Best DAC ever heard

[beetlemania]

I was just given a tip about a music player called Clementine. The musical improvement over numerous other players I have on hand, is nothing short of astounding. I've only heard the Mac version but they also make it for PC. Not certain if the PC version has the same sonic attributes, but worth a try. Best of all, it's free. Not sure why, but Clementine "easily" tops the others for musical quality. The price leaders like Amarra and Pure Music should be ashamed. Is it perfect? Not entirely but much further down the road sonically than the others I purchased.

 

and they have versions for all major OSs including W7. I've compared several music players and found very little difference among them (hence my earlier comments). I did slightly prefer Jplay to the others but not enough to pony up the money. I'll try Clementine on your recc.

 

Guess I shouldn't close the door on PS upgrades, either.

[JohnMH]

"Oppo 95 CDP[/b] (Music fed wirelessly from a computer or just a USB pocket Hard Drive with external power supply, makes this thing way better than you could imagine. Ashamed Oppo did not provide a better user interface or S/PDIF input. It does not sound as good when playing a CD of the same file."

 

Interesting. I have one of these, but haven't tried playing files via USB or wireless. Good to know it gets some respect here at CA. It has certainly received rave reviews elsewhere, except for the music file selection interface and options, which probably isn't going to be a great concern for me for a while.

 

If I hook this thing to my wired home network can I access files on any networked computer? Guess I'll have to resort to reading the manual. I didn't realize the computer audio possibilities of this machine. Very cool to find new possibilities to explore without spending more money.

 

The 95 sounds great playing discs of all kinds over my modest system consisting of a Sony ES receiver used as stereo preamp, an old Hafler DH200 power amp that I assembled from kit back in the day, and original large Advent loudspeakers (new surrounds on the woofers).

 

Cheers

[The Computer Audiophile]

Let me hasten to add that I was just given a tip about a music player called Clementine. The musical improvement over numerous other players I have on hand, is nothing short of astounding. I've only heard the Mac version but they also make it for PC. Not certain if the PC version has the same sonic attributes, but worth a try. Best of all, it's free. Not sure why, but Clementine "easily" tops the others for musical quality. The price leaders like Amarra and Pure Music should be ashamed. Is it perfect? Not entirely but much further down the road sonically than the others I purchased.

 

Clementine doesn't support auto sample rate changes. I went from a 16/44.1 track to a 24/96 track and Audio Midi stayed at 44.1 plus the sound was garbled. Have you tried different sample rates?

[hytechrednek]

Clementine doesn't support auto sample rate changes. I went from a 16/44.1 track to a 24/96 track and Audio Midi stayed at 44.1 plus the sound was garbled. Have you tried different sample rates?

 

Yes I have tried higher sample rate files and like your experience, it stayed at 44.1 when using Clementine. However I did not notice a degradation in sound quality.

[hytechrednek]

"Oppo 95 CDP[/b] (Music fed wirelessly from a computer or just a USB pocket Hard Drive with external power supply, makes this thing way better than you could imagine. Ashamed Oppo did not provide a better user interface or S/PDIF input. It does not sound as good when playing a CD of the same file."

 

Interesting. I have one of these, but haven't tried playing files via USB or wireless. Good to know it gets some respect here at CA. It has certainly received rave reviews elsewhere, except for the music file selection interface and options, which probably isn't going to be a great concern for me for a while.

 

If I hook this thing to my wired home network can I access files on any networked computer? Guess I'll have to resort to reading the manual. I didn't realize the computer audio possibilities of this machine. Very cool to find new possibilities to explore without spending more money.

 

The 95 sounds great playing discs of all kinds over my modest system consisting of a Sony ES receiver used as stereo preamp, an old Hafler DH200 power amp that I assembled from kit back in the day, and original large Advent loudspeakers (new surrounds on the woofers).

 

Cheers

 

If I remember correctly, you have to jump through hoops to get the Oppo to use computer files. It is not streaming them from the computer. The Oppo is accessing the files using a program that must be installed on the Macintosh called "Playback" ($29 or 10 day free trial). It's somewhat like the program "AirFoil."

