T+A DAC 200

[linuxprophet]

On 5/31/2022 at 11:19 PM, Miska said:

I'm now using two very similar devices. HA 200 + Solitaire P for one of headphone systems and DAC 200 for my main loudspeaker system. So I'm very well covered in this respect! 🙂

I got the exact same gear last November. Very proud indeed. I now want to add a couple of M200s for my birthday! 

 

I would appreciate any guidance on how best to tweak HQP for the DAC200, for Ubuntu 22.04 LTS. I have a couple of spare GPUs if they can take some load off the ThreadRipper 5995WX under the hood.

[camott]

I assume that the DAC 200 is truly balanced throughout? And if so, does anyone know if it properly supports the AES48 balanced (cable) standard?

[linuxprophet]

I can test it over the weekend. As at the moment, I can't say for certain.

[Miska]

On 1/15/2023 at 10:16 PM, linuxprophet said:

I would appreciate any guidance on how best to tweak HQP for the DAC200, for Ubuntu 22.04 LTS. I have a couple of spare GPUs if they can take some load off the ThreadRipper 5995WX under the hood.

 

Run it at DSD256 or DSD512, from the ASDM7ECv2 modulator, using filter of your preference (1x=poly-sinc-gauss-long, Nx=poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp is the current default). I have DAC 200 set to Lowpass 60 kHz while the HA 200 is set to Wide.

 

For the Solitaire P headphones, I recommend creating a HQPlayer matrix profile for EQ using the Oratory1990 correction. I have created (attached) EQ file you can just import. Also create an empty one profile for comparison. You can switch the matrix profiles on the fly using for example HQPlayer Client. (the one you leave loaded/visible when you OK the matrix dialog will be the default)

 

TASolitaireP.txt

[linuxprophet]

Vielen Dank Miska.

[OE333]

12 hours ago, camott said:

I assume that the DAC 200 is truly balanced throughout?

 

Yes, it is truly balanced throughout.

 

 

12 hours ago, camott said:

Does anyone know if it properly supports the AES48 balanced (cable) standard?

 

The AES48 standard was paid attention to when designing this DAC. There is a small difference, though: the connection between pin1 and enclosure is not direct but via a 100nF cap. This cap has no negative effect on EMI or shielding.

[camott]

Thanks @OE333. Out of curiosity, is the "Stream Quality" active for USB input? I know it's basically moot for asynchronous USB audio, but would be interesting to see if there are ever (uncorrectable) CRC errors in the stream, or if the source is struggling with smooth delivery (and thus maybe indicative of *potential* overload).

[OE333]

 

17 hours ago, camott said:

Out of curiosity, is the "Stream Quality" active for USB input?

 

Yes, the Signal Quality indication is active also for the USB input.

 

[jrsub]

Congratulations to T+A on the excellent review of the T+A 200 series in the February 2023 Absolute Sound.    The reviewer stated, "Each individual component is an unqualified success - with top flight sound and undeniable musicality".   He said it sounded nearly indistinguishable to a CH integrated that costs more than twice the T+A series 200 stack.  I couldn't find a link to the review so if anyone finds one please post.

[audio.bill]

1 hour ago, jrsub said:

Congratulations to T+A on the excellent review of the T+A 200 series in the February 2023 Absolute Sound.    The reviewer stated, "Each individual component is an unqualified success - with top flight sound and undeniable musicality".   He said it sounded nearly indistinguishable to a CH integrated that costs more than twice the T+A series 200 stack.  I couldn't find a link to the review so if anyone finds one please post.

That review starts on page 86 of TAS Issue 335 which is available here: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/?r3d=tas-issue-335-february 

[jrsub]

Has anybody experimented with vibration/isolation devices on the DAC 200?  I use Isoacoustics Orea footers on my tube preamp with good results, but not sure if it would be beneficial for this DAC.

[OE333]

Of course tube amps are more susceptible to vibration than semiconductor devices but reducing vibration is always a good idea !

