspective on why tube rectifiers would be 'better' than solid state? And don't get me wrong I'm a big tube fan, just curious about rectifiers. Years ago I've played with changing out my tube rectifiers on a high end tube pre, not sure what I think. Maybe this is a bad question, becomes a 'do USB cables make a difference' - let's keep things upbeat and informative! I don't want to go down a rathole here. Just curious what the concept is.

 

Also, when Lampi says no tube rolling is that because the spec is so tight or is it because they soldered the tubes in or something? (Which couldn't be because they would have to be able to replace current tubes with the same one at some point.). I don't get it - you can replace a tube with an equivalent if it is an equivalent in most of the equipment that uses tubes. Where does the no-tube-rolling come from?

 

In the B7/GG, you can roll output tube TYPES not just brands, ie 300b vs 101d/2a3/6a3/VT52/45/. Even within tube types you have mesh vs solid plate and ST shape vs Globes.

 

In the Atlantic, while you may be able to roll DHP brands, that is it!

[ALRAINBOW]

I asked that question as well

tube recti have a few ways that may be Causing what we Hear. My reason for asking was to simulate one with a solid state.

Here is what I do know

first off a tube is half wave and solid state is full this increases thenoutput voltage a little

the next is voltage sag there is more Ina tube

next is clipping asa solid state does while a rolls softly it's one reason tubes have that tube sound

lastly is smoke and mirrors as in what the tube is made of and its contraction

solid or mesh and whole

lot of other stuff. I say smoke and mirrors simply as no one knows hiw this effects he sound

the tak recti looks very much inside like he we274b but I do have others as well and they sound nothing like the chosen two do. Go figure

[lightminer]

Cool, thanks everyone.

[lightminer]

I don't know if anyone here will know, but if a person buys the stock Atlantic can it be upgraded to tube rectifier later? The 4K price seems pretty amazing to get going, but would be nice to know it could be updated over time, that we aren't locked in.

 

Similarly I don't know if anyone can tell us yet if DSD512 is actually better. So on the other DAC everyone is so excited about with DSD512 that is likely because internally it operates at DSD512 so having HQPlayer get it to 512 does a better job than how it was internally uprezzed to 512. That is my guess anyhow. I thought I saw somewhere where Luckaz said that he wasn't so into DSD512 and though 256 was just fine. The internals here may be really optimized for 256 and/or may play both natively (I.e., 256 won't then get uprezzed to 512 on Atlantic). I'm not sure.

 

Does anyone out there have 512 and can they comment on 256 vs 512 via HQPlayer starting with 16/44.1 content such as Tidal?

[wisnon]

I don't know if anyone here will know, but if a person buys the stock Atlantic can it be upgraded to tube rectifier later? The 4K price seems pretty amazing to get going, but would be nice to know it could be updated over time, that we aren't locked in.

 

Similarly I don't know if anyone can tell us yet if DSD512 is actually better. So on the other DAC everyone is so excited about with DSD512 that is likely because internally it operates at DSD512 so having HQPlayer get it to 512 does a better job than how it was internally uprezzed to 512. That is my guess anyhow. I thought I saw somewhere where Luckaz said that he wasn't so into DSD512 and though 256 was just fine. The internals here may be really optimized for 256 and/or may play both natively (I.e., 256 won't then get uprezzed to 512 on Atlantic). I'm not sure.

 

Does anyone out there have 512 and can they comment on 256 vs 512 via HQPlayer starting with 16/44.1 content such as Tidal?

Cant answer the first question, but why not get it with tube recti if its not that much more. You then can still use the easily available SS plug in rectis that cost $10 online.

 

Latest I heard was that 512 was a bit better. Note that 512 board is "chipless" DSD, while 256 stock DSD is R2R. 2 completely different DSD engines.

[ALRAINBOW]

I concur captain

[genjamon]

OK,, understand what you're saying and where you're coming from.

Appears with your knowledge and acumen that you'd do doing a better job than the reviewer did in detailing the actual strengths, weaknesses, differences between the two. Do hope you share some of that with us.

 

We have completed our session. I don't want to post much at the moment, in hopes the owner of the Atlantic will chime in on this or another forum with his thoughts. What I will say right now is that the Atlantic is a very fine sounding DAC.