 

The Oppo needs access to your wireless router first (password), then you grant access to all your music folders, through the program "Playback." These files will then appear on a the Oppo HDMI display in a "DOS Like" menu. You then select the file you want to play using the Oppo's remote. The only good news is there's no apparent loss in audio quality and no wires (USB Cable) between the computer and HiFi. This is not nearly as easy as placing the files on a thumb or hard drive and plug into a USB Port on the Oppo, but it does sound a notch better IMO. Of course the Oppo has no search or sort capability like the computer does.

 

Ashamed you can't select and play music directly from the computer, but you have to navigate the Oppo for selection and play. An Oppo Rep indicated to me there are plans to add the capability to use a wireless device like an iPad, iPhone, iMac, iWhatever, to navigate files and play them, but that's apparently in the future. It could be firmware for the 95 or a successor product. No promises!

[accwai]

If I remember correctly, you have to jump through hoops to get the Oppo to use computer files. It is not streaming them from the computer. The Oppo is accessing the files using a program that must be installed on the Macintosh called "Playback" ($29 or 10 day free trial). It's somewhat like the program "AirFoil."

 

The Oppo 95 is a DNLA media player, so any DLNA server can supply content to it.

 

The Oppo needs access to your wireless router first (password), then you grant access to all your music folders, through the program "Playback." These files will then appear on a the Oppo HDMI display in a "DOS Like" menu.

 

What the Oppo sees depends a lot on capabilities of the DLNA server and how you configure it. It is possible to assemble playlists on the server on the fly and let the Oppo treat them as if they are albums. If you do this instead of having to use the Oppo to navigate through your whole library, things become much more manageable.

 

To me, the real problem is that for anything besides CDs, the Oppo relies completely on the attached display for navigation. If the display is a plasma TV, keeping it on to play music is very bad for the TV. But the Oppo also has HDMI handshake problem when the TV is power cycled. The solution is either something like the Gefen HMDI detective or manually unplug and replug the TV HDMI cable everything the TV is power cycled. Very messy no matter what you do. Also, playing from track to track is not gapless on the Oppo. Not very nice for classical music.

 

An Oppo Rep indicated to me there are plans to add the capability to use a wireless device like an iPad, iPhone, iMac, iWhatever, to navigate files and play them, but that's apparently in the future. It could be firmware for the 95 or a successor product. No promises!

 

I doubt very much it will appear on the 95 as firmware. They've been talking about DLNA renderer capability since the 95 was first introduced. It never materialized. And now that the 95 is getting to be a year or so old, they probably want to maximize the difference between the it and its successor...

 

In any case, I think the DAC inside the Oppo 95 is a little dry and uptight. Seems to me that it's truncating the dynamic and harmonic decay details on the notes. This thins out the sound field and make it less confusing. You have the impression that you're getting lots detail, but in reality you're not. So putting it in the top DAC category is probably stretching things a little. But for the price, it's rather difficult to beat. Plus it's an awesome blu-ray player. I'm happy with mine.

 

Andy

[pawel8]

I was the second owner of the of the QB-9 and the previous owner put a great deal of time on it. I owned it for several months before this comparison and noticed no changes in sound, so I feel reasonably certain there was no break in still ongoing.

 

I was truly shocked that a computer Power supply could make any difference whatsoever in the analogue domain. I means 1's and 0's are just voltage state changes. Yet the Mojo Power supply made a huge difference on the Mac Mini. The friend who had this setup told me in emails about the improvement. I thought he was imagining things until I got to stop by and it bowled me over. I felt ashamed that I'd dismissed his claims in such a cavalier manner.

 

Let me hasten to add that I was just given a tip about a music player called Clementine. The musical improvement over numerous other players I have on hand, is nothing short of astounding. I've only heard the Mac version but they also make it for PC. Not certain if the PC version has the same sonic attributes, but worth a try. Best of all, it's free. Not sure why, but Clementine "easily" tops the others for musical quality. The price leaders like Amarra and Pure Music should be ashamed. Is it perfect? Not entirely but much further down the road sonically than the others I purchased.

Hi

I have tried Clementine with my Berkeley Alpha series 2 and found it not listenable when comparing to both Pure Music and Amarra.

