PYP Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 8 hours ago, firedog said: If it's labelled Almond/Soy/Oat etc. it's clear what it is. Unless you are either really dumb or intentionally ignorant. I don't think "sugar substitute" is telling people it's sugar. Same thing with plant sourced meat. Label it clearly and correctly, and no reason meat can't be used in the name. Obviously the meat producers don't want that. That doesn't impress me. agreed. My post was an attempt at humor, albeit of the local (that is, U.S.) kind. There were a few politicians here, probably ones whose constituents are dairy farmers, who floated the idea that simply putting a label on the package that included the word "milk" was an affront to the traditional U.S. values of mom, apple pie and milk. Hey, who expects people to read the label before they purchase something? The politicians probably stopped this particular approach when a lactose-intolerant dairy farmer informed them that he could purchase organic hemp milk at his local stop-n-shop in town, said town with a population of less than 200 people. Grimm Audio MU2 > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3 Cables: Kubala-Sosna Power management: Shunyata Room: Vicoustics Ethernet: Network Acoustics Muon Pro “Nature is pleased with simplicity.” Isaac Newton "As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed." Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man Link to comment
Mike Rubin Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 2 hours ago, firedog said: Could have encountered the information in the wrong order, but AFAIR, MOFI offered the refund first. I don't know how much real largesse there is here. It's the right thing to do, but MOFI probably knows that few people will go to the trouble of shipping back the LP: A) it's a hassle; B) Most of the customers like the records anyway. Only the all analog ideologues or those who are extremely pissed off on principle will go to the trouble and give up what is, after all, a nice LP. If you have to return the LP to get a refund, something I did not realize, then there would need to be a class action valuation that, presumably, reflects the difference in value between what you expected and what you got. I have no idea how that would be calculated, especially since the product, pre-disclosure, brought a premium in the aftermarket, but economists can model that. Whether it is worth paying an economist to do that calculus and to defend it in a deposition, however, seems pretty doubtful if the entire production run is a relative handful of units. Jud 1 Living room: Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7 > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 15 hours ago, Mike Rubin said: (Wanna have fun? Try to explain what a DAC is to someone who isn’t a reasonably serious audiophile.) Mike it’s easy to explain what a DAC is. I pull my iPhone of my pocket, plug in the Apple headphone dongle. And say this converts a digital signal from YouTube to analog so you can hear it and amplifies it. Then I plug in headphones or earbuds and say here listen. People generally say can I play some of my music? I say Yes go ahead. I’m enjoying the rants carry on. Link to comment
Popular Post Allan F Posted August 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2022 15 hours ago, Mike Rubin said: (Wanna have fun? Try to explain what a DAC is to someone who isn’t a reasonably serious audiophile.) It's easier than trying to describe a spiral staircase without using your hands. :~) Rt66indierock and Jud 1 1 "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 20 hours ago, firedog said: Really? Don't think so. How many millions visit there every year? NYC is great - as long as you have money. In a different way sitting on a patio in Downtown Scottsdale sipping drinks watching the tourist go by is like going to the zoo. I like zoos of all kinds. To get back to something close to the topic, DEPOSE STEVE GUTTENBERG! Mike Rubin 1 Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Report on Pitchfork https://pitchfork.com/news/mofi-faces-fraud-lawsuit-for-selling-vinyl-reissues-as-purely-analog-while-using-digital-masters/ Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Report on Billboard https://www.billboard.com/pro/mofi-lawsuit-class-action-analog-vinyl/ Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 17 hours ago, Allan F said: It's easier than trying to describe a spiral staircase without using your hands. :~) Actually both DAC and stairs do similar thing - turn steps (digital in case of DAC) into analogue, linear movement vector.. As for spiral stairs, one could probably say, they are more or less the equivalent of what MQA does to the original audio signal.. ;-) Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 On 8/20/2022 at 6:55 PM, Iving said: New case "Stiles": https://www.law.com/radar/ Vinyl record seller Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab was hit with a consumer class action Thursday in Illinois Northern District Court. The case, brought by Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman & Herz and Bursor & Fisher, contends that Mobile albums on vinyl which are marketed as 'purely analog,' or made from original master recordings, have actually been produced from digital files since 2011. Counsel have not yet appeared for the defendant. The case is 1:22-cv-04405, Stiles v. Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, Inc. Credit to davidavdavid on WBF for expansion of detail on Stiles: View pdf here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zV8YxTGtieqkwpKBJQxxe0e4z2ZoBbL/view It is the deception that matters. The $ quantity or style of damages do not. MoFi losing this (or related) lawsuit is not about $ recompense. It's about constraint of the likelihood of deception in the future. The whole pdf document is an interesting read. Mike Rubin 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 This is like spending millions of dollars of one's own money on a political campaign to win a job that pays a hundred thousand. There is more at play than meets the eye. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Just now, The Computer Audiophile said: This is like spending millions of dollars of one's own money on a political campaign to win a job that pays a hundred thousand. There is more at play than meets the eye. Aha - a price and a fudge on right and wrong ... Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Iving said: Aha - a price and a fudge on right and wrong ... I don't understand. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 This statement doesn't make sense to me. The tape is not known as the original master recording. The tape is known as the master tape. Please correct me if I'm wrong. "The production of a vinyl record begins with a studio recording. Specifically, a musician will record an album at a studio, and the songs on the album will be preserved and finalized on an analog tape. This tape is known as the “original master recording.”" Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I don't understand. That's OK Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: This statement doesn't make sense to me. The tape is not known as the original master recording. The tape is known as the master tape. Please correct me if I'm wrong. "The production of a vinyl record begins with a studio recording. Specifically, a musician will record an album at a studio, and the songs on the album will be preserved and finalized on an analog tape. This tape is known as the “original master recording.”" Looks like an invitation to get lost in the weeds. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Iving said: That's OK I guess it's OK if you're trying to score points with a wider audience, but is a bit ridiculous if you're trying to communicate with me and I don't understand. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Iving said: Looks like an invitation to get lost in the weeds. I've never heard anyone refer to a master tape as an original master recording, and I assumed OMR was used because it's the original recording not matter what medium it's on. It wasn't remixed or re-recorded. A recording isn't a. tape. A recording is the capture of a performance. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I guess it's OK if you're trying to score points with a wider audience, but is a bit ridiculous if you're trying to communicate with me and I don't understand. That's insulting to me. You're an intelligent man. I think you do/can understand perfectly well the difference between right and wrong per se and expediency. Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Just now, The Computer Audiophile said: I've never heard anyone refer to a master tape as an original master recording Anyway has nothing to do with the heart of the matter. Getting lost in the weeds. See you later. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Iving said: That's insulting to me. You're an intelligent man. I think you do/can understand perfectly well the difference between right and wrong per se and expediency. I don't understand what "a price and a fudge on right and wrong" means. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Iving said: Anyway has nothing to do with the heart of the matter. Getting lost in the weeds. See you later. One man's weeds, is another man's details. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
firedog Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 50 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: This is like spending millions of dollars of one's own money on a political campaign to win a job that pays a hundred thousand. There is more at play than meets the eye. Quite possibly. Or someone feels aggrieved and has money they don't know what to do with. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post charlesphoto Posted August 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2022 Oh man, I know 'audiophiles' can be ridiculous, but this takes the cake. See the tips of my forefinger and thumb rubbing together? That's the world's tiniest violin playing at the MoFi cheated me pity party. Perhaps if MoFi just gives them all a $400 record weight, that would solve the now 'broken' sound of their $150 'Hotel California' albums. Or they could all just assuage themselves with a new $10k Japanese cartridge (the only way to rid oneself of that pesky MoFi digitalitis that has infected their keepsake CSNY records). But really, at the end of the day, the only thing that will 'save' their now terrible sounding $100k analog rigs is sending money to Paul Hynes, lol. Iving, The Computer Audiophile and PeterG 3 SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
Jud Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 43 minutes ago, Iving said: That's insulting to me. You're an intelligent man. I think you do/can understand perfectly well the difference between right and wrong per se and expediency. He wasn't being insulting; what you wrote may not have been completely clear. Am I correct that you were saying he was trying to put a price on and/or "fudging" the difference between right and wrong behavior? The Computer Audiophile 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Iving Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jud said: He wasn't being insulting; what you wrote may not have been completely clear. Am I correct that you were saying he was trying to put a price on and/or "fudging" the difference between right and wrong behavior? Oh come on Jud. I couldn't have been clearer: 1 hour ago, Iving said: It is the deception that matters. The $ quantity or style of damages do not. Chris immediately says: 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: This is like spending millions of dollars of one's own money on a political campaign to win a job that pays a hundred thousand. There is more at play than meets the eye. To spell it out again then ... Deception is a raw matter of right and wrong. It is what I most object to as represented in all my contributions to this thread. Those who care about the MoFi scandal care most about being deceived. Exactly as represented by Stiles and his lawyers in the pdf posted. Chris's reply suggests something about the folly of paying $10 to get back $1 or something. That is expediency. If you give up on correcting a moral wrong because of the $ price of doing so it is a fudge. Honestly - I do NOT believe it was necessary to explain this in this way. Out of courtesy nevertheless - here you are. Sideshow: The master tape thing. Whatever. If you want to argue that a DSD copy of the analogue master tape qualifies as basis for "Original Master Recording" retail vinyl product - and that MoFi meant "OMR" to encompass that possibility - then you are contradicting the whole body of evidence relating to whether MoFi were honest/dishonest. The pdf posted refers. As does much else. Direct comms. with customers saying "all analog". etc etc. If you want to argue "no deception" fine. But even MoFi's apologies don't corroborate that. If that's not what's intended well then the public's understanding of the distinction is [not] here and it is all irrelevant to me as weeds: Link to comment
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