T+A DAC 200

[robi20064]

I would also love to see a way to update FW from a PC even if it involves certain level of risk - as long as it does not involve the opening of the unit or soldering :)

[OE333]

On 12/13/2022 at 4:59 AM, Allan F said:

I don't know if I am imagining things or not. Has anyone else noticed a difference between the sound of the latest T+A Windows driver, ver. 2.24.0.0, and the earlier ver. 1.13.0.0? I don't know what changes have been made, or if those changes can affect the sound. Although both sound great, I think I may prefer the earlier version. I am running HQPlayer v.3 Desktop on a Windows 10 Pro PC, automatically upsampling to either DSD512 or PCM768.

 

Hi Allan,

 

I'm not sure where you found the above DAC200 driver version numbers - could you please give me a hint ?

 

The current Windows driver for the DAC200 has the version number  V 5.40.0.

You can download this latest version from the T+A website or directly from here:   https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/TA_3rd_Gen_USB_audio_driver.zip

 

 

 

[Allan F]

3 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

Hi Allan,

 

I'm not sure where you found the above DAC200 driver version numbers - could you please give me a hint ?

 

The current Windows driver for the DAC200 has the version number  V 5.40.0.

You can download this latest version from the T+A website or directly from here:   https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/TA_3rd_Gen_USB_audio_driver.zip

 

Hi @OE333

Thank you for replying to my post. I downloaded the latest version of the Windows USB driver from this link https://www.ta-hifi.de/en/support/series-200/support-dac-200-2/

At that link, I clicked on "Driver download" under "Software". The unzipped setup file from that link is the same as the one provided by clicking on the link in your post.

 

Mea culpa. The source of the confusion is entirely my Fault. My apologies. I am embarrassed to confess that I did not really look at the full name of the unzipped setup file, which I now see includes "v5.40.0". Rather, I had right clicked the file on "Properties" and then left clicked on "Details". Under Details, "File version 2.24.0.0" is displayed and that is what I posted. I did the same thing for the earlier unzipped setup file and obtained "File version 1.13.0.0". However, I now see that the latter setup file name includes "v5.30.0".

 

Are there particular technical reasons for updating to the latest USB driver? Or. perhaps the better question is: are there negative implications in sticking with the earlier USB driver version? I am aware that updating to the latest version is normally recommended. The reason I ask is that on my system my subjective impression, FWIW, is that I think I slightly prefer the sound of v5.30.0. Thank you in advance for your interest and assistance.

Regards, Allan

[jrsub]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:29 AM, jrsub said:

Yes, I will run it in fixed mode and see if the problem occurs.   When the issue occurred in the past, if I switch to fixed mode output while the issue was happening the problem would disappear until I switched back to variable mode.    

 

On 12/13/2022 at 2:48 AM, OE333 said:

 

This points to the volume control as cause for the problem.

 

Would it be possible to run the DAC in Fixed Mode for a couple of days to see if the problem also occurs in fixed mode ?

If the problem does NOT occur in fixed mode,  it would mean that we can be pretty sure that the cause of the issue is the volume control.

 

I ran the DAC 200 for 48 hours straight while in fixed output mode while actively  listening for about 10 of those hours.  No issue occurred.   Even though it appears that the volume control may have a problem from the tests we ran,  I also still wonder if the volume control issue could  be a result of some disruption with the USB signal.      I  noticed this comment in the manual:

 

 I mentioned that I once accidentally turned off the DAC 200 while it was still being fed music which resulted in the same problem with the left channel volume as when the problem appeared while I was actively listening.  This action is exactly what is warned about in the manual.   

 

So what I wonder is that when I had the problem initially where it would play okay for a long period of time and then lose volume in the left channel,  could this simply have been a delayed manifestation of me accidentally disrupting the USB connection or powering off the unit while I was first installing the unit?   I am now going to continue running the unit  in variable mode for a few days to see if the issue occurs knowing that I have not done any action described in the manual warning about the USB connection. 

 

OEM333,  I  did forward my issue description to my dealer who then contacted T+A to see how they want to handle the issue.   Not sure how you are aligned with the support team but you may hear from them.   I appreciate your help with my issue.

 

[OE333]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:50 PM, Allan F said:

Are there particular technical reasons for updating to the latest USB driver? Or. perhaps the better question is: are there negative implications in sticking with the earlier USB driver version? I am aware that updating to the latest version is normally recommended. The reason I ask is that on my system my subjective impression, FWIW, is that I think I slightly prefer the sound of v5.30.0. Thank you in advance for your interest and assistance.

