Mutec MC-3+

[Lightstream]

Hello,

Anybody has tested the Mutec MC-3+ USB with a Logitec Squeezebox Touch ? Is it compatible ?

Thanks

 

Do you want to connect your SBT with the Mutec via USB (with the hub workaround)? As standard outputs the SBT actually offers only SPDIF and Toslink.

 

I use the predecessor, the Mutec MC-3+ without USB, with my Squeezebox Touch. SBT -> RCA out -> Straight Wire Silverlink II (RCA) -> Adapter Cinch to AES/EBU -> AES/EBU in Mutec -> AES/EBU out -> Kimber Kable Orchid (AES/EBU) -> in m2Tech Young. Both standard outputs work fine with the non-USB Mutec.

 

The newer USB version is supposed to be even better concerning signal/sound improvement, especially after the latest software update. With the standard SBT outputs there shouldn't be any issues.

[r11bordo]

Do you want to connect your SBT with the Mutec via USB (with the hub workaround)? As standard outputs the SBT actually offers only SPDIF and Toslink.

Exactly, you can use the SBT USB output with the EDO plugin for several years. See this URL (Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput). This pluging is recomended for a better audio result.

But I would be sure if SBT works under Linux with UAC2 compliant kernel, it is enough for the Mutec USB interface.

[tne]

The Regen will be the weak spot. I sold mine. My chain is :

Bryston BDP-2>Intona>PS LANDRover>Intona>Recovery>Mutec-3+USB>Mutec-3+USB>PS Audio Direct Stream dac.

 

I can understand the dual Mutec configuration, and only you know what sounds best in your system, but I am strong believer in signal path minimization, whenever possible, along with the connecting cables that are required.

 

Have you tried removing the two Intonas, the PSLANDRover, and the Recovery, and given a critical (hopefully blind) listen? I would be very surprised if these elements made an even 0.01% improvement in detectable sound quality. Of course this is my opinion, and I have not and cannot make any objective evaluation of what differences you may hear with these added elements.

 

Bryston -> Mutec -> Mutec ->PS DAC would be my suggestion.

[westy]

I can understand the dual Mutec configuration, and only you know what sounds best in your system, but I am strong believer in signal path minimization, whenever possible, along with the connecting cables that are required.

 

Have you tried removing the two Intonas, the PSLANDRover, and the Recovery, and given a critical (hopefully blind) listen? I would be very surprised if these elements made an even 0.01% improvement in detectable sound quality. Of course this is my opinion, and I have not and cannot make any objective evaluation of what differences you may hear with these added elements.

 

Bryston -> Mutec -> Mutec ->PS DAC would be my suggestion.

 

I agree with you that in MOST instances the simpler, shorter path is the best.

But... I have tried as you suggested and also every possible combination of the items that could be tried. The result is that every item in the chain in my order cleans up the signal bringing the sound stage deeper and deeper. I am using the shortest USB Curious Cables available. And, to my surprise, my USB chain FAR exceeds XLR/AES connections.

[tboooe]

Westy, may I ask of all the devices between the Bryston and Mutec which one had the most positive impact? Also, could you please explainwhat you mean when you say the soundstage got deeper? Do you mean that the music got more of a 3d effect or do you mean the music seemed to emanate further behind the front plane of the speakers?

 

 

I agree with you that in MOST instances the simpler, shorter path is the best.

But... I have tried as you suggested and also every possible combination of the items that could be tried. The result is that every item in the chain in my order cleans up the signal bringing the sound stage deeper and deeper. I am using the shortest USB Curious Cables available. And, to my surprise, my USB chain FAR exceeds XLR/AES connections.

[westy]

Westy, may I ask of all the devices between the Bryston and Mutec which one had the most positive impact? Also, could you please explainwhat you mean when you say the soundstage got deeper? Do you mean that the music got more of a 3d effect or do you mean the music seemed to emanate further behind the front plane of the speakers?

 

I would say that the Intona is the one unit that impressed me the most. And it does not need a power supply!. But, combining the various units together is greater than the sum of the individual parts.

The soundstage becomes more dimensional with more distance between instruments, vocals etc. Instead of the music coming at or near the front plane of the speakers some of it goes way back and everywhere in between. Quite impressive.

[sebackman]

Hi all,

 

Is it possible to use the MC3+ USB with adaptable input and fixed output settings?

 

I would like to feed source native sample rate from a computer (24bit) via USB, ie 44,1, 48 or 96Khz as it comes from the original file to keep "bit perfect" when possible.

