The iFi iUSB Power Supply - Neat Tweak & Upgrade for USB DAC

[4est]

One twisted pair carries power and the other twisted pair carries signal. The CAT6 wires are better than the wires used in generic USB cables. Also, not having the signal wires and power wires inside the same cable would reduce the interference between the two.

 

The two headed version, from my understanding, is intended to ensure drawing more power from the computer since not very USB port has the same power output level in a computer. I don't think this version is critical for use with iUSB because iUSB will recreate the clean 5v power for you.

 

I hate to be a pedantic buzz kill, but AFAIK, once removed from the sheath, those wires are CAT5 at best. CAT6 has a plastic X that is used to maintain clearances whereby creating the CAT6 designator. Not that they'll not be fine however.

[wisnon]

Do you know the price?

 

No, but they allude to them being cheap, with terms like "unheard of at this pricepoint".

 

I will try to find out though...

[tubesound]

I hate to be a pedantic buzz kill, but AFAIK, once removed from the sheath, those wires are CAT5 at best. CAT6 has a plastic X that is used to maintain clearances whereby creating the CAT6 designator. Not that they'll not be fine however.

 

The wires inside a generic USB cable is worse than CAT5. And the generic USB cable doesn't have a 'plastic X' inside. My intention of this experiment is to improve over a generic USB cable at least. Some more expensive USB calbes have internal shielding between signal and power lines but my DIY cable at least outperformed the Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable (not an expensive cable though). So it seems CAT6 wires have some merits and phsyically separating the wires helps too.

[4est]

The wires inside a generic USB cable is worse than CAT5. And the generic USB cable doesn't have a 'plastic X' inside. My intention of this experiment is to improve over a generic USB cable at least. Some more expensive USB calbes have internal shielding between signal and power lines but my DIY cable at least outperformed the Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable (not an expensive cable though). So it seems CAT6 wires have some merits and phsyically separating the wires helps too.

 

You missed my point, but while we're on the topic, you might want to shield the separated cables next time as well.

[tubesound]

You missed my point, but while we're on the topic, you might want to shield the separated cables next time as well.

 

Yeah, I know. I just tried to place the two twisted pairs so that they don't have physical contact. Maybe the easiest way to do is to tape them apart but it won't look pretty. Any suggestions?

[4est]

Yeah, I know. I just tried to place the two twisted pairs so that they don't have physical contact. Maybe the easiest way to do is to tape them apart but it won't look pretty. Any suggestions?

 

Hmm, something like cotton or empty CAT5/6 tubing between the shielded wires with an occasional or continuous shrink wrap band, then cover the whole with tech flex and treat the ends as you did before.

[Liam]

Hi Tubesound,

 

Just a pair of signal cables, no 5v? Very tidy job, regardless, I shall follow in your footsteps. My Young DAC doesn't require power at the USB input. I would like some pretty gold plugs like yours though...

 

Alan are you sure the Young doesn't require power on the USB input? I'm using an Aqvox PSU currently with the Young and to test if power was required at the USB input I plugged out the Aqvox PSU unit from the wall socket while leaving the Aqvox USB connector inline. Young continued to be powered by the M2tech Palmer PSU, but just a few horizontal leds were displayed, but no resolution data.

[Alan Brown]

Well, now you have said that I am completely unsure!

 

This is what I did in an idle twenty minutes: Disconnected the Young from my usual MAC, took a bog standard USB cable & chopped it in half. I reconnected the ends after trimming most of the length out, leaving me twenty cm of length. The only internal wire I did not reconnect was the red 5v wire.

 

I then connected the Young to my W7 laptop (for the first ever time), installed the USB driver, and played a few choons. Seemed to work fine, unless I have misunderstood how a USB cable is constructed (quite possible)?

 

I thought the Young incorporated HiFace technology, in the form of a stripped down EVO internally. That being the case, does not the EVO have it's own power supply?

[tubesound]

Hmm, something like cotton or empty CAT5/6 tubing between the shielded wires with an occasional or continuous shrink wrap band, then cover the whole with tech flex and treat the ends as you did before.

 

Sounds good. Thanks. I might give it a try or if iFi's calbe is not expensive, I'll buy that one instead.

[4est]

Sounds good. Thanks. I might give it a try or if iFi's calbe is not expensive, I'll buy that one instead.

 

Well, I am a DIY guy, and their labor may not be cheap. You can connect the dots...

[ckpiv]

IFi I ordered November 16th arrived today via US postal service. Bonnie at Avatar said she expected to ship 1st week of December Great people to deal with!

[DM]

IFi I ordered November 16th arrived today via US postal service. Bonnie at Avatar said she expected to ship 1st week of December Great people to deal with!

 

How did it sound in your system?

 

Love to know.

[Liam]

Well, now you have said that I am completely unsure!

 

This is what I did in an idle twenty minutes: Disconnected the Young from my usual MAC, took a bog standard USB cable & chopped it in half. I reconnected the ends after trimming most of the length out, leaving me twenty cm of length. The only internal wire I did not reconnect was the red 5v wire.

 

I then connected the Young to my W7 laptop (for the first ever time), installed the USB driver, and played a few choons. Seemed to work fine, unless I have misunderstood how a USB cable is constructed (quite possible)?

 

I thought the Young incorporated HiFace technology, in the form of a stripped down EVO internally. That being the case, does not the EVO have it's own power supply?

 

Well Alan your response caused me to revisit in my own system. This time instead of disconnecting the Aqvox while while the m2tech Young dac was switched on I booted with the Aqvox unplugged. This time the Young displayed the input (USB). It was near 2am and I listened at very low volume (wife in bed ), but it seemed that a 44khz file played ok. However, an 88khz file played at what seemed half speed, presumably because the dac did not recognise the higher resolution. Similarly higher res were even slower. The system became sluggishly responsive as well. I monitored Mac Audio Midi to ensure the resolutions were changing and they were.

 

So it seems that the Young USB input needs the voltage, but whether the interface, (Hiface based), is actually driven by it or the Young psu is the question outstanding for me.

 

Did you successfully play high res files, as against only 44khz? Did your Young display operate to reflect the resolutions? If so, baring any wiring error on your part, maybe the input only requires the USB ground? I have emailed today Pietro, the M2tech engineer, to enquire what the the Young USB input requires to operate correctly. I'll post any reply.

[wisnon]

Do you know the price?

 

Regarding the USB Cable, they cannot say anything officially. But well below iUSB Powerprice, well below does NIT mean $10 or so though...

 

I estimate that it will be some $40 to $100...other therabouts.

[Liam]

Well Alan your response caused me to revisit in my own system. This time instead of disconnecting the Aqvox while while the m2tech Young dac was switched on I booted with the Aqvox unplugged. This time the Young displayed the input (USB). It was near 2am and I listened at very low volume (wife in bed ), but it seemed that a 44khz file played ok. However, an 88khz file played at what seemed half speed, presumably because the dac did not recognise the higher resolution. Similarly higher res were even slower. The system became sluggishly responsive as well. I monitored Mac Audio Midi to ensure the resolutions were changing and they were.

 

So it seems that the Young USB input needs the voltage, but whether the interface, (Hiface based), is actually driven by it or the Young psu is the question outstanding for me.

 

Did you successfully play high res files, as against only 44khz? Did your Young display operate to reflect the resolutions? If so, baring any wiring error on your part, maybe the input only requires the USB ground? I have emailed today Pietro, the M2tech engineer, to enquire what the the Young USB input requires to operate correctly. I'll post any reply.

 

Well Alan here is Pietro's reply:-

 

Hello Liam,

The +5V from the USB are used as sensing, simply if they are present the main micro-controller knows that a USB cable are been connected, thus they are necessary although do not power nothing.

 

To be pointed out that there is no a electrical connection between the USB receiver and the rest of the board, they communicate to exchange data is made by a iCoupler® technology (property of the Analog Devices).

 

 

Best regards

 

 

Ing. Pietro Cipriano

FW Engineer

M2TECH Srl

 

Il 07/12/2012 13:01, Liam O'Brien ha scritto:

Hi Pietro,

 

I am a very satisfied user of the M2tech Young dac. There is quite a

lot of interest at present in seeking to improve the performance of

various USB dacs by interrupting the possibly polluted 5V power supply

from such as a Mac Mini which I personally use.

 

Can you tell me does the Young dac require the 5V at the USB input to

operate correctly, and does that 5v actually drive the input circuits?

Any details you can supply, or contribution to this debate, would be

very helpful at this time. Just to inform you I am also using the

Palmer supply to the dac for better performance.

 

Regards,

 

Liam.

 

Here is a link to the iCoupler technology referred too. Plenty more online.

Analog Devices : Analog Dialogue : iCoupler

 

I have an iUSB Power unit on the way to me and it will be interesting to evaluate it in the context of the m2tech Young dac USB input configuration. My view was that the Aqvox improved performance, but I will re evaluate both to see what can be learned. I like the idea of separating power and data in the cable as well and I like Tubesounds idea. I look forward to iFi version as well. The twisted pair construction will have some rejection of common mode radio and electromagnetic contamination. Keeping the power and data cables a small distance apart should be sufficient to prevent cross contamination from the power line.