Regards, Allan

 

Hi Allan,

you can stick to the v5.30.0 version if you like. This has no negative implications.

The driver is (and was) always very stable through all the time. The reason for new driver versions is normally that new devices come on the market and need to be included in the driver. So there is absolutely no need for updating the driver in your case.

 

Best,

Lothar

[OE333]

20 hours ago, jrsub said:

 

 I  noticed this comment in the manual:

 

 I mentioned that I once accidentally turned off the DAC 200 while it was still being fed music which resulted in the same problem with the left channel volume as when the problem appeared while I was actively listening.  This action is exactly what is warned about in the manual.   

 

So what I wonder is that when I had the problem initially where it would play okay for a long period of time and then lose volume in the left channel,  could this simply have been a delayed manifestation of me accidentally disrupting the USB connection or powering off the unit while I was first installing the unit?   I am now going to continue running the unit  in variable mode for a few days to see if the issue occurs knowing that I have not done any action described in the manual warning about the USB connection. 

 

OEM333,  I  did forward my issue description to my dealer who then contacted T+A to see how they want to handle the issue.   Not sure how you are aligned with the support team but you may hear from them.   I appreciate your help with my issue.

 

 

The warning in the manual to not disconnect the USB during operation was put into the manual because the disconnection of the USB link in some cases could crash the player software on the PC. There are some players that even need a re-boot of the PC to recover from an interruption of the USB connection.

 

Disconnecting the USB connection has absolutely no impact on the DAC200 - the DAC will just notice the interrupted USB connection and it will then mute the output signal. After re-inserting the USB cable, and restarting the player software on the PC everything should be back to normal operation. So don't worry about the DAC - disconnecting the USB cable can not cause any harm.

 

Regarding the volume issue: All your observations point to the volume control as the root of the evil.

I will discuss this matter with my former colleagues from the T+A service dept. and give them a few hints.

 

Regards,

Lothar

 

 

[jrsub]

5 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

The warning in the manual to not disconnect the USB during operation was put into the manual because the disconnection of the USB link in some cases could crash the player software on the PC. There are some players that even need a re-boot of the PC to recover from an interruption of the USB connection.

 

Disconnecting the USB connection has absolutely no impact on the DAC200 - the DAC will just notice the interrupted USB connection and it will then mute the output signal. After re-inserting the USB cable, and restarting the player software on the PC everything should be back to normal operation. So don't worry about the DAC - disconnecting the USB cable can not cause any harm.

 

Regarding the volume issue: All your observations point to the volume control as the root of the evil.

I will discuss this matter with my former colleagues from the T+A service dept. and give them a few hints.

 

Regards,

Lothar

 

 

Thanks Lothar.  Good to know that I wasn't accidentally causing the issue.   I have not had any issues with my music server (Aurender N200) crashing or having any other issues.  

[Allan F]

8 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

Hi Allan,

you can stick to the v5.30.0 version if you like. This has no negative implications.

The driver is (and was) always very stable through all the time. The reason for new driver versions is normally that new devices come on the market and need to be included in the driver. So there is absolutely no need for updating the driver in your case.

 

Best,

Lothar

 

Many thanks for your explanation and advice, Lothar. I had written to T+A regarding the differences between v5.40.0 and v5.30.0 and the following is from the reply I just received:

 

"There are improvements regarding stability and integration with Windows operating systems. Please have a look to the following list:

V5.40.0 (May 5, 2022)

-----------------------------------------------------

* New: multiple ASIO instances are now handled

* New: control panel supports multiple ASIO instances

* New: several registry parameters added

* New: new API version 5.9, some API functions added

* New: Installer now MSI based

* Fix: ASIO did not work if device is connected with invalid clock and then switched to a valid clock

* Chg: volume control names can be configured in the control panel

* Chg: Documentation"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jonniema]

On 12/13/2022 at 8:55 AM, OE333 said:

 

I will see what I can do...

I want to thank @OE333 for the tip. I updated the DAC200 via an MP200 (i was lucky, it was the only one in stock on my dealer and it was already sold to be picked up the next day!) 😅 JIT

 

Also would like to ask if anyone else is experiencing problems with Roon not being able to play songs after turning DAC off and on.

 

(playing via ASIO driver in native mode with DSD512 upsampling…)

 

Here’s what happens…

After a listening session i always turn DAC off and leave NUC running. The next time i want to listen i turn the DAC on and when press play on Roon UI it just ends up flying by all songs on the playlist/album until it says “nothing playing” as it cannot get control of the DAC.

 

To get it back to play i need to go to device setup on Roon, change any option and save.