 

Output must to be 24bit and 96kHz always with word clock to switch off sample rate converters downstream.

 

Is that possible without changing setting on the Mutec everytime the input sample rate changes.

 

Kind regards

//RoB

[baconbrain]

I have recently added a Trinnov ST-2 to my system and am trying to determine what the best clock settings would be for it together with the Mutec.

 

Within the Trinnov I have the possibility of using it's own internal clock or feeding it with an external word clock / signal in slave mode.

 

Since I have never really understood how the clock generator idea works, perhaps someone could recommend the best approach / settings?

 

Thanks.

[soundlogic]

Any further on Mac based software update interface?

[baconbrain]

I have recently added a Trinnov ST-2 to my system and am trying to determine what the best clock settings would be for it together with the Mutec.

 

Within the Trinnov I have the possibility of using it's own internal clock or feeding it with an external word clock / signal in slave mode.

 

Since I have never really understood how the clock generator idea works, perhaps someone could recommend the best approach / settings?

 

Thanks.

 

Perhaps I should be a bit more specific in my question?

 

Situation: It appears the the Trinnov automatically assumes slave mode for the clock synchronization (external source) based upon the audio signal (PCM) received from the Mutec via Coax.

 

Question: Reading the Mutec manual it seems that one can use a dedicated connection only for the word clock signal synchronization generated by the Mutec and the devices it is connected to. Is this correct? If so, is there an advantage to this as opposed to synchronizing over the connection which is used to transport the audio (pcm) signal?

[julian.david]

Hi all,

 

Is it possible to use the MC3+ USB with adaptable input and fixed output settings?

 

I would like to feed source native sample rate from a computer (24bit) via USB, ie 44,1, 48 or 96Khz as it comes from the original file to keep "bit perfect" when possible.

 

Output must to be 24bit and 96kHz always with word clock to switch off sample rate converters downstream.

 

Is that possible without changing setting on the Mutec everytime the input sample rate changes.

 

Kind regards

//RoB

 

Hi RoB,

 

The MC-3+USB does not perform a sampling rate conversion or upsampling, which would be required to do what you're asking. You would need something like MUTEC's MC-6 to do that. So you could build a killer chain of an MC-3+USB followed by an MC-6, but please also note that for best sound quality it is generally preferable to stay away from sampling rate conversions unless you absolutely have to. Yes, some DACs sound better at a specific sampling rate, but whether or not that outweighs the negative impact of the sampling rate conversion will depend on the specific devices and essentially impossible to predict. So you'll have to let your ears be the judge.

 

Hope this helps,

Julian

[julian.david]

Any further on Mac based software update interface?

 

 

Hi soundlogic,

 

We're still working on it. Unfortunately, our key developer has been sick for some time so we've had some delays in our efforts to work out the last remaining kinks.

 

I hope to have a more specific update for you soon!

 

Julian

[davide256]

Hi RoB,

 

The MC-3+USB does not perform a sampling rate conversion or upsampling, which would be required to do what you're asking. You would need something like MUTEC's MC-6 to do that. So you could build a killer chain of an MC-3+USB followed by an MC-6, but please also note that for best sound quality it is generally preferable to stay away from sampling rate conversions unless you absolutely have to. Yes, some DACs sound better at a specific sampling rate, but whether or not that outweighs the negative impact of the sampling rate conversion will depend on the specific devices and essentially impossible to predict. So you'll have to let your ears be the judge.

 

Hope this helps,

Julian

 

I am curious to your observations on oversampling. I haven't found its reduction in digital artifacts to be worth the cost in blunted background music detail for 44.1 /16 recordings

[julian.david]

I am curious to your observations on oversampling. I haven't found its reduction in digital artifacts to be worth the cost in blunted background music detail for 44.1 /16 recordings

 

I wasn't referring to oversampling as much as sampling rate conversion in general, particularly conversions that reduce the sampling rate or that are not even multiples of the base sampling rate such as 44.1 to 48 or vice versa. If we're strictly talking oversampling, I have heard really great results of that.

 

It's pretty hard to come up with generalizations of a rather complex topic and I can definitely see the appeal of RoB's wish to just upsample to 96k at all times. The purist in me though would really want to have a close listen whether the additional processing yields any improvement or not. It may also be interesting to check if it makes a difference whether the upsampling takes place prior to the re-clocking (e.g. as part of the media player) or post re-clocking.