 

Some of the combinations we tried:

 

Atlantic with Aum Tortuga passive pre

 

Big7 with Takatsuki 300B and NOS Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier, Big7 with Psvane WE101D-L (same as the other review) and NOS Brimar 5Z4GY - both using Aum Tortuga Passive pre

 

Big7 with Psvane WE101D-L through Big7 integrated volume control

 

All system variables were kept the same between both DACs. They both had Zenwave D4 interconnects into the preamp, and used the same type of Zenwave PL power cord with Furutech FI50 carbon connectors.

 

Rest of the system includes: Line Magnetic 518ia (Psvane WE845's, 1957 metal base Phillips 5ar4 rectifier, Ei pre-war 12ax7's, new stock Gold Lion KT88's), Daedalus DA-RMa V2 speakers, dual 15" subs - fed by Sonore microRendu powered by HDPlex LPS, along with TPLink fiber media connectors, DLNA file server in another room of the house. All power outlets Furutech GTX-®, and all power cables Zenwave PL11 or PL14 with Furutech carbon connectors. Zenwave modded Surge-X power conditioner. In other words, diligence has been paid to lowering noise in all parts of the system, as best I can at the moment.

[t_ram]

I'm the Atlantic owner that went over to genjamon's place for the comparison. I'll just copy what I wrote on another forum but will say I had a great time and apologize to Ben for hogging the sweet spot for most of the session. And after what I heard I'm thinking twice about sending my Atlantic back to get the tube rectifier.

 

I'll keep it short and simple. Most of the session was with the Tortuga as the preamp. We listened to the B7 with the Tak300b's first for a bit before we switched to the Atlantic. After several tracks the Atlantic really came into its own and on certain songs I preferred it to the B7. Listening to several jazz tracks had me tapping my foot and really thought the tone and musicality of the Atlantic was shining through. I also thought the bass was better on the Atlantic with it being more punchy and full sounding. It was a matter of preference at this point as far as what was considered better or preferred. I thought both had a similar size soundstage and depth.

 

Where things changed for me was when the WE 101d's got put in on the B7. I thought the detail and imaging improved while still being musical. Listening to the same track back and forth between dacs I definitely noticed instruments were popping out from everywhere in the soundstage. With the Atlantic it still sounded good but compared to the 101d B7 it almost sounded hazy or fuzzy.

 

Overall I thought the Atlantic held its own and faired much better than I thought it would but in the end the B7 still ruled.

[genjamon]

Yeah, Tom, it was an amazing session for me. Thanks so much for coming down. I learned a lot, and think the Atlantic is great!

 

Here are my thoughts:

Atlantic DAC - Incoming - Page 9

[firedog]

 

Latest I heard was that 512 was a bit better. Note that 512 board is "chipless" DSD, while 256 stock DSD is R2R. 2 completely different DSD engines.

 

Interesting, as Lukasz himself says he doesn't think 512 adds anything....

 

As far as R2R DSD engine, how does this work? Is this using an FPGA or something similar to convert DSD to PCM?

[kaka]

Hi

 

I was interesting to hear you mention that the Psvane WE101D were preferred. Obviously it all comes down to system synergies and taste, but in my system the preferences are:

 

Least preferred Psvane 101

Psvane WE101D

JJ 2A3-40 - quite a step up on the 101s

Most preferred EML 45 meshplates

 

Might be worth checking the Big 7 out again when the 45s arrive

The rectifier has an enormous impact too

[wisnon]

Interesting, as Lukasz himself says he doesn't think 512 adds anything....

 

As far as R2R DSD engine, how does this work? Is this using an FPGA or something similar to convert DSD to PCM?

 

No clue and I ytghink Lukasz may have changed his mind on 512…slightly better than 256 in every way. Is it worth the hassle though? I think he also fels that natic=ve rate sounds best, as you can now hear the filters used in upsampling.

[wisnon]

Hi

 

I was interesting to hear you mention that the Psvane WE101D were preferred. Obviously it all comes down to system synergies and taste, but in my system the preferences are:

 

Least preferred Psvane 101

Psvane WE101D

JJ 2A3-40 - quite a step up on the 101s

Most preferred EML 45 meshplates

 

Might be worth checking the Big 7 out again when the 45s arrive

The rectifier has an enormous impact too

 

I still have to test the WE 101d replicas with the ST shaped original vintage WE 101ds that I have.