The only good thing about it is that it is free.

Sound was very thin and no soundstage.

IMHO.

[pawel8]

Chris,

I gave up waiting for newest review which was to inform us about the best sound from a computer.

I sold my Alpha Dac II and Alpha USB and went back to DCS Debussy brand new 2days old.

Clinical sound or not,I like it.

Audio Research further postponed Reference Dac release(shame).

Pure music works with integer and I can play DSDs without conversion.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi pawel8 - The Debussy is a wonderful DAC. I don't think it's clinical sounding at all. I'm sure you'll enjoy it for a long time.

[mytek]

Hi Chris

 

Let me repost my own post from a professional discussion mastering forum from sometimes ago, maybe it'll shed some light on what clocks can or cannot do:

 

 

"Designers of ADC and DACs are in business of providing most accurate digital conversion as oppose to accurate time measurement over long term.

 

If one is concerned with their song length that has to be, let's say, exactly 3 mins 00 sec 00 ns long with 0.001%, then they should consider atomic clock. Everybody else concerned with sound quality should rather be looking at digital converters with built in low jitter oscillators. PPM spec means nothing in terms of clock usefulness for audio conversion.

 

Oven cooked crystal or atomic oscillators make a great marketing pitch but they are intended for scientific time measurement and have no impact audio quality. It's the short term periodic (phase) jitter that matters most and it's not atomic source or thermal stability that assures this, but a crystal designed specifically for low phase jitter. These designs are different, they are low noise, not low ppm.

 

In our (Mytek) designs) we have used oscillators with down to 1ps jitter specs. Such specs can only be achieved by placing the xco very close (few mms) to converter chipset and by using special buffering and pcb layout techniques, dedicated power supplies etc. 1psec crystal is expensive, can cost $50 as compared to a $2 for 50psec but this is the only approach that makes a difference IMO. A digital synthesis system can also be designed to have low periodic jitter.

 

There is no way that the most stable external clock box can provide psec jitter figures when feeding another box through dubious few ft long wordclock connection and associated buffer circuitry , grounds and power supplies on both ends.

 

It's unfortunate the myths about clocks have perpetuated so deeply despite easily demonstrable evidence (for example see: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/articles/masterclocks.htm)

 

When someone tells me their system sounds "better" with external clock I challenge them to run a sinewave distortion FFT. In most cases this test shows more distortion on external clock (as it should be expected when high end ADC/DACs are involved).

 

Yet these distortion are often perceived as audible "improvement".

 

When somebody tells me "I connected the "Galactic" External Clock Machine and all started to sound great, vocal came to front etc etc.", I know they are talking about increased midrange grunge coloration caused by more jitter. I'd rather use a nice sounding analog gear to color the sound, doing the same with clock is possible but probably misguided.

 

Having said that there is some badly designed equipment out there that can benefit from external clock but this should be an exception, not the rule, they are just badly designed. External clock may help a Digi box where a 50Mhz clock is sent over a foot of ribbon, but won't help our Mytek nor Prism nor Lavry.

 

FWIW Mytek makes a good standalone clock oscillator. We recommend using this clock as a central source to sync a large system, not as an external silver bullet box that would "improve" the sound through some psychoacoustic magic that cannot be scientifically explained."

 

Michal at Mytek Digital, New York

[pawel8]

Chris

Thank you for a good support on my decision.

I do not know what is wrong with me or my system(Mac mini,Ayre amplifier and Dynaudio speakers with Audioquest and Kimber Cables)

but the combination of Alpha DAC series 2 with an Alpha USB interface did not impress me.

This was primary reason why I waited for your super DAC review.

[joeinid]

Chris,

I gave up waiting for newest review which was to inform us about the best sound from a computer.

I sold my Alpha Dac II and Alpha USB and went back to DCS Debussy brand new 2days old.

Clinical sound or not,I like it.

Audio Research further postponed Reference Dac release(shame).

Pure music works with integer and I can play DSDs without conversion.

 

Chris

Thank you for a good support on my decision.