 

Julian

[sebackman]

Hi Julian,

 

Thank you for the quick reply.

 

I'm a bit confused here. When reading the MC-3 manual I get the impression the MC-3 allows different clock rates in and out. Would that not in general be regarded as a SRC?

 

-Or is the limitation that it can only output multiples of the incoming pulse rates. I can't seem to find in the manual that outgoing clock necessarily have to be a multiple of incoming clock if using the internal clock for output and asynchronous USB for input (ie MC-3 steers the tempo of the pulse train from the computer)? Or is this a USB only limitation?

 

I thought that the MC-3 could receive virtually any sample rate and re-clock and send out virtually any clock rate? Or is the fact that 44,1 and “computer based” clock rates are not pure multipliers and I can go from 48Khz to 96Khz (or any other multiple of 48) out, but not from 44,1kHz (Reb Book) to 48/96Khz (computer based clock rate)?

 

What happens if I feed MC-3 24bit/44,1Hz in and set it to “internal clock“ and a rate of 96Khz for output. Or is that not possible? If possible, what will then be sent out over the AES and word clock connectors? Or a 44,1kHz fed in via BNC/RCA from a CD player for that matter.

 

If I do set the computer to feed 24/96Khz via USB to MC-3 and accept SRC in the computer, then MC-3 can output 24/96Khz. Right?

 

MC-3 would then re-clock (strip original clock and provide new low jitter clock) to the signal and also provide 96Khz word clock out. If such SRC (native 44,1 to 96kHz) is done in Windows10, would that be very noticeable sonic inferior to an external SRC, MC-6 for instance?

 

The reason for asking is that I run a DSP/DAC that can run only 48/96Khz internal clock (any bit rate). It can take any other sample rate also but then an internal SRC in the DSP will re-sample/re-clock to either of the above.

 

I would like to have my DSP/DAC and “USB sound card” run on the same clock and turn off the SRC in either unit to reduce digital artifacts/jitter. The DSP/DAC is pro grade equipment and can receive both AES and SPDIF and can both receive and provide word clock (48 or 96kHz).

 

 

Kind regards and thank you

//RoB

[Aleg]

MC-3 does not change sample rates. So sample rate in is sample rate out.

[tboooe]

MC-3 does not change sample rates. So sample rate in is sample rate out.

Just to add to this...the settings for sample rate output on the Mutec only applies to DSD files which it converts to PCM prior to output. As Aleg says, sample rate in = sample rate out for PCM files.

[johnVO]

Hello and sorry for interrupting the row of the thread.

I have been trying for an hour to connect the cypershaft clock 10M with the mutec but the result is zero.

The settings are : EXTERNAL /10M / 44.1 but it doesn't lock and the blue light indicator doesn't light...

 

Could anyone help me? I attach a photo...

[One and a half]

Hello and sorry for interrupting the row of the thread.

I have been trying for an hour to connect the cypershaft clock 10M with the mutec but the result is zero.

The settings are : EXTERNAL /10M / 44.1 but it doesn't lock and the blue light indicator doesn't light...

 

Could anyone help me? I attach a photo...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28864[/ATTACH]

 

Is the clock connected to input 10, and what's the input you use?

[johnVO]

Usb..

[One and a half]

Usb..

 

On the mode menu, select extern + reclock. If you play pcm, keep the wclck and usb LEDs on. If if you play DSD, select usb + S/P-DIF in the reference.

This will allow the clock LEDs to switch on, so select the two centre LEDs 176.4.

Hope this helps, I'm reading from the manual, the black dots are led on BTW. For a while I thought the white dots were on, my impression differs obviously!

[johnVO]

Thank you, I will try!

[johnVO]

The problem remains...I can't understand why...

[gldgate]

The problem remains...I can't understand why...

 

As poster one and a half asked, are you using the top wclk connector (labeled 10 in Mutec manual)? Are you using a 50-ohm cable?

 

While my set up is different than yours I have gone Cybershaft>Mutec without issue so it should work.

[One and a half]

As poster one and a half asked, are you using the top wclk connector (labeled 10 in Mutec manual)? Are you using a 50-ohm cable?

 

While my set up is different than yours I have gone Cybershaft>Mutec without issue so it should work.

 

Thanks gldgate for the reply, am battling a bad head cold, so fault finding is kind of difficult at the moment. I think if the Mode is set to Extern only, the MC-3+USB just acts like a clock generator, seem to recall this when connecting a Tascam DA-3000 recorder.