Tuttle et al v Audiophile Music Direct

[PYP]

8 hours ago, firedog said:

 If it's labelled Almond/Soy/Oat etc. it's clear what it is. Unless you are either really dumb or intentionally ignorant.

 

I don't think "sugar substitute" is telling people it's sugar.

 

Same thing with plant sourced meat. Label it clearly and correctly, and no reason meat can't be used in the name. Obviously the meat producers don't want that. That doesn't impress me. 

 

agreed.  My post was an attempt at humor, albeit of the local (that is, U.S.) kind.  There were a few politicians here, probably ones whose constituents are dairy farmers, who floated the idea that simply putting a label on the package that included the word "milk" was an affront to the traditional U.S. values of mom, apple pie and milk.   Hey, who expects people to read the label before they purchase something?  

 

The politicians probably stopped this particular approach when a lactose-intolerant dairy farmer informed them that he could purchase organic hemp milk at his local stop-n-shop in town, said town with a population of less than 200 people.  

[Mike Rubin]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

Could have encountered the information in the wrong order, but AFAIR, MOFI offered the refund first.

 

I don't know how much real largesse there is here. It's the right thing to do, but MOFI probably knows that few people will go to the trouble of shipping back the LP:

A) it's a hassle;

B) Most of the customers like the records anyway. Only the all analog ideologues or those who are extremely pissed off on principle will go to the trouble and give up what is, after all, a nice LP.

If you have to return the LP to get a refund, something I did not realize, then there would need to be a class action valuation that, presumably, reflects the difference in value between what you expected and what you got. I have no idea how that would be calculated, especially since the product, pre-disclosure, brought a premium in the aftermarket, but economists can model that. Whether it is worth paying an economist to do that calculus and to defend it in a deposition, however, seems pretty doubtful if the entire production run is a relative handful of units.  

[Rt66indierock]

15 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

 (Wanna have fun?  Try to explain what a DAC is to someone who isn’t a reasonably serious audiophile.)

 

 

Mike it’s easy to explain what a DAC is. I pull my iPhone of my pocket, plug in the Apple headphone dongle. And say this converts a digital signal from YouTube to analog so you can hear it and amplifies it. Then I plug in headphones or earbuds and say here listen. People generally say can I play some of my music? I say Yes go ahead.

 

I’m enjoying the rants carry on.

[Allan F]

15 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

(Wanna have fun?  Try to explain what a DAC is to someone who isn’t a reasonably serious audiophile.)

 

It's easier than trying to describe a spiral staircase without using your hands. :~)

[Rt66indierock]

20 hours ago, firedog said:

Really? Don't think so. 

How many millions visit there every year?

NYC is great - as long as you have money.

 

In a different way sitting on a patio in Downtown Scottsdale sipping drinks watching the tourist go by is like going to the zoo.   I like zoos of all kinds.

To get back to something close to the topic, DEPOSE STEVE GUTTENBERG!

[Iving]

Report on Pitchfork

 

https://pitchfork.com/news/mofi-faces-fraud-lawsuit-for-selling-vinyl-reissues-as-purely-analog-while-using-digital-masters/

[Iving]

Report on Billboard

 

https://www.billboard.com/pro/mofi-lawsuit-class-action-analog-vinyl/

[sphinxsix]

17 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

It's easier than trying to describe a spiral staircase without using your hands. :~)

Actually both DAC and stairs do similar thing - turn steps (digital in case of DAC) into analogue, linear movement vector..

As for spiral stairs, one could probably say, they are more or less the equivalent of what MQA does to the original audio signal.. ;-)

 

[Iving]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:55 PM, Iving said:

New case "Stiles": https://www.law.com/radar/

 

Vinyl record seller Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab was hit with a consumer class action Thursday in Illinois Northern District Court. The case, brought by Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman & Herz and Bursor & Fisher, contends that Mobile albums on vinyl which are marketed as 'purely analog,' or made from original master recordings, have actually been produced from digital files since 2011. Counsel have not yet appeared for the defendant. The case is 1:22-cv-04405, Stiles v. Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, Inc.

 

Credit to davidavdavid on WBF for expansion of detail on Stiles:

 

 

View pdf here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-zV8YxTGtieqkwpKBJQxxe0e4z2ZoBbL/view

 

 

It is the deception that matters. The $ quantity or style of damages do not. MoFi losing this (or related) lawsuit is not about $ recompense. It's about constraint of the likelihood of deception in the future.

 

The whole pdf document is an interesting read.

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is like spending millions of dollars of one's own money on a political campaign to win a job that pays a hundred thousand. There is more at play than meets the eye. 

[Iving]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is like spending millions of dollars of one's own money on a political campaign to win a job that pays a hundred thousand. There is more at play than meets the eye. 

 

Aha - a price and a fudge on right and wrong ...