[cclay]

wow, so my iusbpower arrived in today's mail. i just plugged it in about thirty minutes ago. the results are better than i expected, an obvious upgrade and a real coup for the money.

 

my results echo those of others here re newfound clarity, instrument separation, dynamism and so on. the funny thing about noisefloor, in my experience, is that you don't know how high it is, qualitatively, until you lower it even more.

 

i think one of the earlier posts about this device said it was about a 7% upgrade, but my experience puts it at least there, if not closer to 10%. no doubt a lot of bang for the buck. i'll definitely consider their usb cable in the future.

 

just for reference, my system is a mac mini running the latest pure music, connected to the ifi iusbpower, and from there to a halide bridge. the bridge runs to my naim dac, which has naim's xps dr power supply upgrade. i have transparent's musicwave plus interconnects and speaker cables, and simaudio's i3.3 integrated amplifier powering devore fidelity 3xl speakers. (next upgrade will be the amplifier. i have my sights set on simaudio's 600i, which i'll try to buy before my upgrade window, through simaudio's "reach for the moon" buyback program, expires.)

 

i'd love to hear about others' experiences with this device too!

[Emcee]

wow, so my iusbpower arrived in today's mail. i just plugged it in about thirty minutes ago. the results are better than i expected, an obvious upgrade and a real coup for the money.

 

my results echo those of others here re newfound clarity, instrument separation, dynamism and so on. the funny thing about noisefloor, in my experience, is that you don't know how high it is, qualitatively, until you lower it even more.

 

i think one of the earlier posts about this device said it was about a 7% upgrade, but my experience puts it at least there, if not closer to 10%. no doubt a lot of bang for the buck. i'll definitely consider their usb cable in the future.

 

just for reference, my system is a mac mini running the latest pure music, connected to the ifi iusbpower, and from there to a halide bridge. the bridge runs to my naim dac, which has naim's xps dr power supply upgrade. i have transparent's musicwave plus interconnects and speaker cables, and simaudio's i3.3 integrated amplifier powering devore fidelity 3xl speakers. (next upgrade will be the amplifier. i have my sights set on simaudio's 600i, which i'll try to buy before my upgrade window, through simaudio's "reach for the moon" buyback program, expires.)

 

i'd love to hear about others' experiences with this device too!

 

Are you using a "Y" cable or just a regular cable? I just received one from Elijah Audio and I'm expecting my iFi unit will arrive early next week. As usual I'm keeping my expectations realistic but am nonetheless looking forward as to what improvements both these items will bring to the party.

[cclay]

Are you using a "Y" cable or just a regular cable? I just received one from Elijah Audio and I'm expecting my iFi unit will arrive early next week. As usual I'm keeping my expectations realistic but am nonetheless looking forward as to what improvements both these items will bring to the party.

 

just the regular cable that comes with the ifi. i thought about picking up a more expensive cable, but now i think i will wait to see the reviews of ifi's Y cable. then i'll either buy that or make a different decision.

 

the waiting game is hard, but in this case, i think, you'll find it worth it.

[Emcee]

just the regular cable that comes with the ifi. i thought about picking up a more expensive cable, but now i think i will wait to see the reviews of ifi's Y cable. then i'll either buy that or make a different decision.

 

the waiting game is hard, but in this case, i think, you'll find it worth it.

 

iFi cable? I keep hearing about its existing but have never actually seen one for sale. The Synergistic Research "Y" cable and even the "affordable" King Rex cost more than my USB converter + power supply combined. Seems like a lot of moolah. Hopefully the Elijah will do the trick.

[cclay]

iFi cable? I keep hearing about its existing but have never actually seen one for sale. The Synergistic Research "Y" cable and even the "affordable" King Rex cost more than my USB converter + power supply combined. Seems like a lot of moolah. Hopefully the Elijah will do the trick.

 

right, i don't think their model is for sale yet. i'll have to take a look at the three you mention.

[burnspbesq]

My iFi Micro USB power supply made an immediately noticeable improvement in the performance of the USB-powered Resonessence Concero DAC. I consider it to be $216 (including shipping) well spent.

 

FWIW, it also substantially improves the performance of the Dragonfly, but that combo looks really silly and kinda defeats the purpose of the Dragonfly for me (a mobile/travel solution).