You could also experiment with a rubber mat plus a heavy weight on top of the DAC - in addition to your vibration footers....

[lsantista]

Hi, I understand the DAC200 does not support i2s over HDMI, but Im not knowledgeble on the matter. What happens if I try to send signal from my streamer's i2S out to the 200's hdmi in? No sound, no matter what? Depends on cable? Depends on streamer/pin configuration? Plays just fine?

 

 

[OE333]

The (optional) HDMI inputs of the DAC 200 are real HDMI inputs according to the HDMI specification. For a detailed description of the HDMI interface see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

 

The DAC200 can receive high definition PCM and DSD signals (according to the HDMI specs) over its HDMI inputs. Any DVD, HD-Audio or SACD player with a standard HDMI output can be connected to these inputs.

 

The DAC200 also supports HDMI Video pass-through from such players to a (TV)monitor and the ARC (Audio Return Channel) from TVs.

 

But clearly spoken: The DAC200 HDMI inputs are not just mechanical HDMI sockets (mis)used to receive unencrypted raw I2S signals.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, lsantista said:

What happens if I try to send signal from my streamer's i2S out to the 200's hdmi in? No sound, no matter what?

 

No sound, and potentially some broken hardware on either side.

 

[lsantista]

Thank you all, I was just evaluating the sale of my Sonore DDC converter (the ultra digital, USB to I2S or coax)

[camott]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:25 AM, OE333 said:

The AES48 standard was paid attention to when designing this DAC. There is a small difference, though: the connection between pin1 and enclosure is not direct but via a 100nF cap. This cap has no negative effect on EMI or shielding.

 

Hi again,

 

Many thanks for this response. I am still a little confused though. The specs for the DAC 200 state "High level (RCA) 0...2,5 Veff / 22 Ohms, balanced (XLR) 0...5,0 Veff / 22 Ohms".  i.e. as is common, the output is doubled for balanced output.

 

Apparently this is almost always an indication that the XLR is NOT AES48 compliant. Because, and I am paraphrasing an industry veteran here, it suggests that the pin 2 and pin 3 signals are being generated relative to ground, and out of phase with each other. i.e. effectively two single ended outputs and thus doubling output voltage. Whereas, AES48 outputs are generated relative to each other and ground is ignored .... (pin 1 being the ground as you mentioned).

 

Thanks in advance for any clarification!

[OE333]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:46 PM, camott said:

The specs for the DAC 200 state "High level (RCA) 0...2,5 Veff / 22 Ohms, balanced (XLR) 0...5,0 Veff / 22 Ohms".  i.e. as is common, the output is doubled for balanced output.

 

Apparently this is almost always an indication that the XLR is NOT AES48 compliant. Because, and I am paraphrasing an industry veteran here, it suggests that the pin 2 and pin 3 signals are being generated relative to ground, and out of phase with each other. i.e. effectively two single ended outputs and thus doubling output voltage. Whereas, AES48 outputs are generated relative to each other and ground is ignored .... (pin 1 being the ground as you mentioned).

 

The analog signal circuitry of the DAC200 is referenced to the analog signal ground. This conforms to AES48 (see "REF" ground in figure_3 of draft AES48-20XX).

 

The generation of the balanced audio signal is already done in digital domain - not in analog domain. So this balanced signal is not generated relative to any (analog) ground.

 

To ensure a very high immunity against electromagnetic interference and noise, the DAC200 was tested (by an accredited testing laboratory) to comply with the strict requirements of the following standards:

EN55032:2015+A11:2020, class B

EN55035:2017+A11:2020

EN61000-4-2:2009
EN61000-4-4:2012
EN61000-4-3:2006+A1:2008+A2:2010
EN61000-4-5:2014
EN61000-4-6:2014
EN61000-4-11:2004
EN61000-3-3:2013
EN61000-3-2:2014

 

Where AES48 only gives guidelines for good engineering practice but no measurable performance limits, the above standards contain measurable and verifiable specs and limits for noise immunity. As the DAC200 complies with all requirements of the above standards, it can be assumed, that it will perform well in any home and studio environment.