[ALRAINBOW]

Your comment about the bass might be the solid state recti perspective I mentioned

the wide spectrum ypu tested with is nice , but having not tried any 45 I think is wrong .

While there is no better there is views missing for you guys. For me the 101 d are a mixed bag . I own the pavane we 101d and I also own the real ones. Some 90 years old . They have there place for me but general music is not one of them. I own the tak 300 b I M not sure I like them , something is pushed forward too far and breaks the balance for me .

By design thie 101 d is linaer more than most tubes are I think. Color is our friend comes to mind here . 2a3 is a hard sounding tube not musical Ina lampi for me. Musical is a made up term that is needed. The founder of my speakers uses it as its not sound it's music . It fits for tube rolling very well. My advise is have another go with a 45 tube As well I would love to read the views

[Doak]

......I think he also fels that natic=ve rate sounds best, as you can now hear the filters used in upsampling.

 

This has been my experience also.

Something maybe gained but much lost in the process.

When everything starts to sound somewhat the same, IMO it's a sign that something is wrong.

[genjamon]

Your comment about the bass might be the solid state recti perspective I mentioned

the wide spectrum ypu tested with is nice , but having not tried any 45 I think is wrong .

While there is no better there is views missing for you guys. For me the 101 d are a mixed bag . I own the pavane we 101d and I also own the real ones. Some 90 years old . They have there place for me but general music is not one of them. I own the tak 300 b I M not sure I like them , something is pushed forward too far and breaks the balance for me .

By design thie 101 d is linaer more than most tubes are I think. Color is our friend comes to mind here . 2a3 is a hard sounding tube not musical Ina lampi for me. Musical is a made up term that is needed. The founder of my speakers uses it as its not sound it's music . It fits for tube rolling very well. My advise is have another go with a 45 tube As well I would love to read the views

 

The plan was definitely to compare with the EML 45 tubes, but Lampizator didn't ship them out in time. Original projection was for them to arrive middle of last week, but they didn't ship until Friday. Delivery tomorrow. Really too bad - a missed opportunity. I'm not sure when Tom and I will get the chance for another comparison. I have a very busy fall lined up.

 

I was interesting to hear you mention that the Psvane WE101D were preferred. Obviously it all comes down to system synergies and taste, but in my system the preferences are:

 

Least preferred Psvane 101

Psvane WE101D

JJ 2A3-40 - quite a step up on the 101s

Most preferred EML 45 meshplates

 

Might be worth checking the Big 7 out again when the 45s arrive

The rectifier has an enormous impact too

 

Yes, I was surprised about the Psvane WE101D, too. However, I would caution that system synergy plays a very big role here, and what worked for us in my system may not be best for others. And likewise, what worked better yesterday may not work best for me if I tweak something else in the system. For example, in the middle of the session, we changed wood inserts on the Daedalus DiD footers in use from a birch to a mesquite, and this changed the sound significantly. We were using the same footers in both DACs. But the mesquite was used universally when we had the 101D's in the system, but my previous listening was with birch under the DAC. I have not yet switched back to the birch to test, but given what we heard in comparing the two on the Atlantic when we swapped, I would think the mesquite would complement the 101D's by adding a more organic tone and richness, and probably adds too much to a 300B. The point is, all this stuff matters a great deal at dialing in the system when we're at this level of refinement.

 

Yes, I'm very interested in the sound of the anni EML 45's. I also have in the house some 20 year old Sovtek 2a3's, and some vintage RCA cunningham 45's. In the past, I have rolled these, along with the stock Psvane 101D's that came with the B7, and several brands of 300B. I have a sense of the general character of each of the types of tubes, even if quality can go way up from the cheaper types of tubes that I've swapped. I do think the 45 will be a great tube, hope so at least, and likely would have been the ideal comparison tube with the Atlantic. It just wasn't in the cards this time. Sorry guys.

[Lee Henley]

Just thought I would update all interested on my experience with the Lampizator Atlantic Dac.

 

I've had the Atlantic in the house for a few weeks and have to say this a very impressive Dac. I'm used to the Lampi sound as I've a few friends who have them, GG, L4, Lite 7 and I've heard them many times. I was also at Munich this year and heard the GG and the Der Siebener so I guess I'm fully switched onto the house sound that Lukas delivers in his designs.

 

i use a Mac Mini using Audirvana + upsampling all PCM to DSD 128, I've also quite a large library of DSD music. Whilst I've had this Dac in the house I've played many many genres of music especially Jazz which I have to say is really really very good at presenting the music, the Atlantic gets out of the way and he music just simply flows, the replay of horns and reed instruments is superb which is a real box ticker for me!

 

Over to rock music, I love Led Zeppelin and a Dac has to be able to play LZ. Playing since I've been lovin you from Zep 3 is fantastic, the sound of the Les Paul is very creamy and very much in the room and The bass pedals from the Hammond organ never overpowers the room, which it can at times!. I've played many rock albums through the Atlantic and as of yet none have disappointed. Back In Black by AC/DC never sounded so bloody good!

 

The version I've got is pretty much standard, no tube recti or superclocks etc, all standard pretty much as it was intended to be, I've been that impressed with the Atlantic I went and brought it, like some have said on here at the price point it's a no brainer!

 

Rest of my system is Autotech Horn Mummy speakers, Audionote UK Empress Silver mono blocks and Hattor Passive preamp

 

Anyon in the UK living in or around the West Midlands fancies having a listen then feel free to drop me a PM and come round for a listen

 

Finally many thanks to Greg at G Point Audio the Lampi distributor for the UK for making this happen

 

Very best

 

Lee

[wisnon]

Get the superclocks later...well worth it. Congrats

[Doak]

Thanks for the report/info Lee.

Great to hear from an Atlantic owner who is familiar with the sound/performance with other Lampi's and other DACS (no doubt).

Enjoy!

[Lee Henley]

Get the superclocks later...well worth it. Congrats

 

I will look into that at a later date, next is to change the Mac Mini for a later version as Im still running on the 2009 model

[VoicesInMyHead]

My story... I've had the Atlantic in my setup for a couple of weeks now. I actually had some initial setup struggle, misunderstandings of switches, strange discovery issues with the microRendu/HQPlayer/Roon combination which I'm not sure is the Atlantics fault, and to all of this a broken tube (probably my fault). But... all of that set aside, I'm very VERY impressed! I'm coming from a lovely "pimped" L4 from last year, I've not heard the Big 7 or Golden Gate, but this kind of realism, holographic sound stage, micro detailed, mesmerizing musical and addictive sound is to me both unique and incredible at the same time. There are probably better things, there always is, but within this price range, I honestly have no idea what that would be. I've got the standard version with superclock and I'm using Ansuz Darkz d-tc decouplers under it.

 

I sold my L4 quicker than I had anticipated and then had to wait for a couple of weeks before I could order the Atlantic and then another week for it to be delivered. Meanwhile I had to live with the internal DAC in my integrated amplifier and eventually I was thinking "hey, it's not that bad!", it got to a point where I almost started to doubt how much difference the DAC can actually do, is it really worth it? Inserting the Atlantic into the chain was an immediate and effective answer to that. It's a totally different beast! Something completely different to what I've ever heard before. I will never doubt the impact DAC's can have again...

 

I used to upsample everything to DSD256 using HQPlayer, then with the microRendu I had to go down to DSD128 DoP but anyway preferred it over my Windows server. I was very curious to take the step towards DSD512 but as we all know Amanero and Linux native support is so so and besides, my microRendu is here to stay. With the Atlantic I'm actually still evaluating using HQPlayer as passthrough only without any upsampling at all, playing both PCM and DSD as they are. Quite a change in plans and direction I was about to take, it almost feels like a small relief in a way, and sound-wise? Not bad, not bad at all....

 

The Atlantic suits me perfectly, I don't feel the need to bury myself into experimenting with different tubes, it's small size (compared to L7 and above) and I love the minimalistic approach, it has everything I want. I could consider the volume/pre-amp option in the future though. No matter what, I think it's a real sweet spot from LampizatOr when it comes to price vs performance! Highly recommend, if anyone is still in doubt....

[Doak]

Thanks for your post, rikard.

It's of particular interest to me since I've been using a Level 4 Gen 5 Lampi for quite some time and have wondered about how the Atlantic might compare. I sure would love to hear one "in the flesh." Maybe I'll find out when my time and $$ loosen up a bit.