I do not know what is wrong with me or my system(Mac mini,Ayre amplifier and Dynaudio speakers with Audioquest and Kimber Cables)

but the combination of Alpha DAC series 2 with an Alpha USB interface did not impress me.

This was primary reason why I waited for your super DAC review.

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Any update on when a new review may come out? I am waiting with great anticipation as well.

 

Thanks!

 

Joe

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Chris,

 

Any update on when a new review may come out? I am waiting with great anticipation as well.

 

Thanks!

 

Joe

 

 

I'm looking at June 12 for publication of that review.

[joeinid]

I'm looking at June 12 for publication of that review.

 

Awesome ! I appreciate all the great info on this site. Thanks for the update and all the hard work. You do an amazing job here.

 

Joe

[pianoguy]

Best DAC every heard? - easy!! Stahltek Vekian (now upgraded to Opus), especially when using their new Audiophile Bridge for Computer (Stahltek A.B.C.)

[wisnon]

Best is up to one's personal taste, but here is one of the "best" DAC reviews:

 

My original Wigwam review of LamizatOr DAC 4 repost ;-) | GPoint-Audio

 

 

I love the paart where he talks about tonal fidelity....and this guy works as a Jazz show reviewer in Europe!

[hvbias]

MSB DAC IV is so far the best digital I have heard (I think it was a Platinum level). I hope to own one of their DACs someday!

 

For now I am using an Assemblage DAC 3.1. I'm a big fan of R2R ladder DACs

[The Computer Audiophile]

Ladder DACs really can be special. Wish more were available.

[bibo01]

MSB DAC IV is so far the best digital I have heard (I think it was a Platinum level). I hope to own one of their DACs someday!

 

For now I am using an Assemblage DAC 3.1. I'm a big fan of R2R ladder DACs

 

It is out of my league and I will never spend that sort of money.

However, the Galaxy clock brings the Platinum on an even better level.

[catastrofe]

MSB DAC IV is so far the best digital I have heard (I think it was a Platinum level). I hope to own one of their DACs someday!

 

For now I am using an Assemblage DAC 3.1. I'm a big fan of R2R ladder DACs

 

I have the MSB Signature DAC IV. It's the best DAC I've ever heard, and I've heard Esoteric D-05, Weiss DAC202, Meitner MA-1, PS Audio PWD, and Playback Designs MPS-5 in my system at various times. I'm also a fan of Ladder DACs, and MSB certainly knows how to implement that design.

[Bromo33333]

Berkeley Alpha DAC 2 + USB to SPDIF computer from the same - insane goodness (Appx $7k!) - wish I had the bank for it.

 

I also heard the digital input into an Esoteric D-05. Really really good as well, though I tend to like the Alpha DAC a little better.

 

........

[babybear]

I am using the MSB Diamond DAC IV with optional clock module and the Diamond outboard power supply. This just recently replaced an Esoteric P03/D03 with G0s clock digital front end in my system. I also compared the MSB Diamond DAC IV as configured above with the top of the line EMM XDS1. The MSB is significantly better to me in my system than either the EMM or the Esoteric. Most of the digital that I have listened to which includes the Esoteric, the EMM and the DCS Scarlatti in a friends system are all very good in their own right but they all have a sonic signature which to me are variations on a theme. The MSB Diamond DAC IV, at least to me in my system, is harmonically richer with a more organic and liquid sound while maintaining the extreme resolution that the others in this class of DAC have. I have also auditioned the CH Precision transport and DAC in my system. This is also a really, really good digital front end and perhaps the second best that I have heard after the MSB Diamond Dac IV.

[hvbias]

For you guys using the MSB, are you using the USB input or something else?

[catastrofe]

For you guys using the MSB, are you using the USB input or something else?

 

I'm feeding USB from the SoTM card in my Sonore. I typically upsample to either 352.8 or 384 (depending on the base sample rate) in the Sonore.....sublime.

[Phil C]

Anybody here using the Berkeley Alpha USB converter with the Benchmark DAC1 or Benchmark DAC1 HDR? Well I am and would like to hear your experiences with this combo. Also, I am having a small problem I need to bounce off fellow users.

 

Thanks,

 

Phil C