The DAC200 was mainly constructed to comply with the above EMC rules but of course AES48 is known to its developers and was taken into account as far as possible.

[Mist1Fu]

Hello everyone,

I’m a new member, but have been reading and following this topic about the DAC-200 and many other posts in the forums. I own a DAC-200 as well and I enjoy very much the quality in all aspects of this device. I wanted to ask OE333 about a change I have noticed since updating the firmware a day ago; the relay doesn’t click anymore when changing resolution of music files, has this changed since the latest firmwares? When I bought the DAC it was on Ver.1.11 and up until the update yesterday the relay clicked for any single track or file with different resolutions, but I just noticed when I started listening to music that it doesn’t click at all but still shows the change in resolution.

Thanks in advance to any reply.

[camott]

@OE333 Thanks again for the detailed reply. It is really wonderful to have responsiveness like this from a manufacturer on public forums.

My questioning stems from having recently acquired some power amps that are AES48 compliant. I am now looking at the DAC 200. The designer of the the amps is a big fan of AES48, the idea being that if both source and receiver are truly compliant, then one can essentially not worry about XLR interconnects impacting the SQ. Seems like a nice benefit though I recognize that in practice in may not matter as much.

[Miska]

9 minutes ago, camott said:

then one can essentially not worry about XLR interconnects impacting the SQ

 

I don't think AES48 has anything to do with interconnects as such. Cable interaction is separate from the connection type.

 

[camott]

Just now, Miska said:

I don't think AES48 has anything to do with interconnects as such. Cable interaction is separate from the connection type.

 

 

Fair enough, it looks like AES48 is concerned with the connectors, and not the cable used between. But I think the idea is that if connectors are constructed as per AES48 on both ends then it very strongly mitigates any potential cable interaction artifacts. (Which is why I said "essentially" above ...)

[Miska]

11 minutes ago, camott said:

Fair enough, it looks like AES48 is concerned with the connectors, and not the cable used between. But I think the idea is that if connectors are constructed as per AES48 on both ends then it very strongly mitigates any potential cable interaction artifacts. (Which is why I said "essentially" above ...)

 

I don't think these are related at all. Combination of driving/receiving electronics and cable properties define transfer function of the whole.

 

On my own device designs, I always add for example special cable capacitance compensation circuit to the cable driver to avoid things like square wave overshoots at the receiving end.

 

[linuxprophet]

Hi.

I updated my DAC200 and HA200 via the wonderful MP200 and also noticed the relay clicks have stopped. To be honest, I was a little scared of the clicks, even though I believe they are relays (stand to be corrected).

 

The updates are fine and the devices purr like none other. I am simply so pleased to have purchased such delectable units.

 

I have taken my Hifi Rose RA180... and boxed it like a Model 1 Cylon.

 

I'm now trying to figure out how to connect my SVS Subwoofer to the system, since the pair of M200s are connected via Balanced XLRs and we're advised not to use both XLRs and RCAs at the same time.

[Mist1Fu]

19 minutes ago, linuxprophet said:

Hi.

I updated my DAC200 and HA200 via the wonderful MP200 and also noticed the relay clicks have stopped. To be honest, I was a little scared of the clicks, even though I believe they are relays (stand to be corrected).

 

The updates are fine and the devices purr like none other. I am simply so pleased to have purchased such delectable units.

 

I have taken my Hifi Rose RA180... and boxed it like a Model 1 Cylon.

 

I'm now trying to figure out how to connect my SVS Subwoofer to the system, since the pair of M200s are connected via Balanced XLRs and we're advised not to use both XLRs and RCAs at the same time.

So it seems that the update made the relay clicking stop? I also noticed something else: the input light used to blink when no data or signal was present or coming through, now it doesn’t blink on USB input, but it does blink when the BNC input is selected and no signal or audio coming through.