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

Aha - a price and a fudge on right and wrong ...

I don't understand. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

This statement doesn't make sense to me. The tape is not known as the original master recording. The tape is known as the master tape. Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

"The production of a vinyl record begins with a studio recording. Specifically, a
musician will record an album at a studio, and the songs on the album will be preserved and
finalized on an analog tape. This tape is known as the “original master recording.”"

[Iving]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I don't understand. 

 

That's OK

[Iving]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This statement doesn't make sense to me. The tape is not known as the original master recording. The tape is known as the master tape. Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

"The production of a vinyl record begins with a studio recording. Specifically, a
musician will record an album at a studio, and the songs on the album will be preserved and
finalized on an analog tape. This tape is known as the “original master recording.”"

 

Looks like an invitation to get lost in the weeds.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Iving said:

 

That's OK

I guess it's OK if you're trying to score points with a wider audience, but is a bit ridiculous if you're trying to communicate with me and I don't understand. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

Looks like an invitation to get lost in the weeds.

I've never heard anyone refer to a master tape as an original master recording, and I assumed OMR was used because it's the original recording not matter what medium it's on. It wasn't remixed or re-recorded. 

 

A recording isn't a. tape. A recording is the capture of a performance. 

[Iving]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I guess it's OK if you're trying to score points with a wider audience, but is a bit ridiculous if you're trying to communicate with me and I don't understand. 

 

That's insulting to me.

 

You're an intelligent man. I think you do/can understand perfectly well the difference between right and wrong per se and expediency.

[Iving]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

I've never heard anyone refer to a master tape as an original master recording

 

Anyway has nothing to do with the heart of the matter. Getting lost in the weeds. See you later.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Iving said:

 

That's insulting to me.

 

You're an intelligent man. I think you do/can understand perfectly well the difference between right and wrong per se and expediency.

I don't understand what "a price and a fudge on right and wrong" means. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Iving said:

 

Anyway has nothing to do with the heart of the matter. Getting lost in the weeds. See you later.

 

One man's weeds, is another man's details. 

 

 

[firedog]

50 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is like spending millions of dollars of one's own money on a political campaign to win a job that pays a hundred thousand. There is more at play than meets the eye. 

Quite possibly. Or someone feels aggrieved and has money they don't know what to do with.

[charlesphoto]

Oh man, I know 'audiophiles' can be ridiculous, but this takes the cake. See the tips of my forefinger and thumb rubbing together? That's the world's tiniest violin playing at the MoFi cheated me pity party. Perhaps if MoFi just gives them all a $400 record weight, that would solve the now 'broken' sound of their $150 'Hotel California' albums. Or they could all just assuage themselves with a new $10k Japanese cartridge (the only way to rid oneself of that pesky MoFi digitalitis that has infected their keepsake CSNY records).  But really, at the end of the day, the only thing that will 'save' their now terrible sounding $100k analog rigs is sending money to Paul Hynes, lol. 

[Jud]

43 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

That's insulting to me.

 

You're an intelligent man. I think you do/can understand perfectly well the difference between right and wrong per se and expediency.

 

He wasn't being insulting; what you wrote may not have been completely clear. Am I correct that you were saying he was trying to put a price on and/or "fudging" the difference between right and wrong behavior?

[Iving]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

He wasn't being insulting; what you wrote may not have been completely clear. Am I correct that you were saying he was trying to put a price on and/or "fudging" the difference between right and wrong behavior?

 

Oh come on Jud.

 

I couldn't have been clearer:

1 hour ago, Iving said:

It is the deception that matters. The $ quantity or style of damages do not.

 

Chris immediately says:

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is like spending millions of dollars of one's own money on a political campaign to win a job that pays a hundred thousand. There is more at play than meets the eye. 

 

To spell it out again then ...

Deception is a raw matter of right and wrong.

It is what I most object to as represented in all my contributions to this thread.

Those who care about the MoFi scandal care most about being deceived.

Exactly as represented by Stiles and his lawyers in the pdf posted.

 

Chris's reply suggests something about the folly of paying $10 to get back $1 or something. That is expediency. If you give up on correcting a moral wrong because of the $ price of doing so it is a fudge.

 

Honestly - I do NOT believe it was necessary to explain this in this way. Out of courtesy nevertheless - here you are.

 

Sideshow: The master tape thing. Whatever. If you want to argue that a DSD copy of the analogue master tape qualifies as basis for "Original Master Recording" retail vinyl product - and that MoFi meant "OMR" to encompass that possibility - then you are contradicting the whole body of evidence relating to whether MoFi were honest/dishonest. The pdf posted refers. As does much else. Direct comms. with customers saying "all analog". etc etc. If you want to argue "no deception" fine. But even MoFi's apologies don't corroborate that. If that's not what's intended well then the public's understanding of the distinction is [not] here and it is all irrelevant to me as weeds: