T+A DAC 200

[lsantista]

thank you. Im sure there were other considerations into play when designing the product such that it is "difficult" to update the fw.

to be fair, the original reason I asked was because I was having trouble getting sound from the optical connection, only to find 10 minutes later I that it was disabled - which I understand is a potentially usefull and rare feature among dacs. 

 

 

[OE333]

On 2/10/2023 at 7:07 PM, Allan F said:

 

Any recent news about when this will be available?

 

The programming tool will be available through the T+A webshop from beginning of March. As I heard, the price will be around €100.

 

If there is a urgent need it can be ordered right now directly from the T+A service dept. [ e-service (at) ta-hifi.com ]

[OE333]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:25 AM, lsantista said:

huh, it didn't have to be like that, or did it? I mean, the physical rj45 for a stable internet connection is there. right?

 

 

 

The DAC200 is a USB / S/P-DIF and HDMI DAC. It does not have an ethernet port.

Without having an ethernet port there is no way for a direct FW update through the internet.

 

The RJ45 sockets are used for communicating with other T+A devices (like MP200, A200 etc.).

 

The possible ways for a FW update of the DAC200 are:

1.) Through a T+A MP200 streamer

2.) From a (Windows) PC through the T+A programming tool.

3.) using a MSP430 programmer from Texas Instruments

 

[OE333]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:10 PM, lsantista said:

thank you. Im sure there were other considerations into play when designing the product such that it is "difficult" to update the fw.

to be fair, the original reason I asked was because I was having trouble getting sound from the optical connection, only to find 10 minutes later I that it was disabled - which I understand is a potentially usefull and rare feature among dacs. 

 

 

 

Disabling unused inputs means getting rid of potential noise sources.

[lsantista]

4 minutes ago, OE333 said:

 

The DAC200 is a USB / S/P-DIF and HDMI DAC. It does not have an ethernet port.

Without having an ethernet port there is no way for a direct FW update through the internet.

 

The RJ45 sockets are used for communicating with other T+A devices (like MP200, A200 etc.).

 

The possible ways for a FW update of the DAC200 are:

1.) Through a T+A MP200 streamer

2.) From a (Windows) PC through the T+A programming tool.

3.) using a MSP430 programmer from Texas Instruments

 

 

Thank you for the explanation! Im not sure I need the update, but it is good to know the alternatives

[agisthos]

23 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

Disabling unused inputs means getting rid of potential noise sources.

 

Yet more proof that T+A know what they are doing. I really want to try out this DAC 200.

 

I used to desolder the optical off the Oppo mainboard because there was no way to disable it, and its always introduced noise into the spdif coaxial ouput. Subtle, to be sure, but it all makes a difference.
 

[Allan F]

On 2/12/2023 at 5:03 PM, linuxprophet said:

As @jonniema suggested, if you don't own an MP200, please find a dealer who does, and take your prized device there for an update.

 

Not necessarily so easy. I bought my T+A DAC 200 from the same out out of province dealer from whom I bought my DAC 8 DSD five years ago when there were no T+A dealers in Vancouver.  I only recently became aware that there is now a local T+A dealer. I contacted him to see if he would do the firmware update for me. He wanted to know when and from whom I bought my unit. Perhaps naively, I provided the information that he requested.  He then informed me that he became a T+A dealer in June of last year, and that he would have done he update if I had purchased my DAC before then. However, since I bought my unit in September, he refused to do the update and told me to have it done by the dealer who sold it to me.

 

I do not intend to do that as 1) I would be without my DAC for almost two weeks, and 2) I would incur the expense of shipping and insuring the unit to and from that dealer. As a result, it would appear that the only other option would be to purchase the E2link>USB adapter from T+A and do the firmware update myself on my PC.

[semente]

9 minutes ago, Allan F said:

I bought my T+A DAC 200 from the same out out of province dealer from whom I bought my DAC 8 DSD five years ago

 

Is the DAC 200 a significant upgrade over the DAC 8?

[Allan F]

2 minutes ago, semente said:

Is the DAC 200 a significant upgrade over the DAC 8?

 

IMO, in my system it is!

[linuxprophet]

Wow! Allan.

That wasn't a very nice brief! He ought to have been magnanimous and won you over.

Perchance you could purchase the cable as you suggest and try the upgrade yourself.

IMHO - I wouldn't buy stuff from that fellow. He obviously lacks business acumen and a spirit to win over a new customer.

 

I wish you the very best friend.

[Miska]

On 2/15/2023 at 4:40 PM, OE333 said:

The programming tool will be available through the T+A webshop from beginning of March. As I heard, the price will be around €100.

 

Is it the same one I already have for DAC8 DSD, or is it something different?

 

[Jud]

7 minutes ago, linuxprophet said:

Wow! Allan.

That wasn't a very nice brief! He ought to have been magnanimous and won you over.

Perchance you could purchase the cable as you suggest and try the upgrade yourself.

IMHO - I wouldn't buy stuff from that fellow. He obviously lacks business acumen and a spirit to win over a new customer.

 

I wish you the very best friend.

 

It's always amazed me how people to whom you would like to give lots of money do everything they can to avoid that.

[Allan F]

15 minutes ago, linuxprophet said:

I wouldn't buy stuff from that fellow.

 

I made it very clear to him that he had eliminated himself from consideration for any future audio purchases. He gratuitously replied that I am welcome to purchase from anyone I choose. I advised him that he was correct, and that my choice would be based on dealers who valued me as a potential future customer.

[OE333]

12 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Is it the same one I already have for DAC8 DSD, or is it something different?

 

 

No, it is different.

The DAC8DSD used the RS232 control interface for FW update, the 200 devices use the E2Link Interface.

[OE333]

To shed a bit more light on the T+A firmware update procedure:

 

All T+A devices have a proprietary control interface (called "E2Link", "HLink" or "R2Link", depending on the series). Some T+A devices like DAC8DSD, DAC200 and HA200 have an additional RS232 interface labelled "CTRL" which is intended for control of the DAC via RS232 commands.

 

In principle both interfaces can be used for a firmware update.

 

The T+A programming adaptor uses the T+A (X)Link interface for the FW update. This is because this option can be used for all T+A devices, not only for those with RS232 interface.

 

Update of DAC8DSD, HA200 and DAC200 is also possible over RS232. In this case only a SubD-9 to RJ12 cable and a COM port on the PC (or USB to RS232 converter) is required. This is the adaptor mentioned in the post by @Miska.

 

If there is a common interest in the RS232 update, I could write a little guide on this.

[linuxprophet]

Wow!

 

This is excellent information, which only an insider can provide.

There are RS232 D-SUB to RJ45 cables available (like the ones used for CISCO Routers). Or D_SUB to USB as stated earlier.

 

I think a step-by-step guide for those who may not be too familiar with the cables or process might be handy.

 

Thank you OE333.

[ericuco]

4 hours ago, linuxprophet said:

There are RS232 D-SUB to RJ45 cables available (like the ones used for CISCO Routers). Or D_SUB to USB as stated earlier.

 

Here is the parts list for the cable I constructed when successfully updating the firmware of my DAC8 DSD. Note this uses the RJ12 (not RJ45) connector that @OE333 mentioned above.

 

There is T+A documentation that describes which pins to use on the DB9 breakout connector.

 

RJ12 Cable

R232 Connector

USB to R232 Adaptor

 

[OE333]

22 hours ago, linuxprophet said:

Wow!

 

This is excellent information, which only an insider can provide.

There are RS232 D-SUB to RJ45 cables available (like the ones used for CISCO Routers). Or D_SUB to USB as stated earlier.

 

I think a step-by-step guide for those who may not be too familiar with the cables or process might be handy.

 

Thank you OE333.

 

Ok, I will write a step-by-step guide on the update process.

Please wait for this guide before trying to do the update --- there are differences between DAC8DSD, HA200 and DAC200.

Especially the HA200 is a bit tricky because its RS232 interface is shared between the CTRL and the E2Link.

 

I will post some more detail here as soon as I find the time to write the guide. Please give me a couple of days.

[Tihon]

@OE333 would you be so kind to tell a little bit about difference between DAC200 and it's more expensive brother SDV 3100 HV?

 

I mean, it's very obvious that SDV 3100 HV has more bells and whistles built in, but I'm interested in DAC for HQPlayer only. Is 3100 really much better than 200 when it comes to converters and/or analog stage? I've noticed different output voltages and higher SNR of DAC200, which is strange. Besides this, the information on the site does little to help understand the advantages of the 3100 series.

 

By the way, SDV 3100 HV has a built-in NAA (sad that there is no such thing for MP200 or MP 2500R). How do you think, is it the best possible solution for HQP, or external high-end USB source might improve on it?

[1125FPS]

I respectfully request your kind and generous help for a friend GH considering DAC 200 for GH's 2nd system primarily for TV (may stream Qobuz via M-Connect.)  DAC 200 price is irrelevant to this conversation.   

 

Most of the below Qs relate to labels on DAC 200's rear panel:

 

What is SYS IN?

 

What is USB SYS?  

 

What is HDMI OUT (ARC?)  

 

What is CTRL?  

 

What is CHARGE?  

 

Is there ethernet connector (appears not)?

 

Is TV HDMI > DAC 200 OK?  Ditto TV optical > DAC 200?  Which performs better?  

 

Describe the method for firmware/software updates.

 

Another friend says DAC 200's DSD decoding is "unique."  If possible, please comment.

 

Thank you in advance for your kind help.  

[ericuco]

59 minutes ago, 1125FPS said:

I respectfully request your kind and generous help for a friend GH considering DAC 200 for GH's 2nd system primarily for TV (may stream Qobuz via M-Connect.)  DAC 200 price is irrelevant to this conversation.   

 

Most of the below Qs relate to labels on DAC 200's rear panel:

 

What is SYS IN?

 

What is USB SYS?  

 

What is HDMI OUT (ARC?)  

 

What is CTRL?  

 

What is CHARGE?  

 

Is there ethernet connector (appears not)?

 

Is TV HDMI > DAC 200 OK?  Ditto TV optical > DAC 200?  Which performs better?  

 

Describe the method for firmware/software updates.

 

Another friend says DAC 200's DSD decoding is "unique."  If possible, please comment.

 

Thank you in advance for your kind help.  

 
 Perhaps you can find most of your answers on pages 44-45 of the Users Manual. 

[1125FPS]

Thank you Eric! Very helpful.

[Allan F]

On 3/3/2023 at 12:45 PM, ericuco said:

 Perhaps you can find most of your answers on pages 44-45 of the Users Manual. 

 

Direct link to T+A DAC 200 User Manual

[e.Latte]

On 3/3/2023 at 2:44 PM, 1125FPS said:
 

As a happy owner of the DAC 200 I can answer some of the questions you asked. I left some unanswered. 
 

Hope this helps.

 

I respectfully request your kind and generous help for a friend GH considering DAC 200 for GH's 2nd system primarily for TV (may stream Qobuz via M-Connect.)  DAC 200 price is irrelevant to this conversation.   

 

Most of the below Qs relate to labels on DAC 200's rear panel:

 

What is SYS IN?

This is used if you have the MP 200. It allows for the MP 200 to communicate with the DAC 200

What is USB SYS?  

I have the MP 200 and in the manual it says to connect the sys in and the usb sys in. It doesn’t explain it further in the manual. I have been using my MP 200 with just the EZ link cable and not the usb.

What is HDMI OUT (ARC?)  

I believe ARC stands for áudio return channel. 

What is CTRL?  

 

What is CHARGE?  
I’m pretty sure this is to charge remotes or other devices 

 

Is there ethernet connector (appears not)?

No ethernet for streaming.

 

Is TV HDMI > DAC 200 OK?  Ditto TV optical > DAC 200?  Which performs better?  

 

Describe the method for firmware/software updates.

 

Another friend says DAC 200's DSD decoding is "unique."  If possible, please comment.

 

Thank you in advance for your kind help.  

[OE333]

9 hours ago, e.Latte said:

On 3/3/2023 at 8:44 PM, 1125FPS said:

As a happy owner of the DAC 200 I can answer some of the questions you asked. I left some unanswered. 
 

Hope this helps.

 

I respectfully request your kind and generous help for a friend GH considering DAC 200 for GH's 2nd system primarily for TV (may stream Qobuz via M-Connect.)  DAC 200 price is irrelevant to this conversation.   

 

Most of the below Qs relate to labels on DAC 200's rear panel:

 

What is SYS IN?

This is used if you have the MP 200. It allows for the MP 200 to communicate with the DAC 200

What is USB SYS?  

I have the MP 200 and in the manual it says to connect the sys in and the usb sys in. It doesn’t explain it further in the manual. I have been using my MP 200 with just the EZ link cable and not the usb.

What is HDMI OUT (ARC?)  

I believe ARC stands for áudio return channel. 

What is CTRL?  

 

What is CHARGE?  
I’m pretty sure this is to charge remotes or other devices 

 

Is there ethernet connector (appears not)?

No ethernet for streaming.

 

Is TV HDMI > DAC 200 OK?  Ditto TV optical > DAC 200?  Which performs better?  

 

Describe the method for firmware/software updates.

 

Another friend says DAC 200's DSD decoding is "unique."  If possible, please comment.

 

Thank you in advance for your kind help.  

 

 

Most questions were answered nicely and correctly by @e.Latte - thanks !

 

Here are missing answers:

SYS In is a combined digital audio and control interface for the connection of MP200 to DAC200. Audio data is transmitted from the MP200 to the DAC. Control signals are sent bi-directionally between both devices - this for example makes it possible to control both devices with just one remote control.

 

USB-SYS : same as SYS but with (future) support for higher sample rates.

 

CTRL: This is a RS232 (with 5V logic level) interface. It can be used to control the DAC from a Computer or home-automation system.

 

CHARGE: correct - this socket is used to charge the IR remote control

 

HDMI vs. optical TV connection:

HDMI-ARC and optical both use the S/P-DIF format for the audio data. So there is no difference in supported audio resolution or sample rates.

The optical connection isolates the TV from the DAC which might be an advantage in some cases (depending on your installation).

The HDMI connections is convenient if you have a SACD or HD audio BluRay player. You can play high definition audio via DAC200 and pass on the video to the TV in case you want to watch a movie. Furthermore you can use the DAC for your TV sound via the HDMI-ARC (Audio Return Channel) connection.

(*) Please note: the HDMI module is an optional extra !

 

Unique DSD DAC

The DAC200 has separate DACs for PCM and DSD. The DSD DAC is not an off-the-shelf integrated DAC chip, it is a "discrete" T+A proprietary DAC. This DAC is specially constructed for the demands of DSD signals and makes no compromises as normally PCM/DSD combi-DACs do. It has an outstanding resolution and jitter performance. 

 

Firmware Updates

Firmware updates will normally not be necessary but It is possible to update the FW through a MP200 (via the "SYS" connection). This is the easiest and most convenient way.

If no MP200 is available the FW can also be updated from a PC with the help of a T+A programming tool. This will normally be done by your T+A dealer. But the programming tool will be available through the T+A webshop in the near future for all users who want to do the update themselves.