Lampizator questions

[christoph]

And good point, but is the euphoria that much better in the DSD stage?

 

Look what I found from Lampi himself regarding your question:

 

"DSD Euforia is exactly the same as Amber, except that Euforia is a DSD-ONLY DAC, without PCM at all. It shares chassis, PSU and analog section with the Amber but it has only DSD filter and USB input. The DSD is our own Fikus design while in the Amber it is an off the shelve Sabre dac chip. Euforia sound quality for DSD is better than Amber in absolute terms, but lack of PCM means that red-book files have to be converted on the fly by the computer. You can use JRiver or Foobar for this and forget about PCM forever."

[tyvo]

Thanks for all your input christoph - much appreciated!

[christoph]

You're welcome

 

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Please let us know on what you decided and how it sounds.

[Forehaven]

Are you saying then that reclocking a USB signal before the DAC eliminates the advantage of asynchronous clocking within a DAC?

 

Just following along as I like his products.

 

Anyone know this?

[Nikhil]

Anyone know this?

 

Forehaven, the original comment was about trying to feed his DAC a DSD signal over SP/DIF.This is not possible. With current Lampizator DACs the only way one can feed a DSD signal is via USB. About re-clocking the signal etc this is pretty common now as far as I know. The Regen, for example, also supplies a fresh clock to the signal before sending it to the DAC.

 

Asynchronous clocking (at the DAC) just means that the downstream device i.e. the DAC, controls the clocking and not the PC/device sending the signal.

 

Regards.

[Forehaven]

Forehaven, the original comment was about trying to feed his DAC a DSD signal over SP/DIF.This is not possible. With current Lampizator DACs the only way one can feed a DSD signal is via USB. About re-clocking the signal etc this is pretty common now as far as I know. The Regen, for example, also supplies a fresh clock to the signal before sending it to the DAC.

 

Asynchronous clocking (at the DAC) just means that the downstream device i.e. the DAC, controls the clocking and not the PC/device sending the signal.

 

Regards.

 

Thank you very much for clarifying that for me Nikhil! Sorry for the confusion, but, kinda the same question then for USB. If you re-clock the signal from pc to dac (Regen), does that negate or minimize the need for Asynch. clocking from a DAC?

 

Thanks

[Nikhil]

Thank you very much for clarifying that for me Nikhil! Sorry for the confusion, but, kinda the same question then for USB. If you re-clock the signal from pc to dac (Regen), does that negate or minimize the need for Asynch. clocking from a DAC?

 

Thanks

 

It works better (much less jitter) because of asynch transfer.

 

First the Regen does not depend on the noisy clock on the PC by using it's own clock and then subsequently the DAC benefits by using it's own clock and the better signal from the Regen.

[Forehaven]

It works better (much less jitter) because of asynch transfer.

 

First the Regen does not depend on the noisy clock on the PC by using it's own clock and then subsequently the DAC benefits by using it's own clock and the better signal from the Regen.

 

Cool, Thanks Nikhil. Interestingly too is now a W4S Recovery that is similar.

[Nikhil]

Positive Feedback: Lampizator Euforia review by Larry Cox

 

The review is a little strange in that Larry finds it hard to give outright praise for the Euforia but keeps qualifying it as the best live sounding gear he has heard at the price. To be honest I don't think he has let the Euforia settle in and his back and forth with a couple of tangents give me the impression that he got glimpses of the Lampi magic.

 

Finally it appears that the reviewer has been Lampized.

 

 

[bmoura]

Positive Feedback: Lampizator Euforia review by Larry Cox

 

The review is a little strange in that Larry finds it hard to give outright praise for the Euforia but keeps qualifying it as the best live sounding gear he has heard at the price. To be honest I don't think he has let the Euforia settle in and his back and forth with a couple of tangents give me the impression that he got glimpses of the Lampi magic.

 

Finally it appears that the reviewer has been Lampized.

 

 

Definitely an interesting review. When I reviewed the Lampizator DSD DAC for Positive Feedback, I never thought of comparing it to a "nudie bar"!

 

As you note, by the end of the review he says it's "a very special DAC". I'm guessing we will hear more as the burn-in phase continues.

 

Lampizator's 5th Generation DSD DAC

[Doak]

Agree that Cox didn't get nearly all that's possible out of the Euforia during the course of his review period. Good news for his readers is that with some time & tweaking its sound WILL get significantly better.

 

BTW: The imbedded photo of the DAC interior, I feel, is misleading.

No way that is a stock Euforia.

[YashN]

The review is a little strange in that Larry finds it hard to give outright praise for the Euforia but keeps qualifying it as the best live sounding gear he has heard at the price. To be honest I don't think he has let the Euforia settle in and his back and forth with a couple of tangents give me the impression that he got glimpses of the Lampi magic.

 

Finally it appears that the reviewer has been Lampized.

 

Weird review indeed, as he's side-tracked for a long while about 'Euforia' meaning it should sound 'euphonic', then even nearly complains that the sound isn't 'warm' or 'coloured' enough even after Lukasz has said he wants the device to be as neutral as possible, etc...

[YashN]

Agree that Cox didn't get nearly all that's possible out of the Euforia during the course of his review period.

 

Maybe he did since he ends up actually buying the review item.

 

However, reading the article, you get the impression this is a less-than-perfect DAC, when in reality it appears to aim for what we're all looking for: making digital sound like a very accurate portrayl of the live music (at least when it is live), or 'hi-fi'.

[Doak]

Maybe he did since he ends up actually buying the review item.

 

However, reading the article, you get the impression this is a less-than-perfect DAC, when in reality it appears to aim for what we're all looking for: making digital sound like a very accurate portrayl of the live music (at least when it is live), or 'hi-fi'.

 

This interesting tidbit from Gopher via the Lampi Forum over at AC:

"Larry does a great job of capturing the essence of the core sound we are going for into words. He is planning to make this a multi-party review documenting things as he improves his transport from his office computer."

[tedwoods]

I have a modest micro-Zuma feeding the Euforia and it sounds pretty damn amazing from what I reckon...

( http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/state-euforia-26835/ )

Recently however, I've had a "strange" experience: a friend has asked me to "transform" his i3 Lenovo laptop into a "digital transport". I explained that miracles can't happen, but its performance could be certainly improved upon. I had a quick listen in my system prior to the "operation" and frankly the sound I got was disappointing. If I didn't know better I would have hastily dismissed the DAC as the culprit. After optimizing the laptop however (nothing extravagant: trimmed down W10, free version of Fidelizer, properly set-up JRiver, ifi Purifier2 - I couldn't do much about the external usb HDD anyway...), the sound was much better, quite good actually! Also, there were absolutely no stutters when up-sampling Red Book to DSD 128 via JRiver. But of course the fact remains that it was nowhere near the stupendously good sound I am getting with my CAPS. This leads me to believe that a lot of people, reviewers notwithstanding, tend to underestimate the importance of a good source, especially when critical up-sampling is performed and the blatant fact that you just can't get top performance from both software and hardware alike when using un-optimized or sub-standard computer front-ends. I do not know if the review mentioned above was conducted with a Mac mini as a source (that's what I gathered from reading the review- perhaps, I am mistaken...) but that seems (if I am permitted to use an analog domain ...analogy) the equivalent of doing critical listening with a Shindo phono-stage using a DJ approved turntable. There is no law against it, but... The other thing that also becomes clear after my conversations with many who want to make the leap to DSD, is the need for a fuss free ready made solution of an accessible "mean up-sampling machine", or so to speak.

Audiophiles -who have for decades learned to live in a world of off the shelf solutions (oh...the horror!)- can then benefit from the obvious merits of DSD, as my blissful experience with the Euforia is not something unique but rather something that can be replicated, me thinks...

[Nikhil]

This interesting tidbit from Gopher via the Lampi Forum over at AC:

"Larry does a great job of capturing the essence of the core sound we are going for into words. He is planning to make this a multi-party review documenting things as he improves his transport from his office computer."

 

Interesting! At least it explains why Larry Cox did not seem to get the most out of the Euforia.

 

Specially with DSD it seems to me that everything in the chain affects the sound. On general use computers - the HDDs and SMPS would be the usual suspects. He does seem to have used a decent USB cable in the end but did he really use a printer USB cable to start with? I just assumed it was an attempt at humor.

[MicJames]

Are you saying then that reclocking a USB signal before the DAC eliminates the advantage of asynchronous clocking within a DAC?

 

Just following along as I like his products.

 

It wouldn't eliminate the advantage, but I think it would be pointless since the clock is provided on the USB side rather than the data transport side. The USB input at the DAC is the "master" in the master/slave clock relationship in the asynchronous set up, I believe. That is my understanding from reading, but I've no first-hand experience with it.

[firedog]

It wouldn't eliminate the advantage, but I think it would be pointless since the clock is provided on the USB side rather than the data transport side. The USB input at the DAC is the "master" in the master/slave clock relationship in the asynchronous set up, I believe. That is my understanding from reading, but I've no first-hand experience with it.

 

Nope. Reclock the signal before the DAC and it makes the job of the USB receiver on the DAC that much easier. Part of what is behind the improvment heard when using all the USB add-on devices now popular.

[MicJames]

How does that work if the clocking is coming from the USB module on the DAC? And I legitimately mean that as a question, not a disagreement. I'd like to understand it if I can. Thanks

[firedog]

How does that work if the clocking is coming from the USB module on the DAC? And I legitimately mean that as a question, not a disagreement. I'd like to understand it if I can. Thanks

 

My understanding is this. The DAC in this case is being fed, essentially from the intermediate reclocking device, and not the PC. So the USB module in the DAC is controlling the clocking as master, but it is controlling the timing/feed to itself from the Regen or other device. If there is no device like the Regen in between, then the DAC controls the timing/feed from the PC to itself.

[Foggie]

Looks like Amanero now supports native DSD on Linux. This should be good for the HQP/NAA crowd

 

http://www.amanero.com/drivers/nativeDSD.txt

[Doak]

Looks like Amanero now supports native DSD on Linux. This should be good for the HQP/NAA crowd

 

http://www.amanero.com/drivers/nativeDSD.txt[/quote

 

My Auralic Aries runs on Linux. Maybe I should contact them regarding a "fix" in their firmware?

[Foggie]

Looks like Amanero now supports native DSD on Linux. This should be good for the HQP/NAA crowd

 

http://www.amanero.com/drivers/nativeDSD.txt[/quote

 

My Auralic Aries runs on Linux. Maybe I should contact them regarding a "fix" in their firmware?

 

Unless the Aries uses an Amanero Combo USB board, I don't think this is applicable to the Aries no? Or maybe I'm not understanding the question.

 

The significance of this development is that now if your DAC is using an Amanero board (like Lampi uses) you can use a NAA device (that is of unix flavor) along with HQP and not have to use DoP since it would then stream native DSD (upsample PCM => DSD). Of course the Linux distro would have to be configured with these new settings. This is assuming I am understanding all of this correctly

[JohnSwenson]

As to the posts about USB clocking there are several different clocks involved, they all do different things.

 

First some details on how USB audio works, this will hopefully clear a lot of things up.

 

In USB high speed mode (which most modern DACs use) the bit rate is fixed at 480Mbps. Data comes in packets, which are fixed at 8000 packets per second.

 

In order to meet the data rate of a particular sample rate, the number of samples per packet is changed. But this is not fine enough grained to match the sample rate exactly, so the samples per packet is varied over time. Thus there might be 5 packets with 10 samples, then one packet with 11 samples, then back to 5 packets with 10 samples etc. By varying the samples per packet almost any overall sample rate can be accommodated.

 

In adaptive mode the OS determines what these packet ratios should be and just shoves the packets out with that pattern, the DAC has to adjust its clock to meet the average rate.

 

With asynchronous mode the same thing happens, BUT the DAC keeps track of the average data rate, if it is too fast or too slow relative to the local clock in the DAC, it sends a packet to the computer telling it to speed up or slow down. The computer responds by slightly varying the ratio of different sized packets, thus slightly changing the average data rate.

 

Thus in an asynch DAC we have the local clock which is set to be some multiple of the sample rate of the audio data. This is the critical clock. There is also the USB clock, which determines the data rate over the USB bus. This clock has nothing what so ever to do with the local audio clock.

 

The clock in a device like the REGEN is related to the USB bus clock, it cleans up the timing of the DATA on the bus. It doesn't have to be synchronized to the USB clock in the computer because the data on the bus is in packets with dead space in between them. Thus if the REGEN clock has a slightly different frequency than the computer USB clock it doesn't matter, they re-sync every packet.

 

I hope this clears things up a little bit.

 

John S.

[stewartg]

Just acquired a lampi L4 Gen 4/5 with amanero USB input board and does anybody know if it uses the 5v from the computer coming down the USB cable or can it be used with a data only USB cable.

Thanks stewart