[wisnon]

iFi cable? I keep hearing about its existing but have never actually seen one for sale. The Synergistic Research "Y" cable and even the "affordable" King Rex cost more than my USB converter + power supply combined. Seems like a lot of moolah. Hopefully the Elijah will do the trick.

Didnt see my earlier post?

 

Goes on sale in Jan 2013 and cost will be much lower than the iUSB power but certainly not as low as $10. I am guessing $40 and up.

[ted_b]

Blake, Any update on your Kingrex dual conduit USB cable? I am a fan of the Wireworld USB (Platinum Starlight) and wondered how Kingrex's dual conduit version of it sounds with the iFi. I assume it is less $$ than the Acoustic Revive 1.0SP? (I should check 6Moons, they reveiwed them both if I remember).

[Blake]

Blake, Any update on your Kingrex dual conduit USB cable? I am a fan of the Wireworld USB (Platinum Starlight) and wondered how Kingrex's dual conduit version of it sounds with the iFi. I assume it is less $$ than the Acoustic Revive 1.0SP? (I should check 6Moons, they reveiwed them both if I remember).

 

 

Ted: I hit a bit of a snag. I ordered and received the KingRex uArt Y USB cable from KingRex's US distributor, Moon Audio.

 

A few pics of the uArt I received:

 

 

As you mentioned, the uArt is a Wireworld cable supplied to KingRex. KingRex then modifies it. I understand that the modification process is even more labor intensive than I originally thought. It takes a KingRex technician an entire day to make just one uArt cable. Of course, the high labor cost results in a USB cable at just a little bit higher price point as compared to your average USB cable ($599 U.S.).

 

As a side note, the uArt is Srajan Ebaen's (6moons) reference USB:

 

6moons audio reviews: USB cables from Entreq, Ocellia & Vue Cables

 

and he prefers the uArt to the slightly more expensive uCraft:

 

6moons audio reviews: KingRex uCraft Y

 

 

I believe the uArt is also Christiaan Punter's reference USB at hi-fi advice.com:

 

hifi-advice.com - computeraudio - KingRex UArt Unanimous USB Y-cable review

 

 

I am very impressed with the build quality of the uArt, which exceeds the build quality of my Audioquest Coffee by a good margin.

 

As noted above though, I hit a snag. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread, I am using an older MacBook Pro (2007). I also run Audirvana+ in Direct and Integer Modes. Due to a bus power issue with older MBP's, in order to run in Integer Mode, I have to use a powered USB hub. If I run in IntegerMode without a powered USB hub, I get small clicks and pops, very similar to playing dirty vinyl. That is why I purchased the iUSB in the first place (I was using a cheap Belkin powered hub before I bought the iUSB, and it allowed me to run in Integer Mode without the annoying clicks and pops).

 

Well, the problem is that running the twin-headed uArt, the clicks and pops have returned. This is not a flaw with the uArt, it is the fault of my MBP. As such, I removed the uArt and re-inserted my AQ Coffee USB cable as I like Integer Mode in Audirvana. So it looks like I may need to sell the uArt unless I can somehow figure a work around, or, not run in Integer Mode.

 

I know people are interested in finding out if the iUSB has better performance running its optional separate power and data outputs, as compared to just using the standard single strand USB cable output.

 

If people are interested in my thoughts comparing the iUSB with the uArt against my Coffee, I am happy to do a comparison (I will not run in Integer Mode). I am not sure if this will be useful or not because if some sonic differences exist, it may well be due to the Coffee vs. uArt, rather than a pure comparison of the iUSB's option of running separate power and data outputs from the iUSB to the DAC.

 

Having said that, if people are interested, let me know. It will take me a week or two to run the comparison though, as I had to send my speaker cables back to the manufacturer to get re-terminated due to the addition of a new amp in my system.

[tubesound]

As noted above though, I hit a snag. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread, I am using an older MacBook Pro (2007). I also run Audirvana+ in Direct and Integer Modes. Due to a bus power issue with older MBP's, in order to run in Integer Mode, I have to use a powered USB hub. If I run in IntegerMode without a powered USB hub, I get small clicks and pops, very similar to playing dirty vinyl. That is why I purchased the iUSB in the first place (I was using a cheap Belkin powered hub before I bought the iUSB, and it allowed me to run in Integer Mode without the annoying clicks and pops).

 

Well, the problem is that running the twin-headed uArt, the clicks and pops have returned. This is not a flaw with the uArt, it is the fault of my MBP.

 

This sounds weird to me since iUSB should have sufficient power to feed your DAC. Have you tried MacBook Pro > uArt > iUSB > AQ Coffee and then compared to without iUSB?