 

I suspect this is a Roon issue and already reported, but they might be overwhelmed with requests and no answers still.

 

Tks

[OE333]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:52 PM, jonniema said:

After a listening session i always turn DAC off and leave NUC running. The next time i want to listen i turn the DAC on and when press play on Roon UI it just ends up flying by all songs on the playlist/album until it says “nothing playing” as it cannot get control of the DAC.

 

To get it back to play i need to go to device setup on Roon, change any option and save.

 

Is your Roon Server NUC running on Linux or Windows ?

I would like to reproduce this problem and see if I can find out anything.

But please give me a couple of days because currently I am very busy...

 

[jonniema]

4 minutes ago, OE333 said:

 

Is your Roon Server NUC running on Linux or Windows ?

I would like to reproduce this problem and see if I can find out anything.

But please give me a couple of days because currently I am very busy...

 

 

Take your time! I can only thank the fact you are even willing to look at it. 🙏

 

My Roon Server is running Windows 10 (tweaked with Audiophile Optimizer 3.0)

Can give you further info or collect data if needed.

 

 

Vielen dank!

 

[OE333]

There is good news about the PC based firmware update for the DAC200.

T+A is willing to support this and they will offer the required USB -> E2Link  programming adaptor through the T+A webshop.

 

I will give an update on this topic as soon as all details are clear.

[jrsub]

19 minutes ago, OE333 said:

There is good news about the PC based firmware update for the DAC200.

T+A is willing to support this and they will offer the required USB -> E2Link  programming adaptor through the T+A webshop.

 

I will give an update on this topic as soon as all details are clear.

Excellent news.   Thanks!

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 hours ago, OE333 said:

There is good news about the PC based firmware update for the DAC200.

T+A is willing to support this and they will offer the required USB -> E2Link  programming adaptor through the T+A webshop.

 

I will give an update on this topic as soon as all details are clear.

That’s excellent. 

[OE333]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:52 PM, jonniema said:

I want to thank @OE333 for the tip. I updated the DAC200 via an MP200 (i was lucky, it was the only one in stock on my dealer and it was already sold to be picked up the next day!) 😅 JIT

 

Also would like to ask if anyone else is experiencing problems with Roon not being able to play songs after turning DAC off and on.

 

(playing via ASIO driver in native mode with DSD512 upsampling…)

 

Here’s what happens…

After a listening session i always turn DAC off and leave NUC running. The next time i want to listen i turn the DAC on and when press play on Roon UI it just ends up flying by all songs on the playlist/album until it says “nothing playing” as it cannot get control of the DAC.

 

To get it back to play i need to go to device setup on Roon, change any option and save.

 

I suspect this is a Roon issue and already reported, but they might be overwhelmed with requests and no answers still.

 

Tks

 

Hi @jonniema,

I have investigated this problem yesterday and iI think it is more a roon related problem. It seems, that under certain circumstances, roon does not realize, that the USB connection to the DAC device is lost.

As you have also posed your question in the roon community forum, I have posted a more detailed reply to your case there. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/t-a-dac-200-thread/172007/18

 

I have also contacted my colleagues at T+A (and roon) and I will let you know what they found out after the X-mas holidays in January.

 

[jonniema]

2 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

Hi @jonniema,

I have investigated this problem yesterday and iI think it is more a roon related problem. It seems, that under certain circumstances, roon does not realize, that the USB connection to the DAC device is lost.

As you have also posed your question in the roon community forum, I have posted a more detailed reply to your case there. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/t-a-dac-200-thread/172007/18

 

I have also contacted my colleagues at T+A (and roon) and I will let you know what they found out after the X-mas holidays in January.

 

 

 

Hi @OE333!

 

Yes, I was 99% convinced it was a Roon issue dealing with the DAC after being turned off/on when specifically DSD Native was being used (it does not seem to happen with PCM).

I was not sure at the time though, if any of the Audiophile optimizer tweak options had to do with this issue... but it doesn't seem so at this point.

 

Thanks for the feedback and for the facilitating resolution with Roon as this is something that currently ruins a bit the user experience for me, and I suspect other might be experiencing the same.

 

 

Happy holidays!

 

 

[Allan F]

Until recently, I have left my DAC 200 on all the time. I decided to try using either ECO mode or manually turning the unit off, both of which I believe are supposed to place the DAC 200 in Standby mode.

 

I play all my music with HQ Player installed on my music server PC. It was my understanding that initiating playback was supposed to send a signal to the DAC 200 to activate it from Standby mode. However, this is not taking place regardless of whether I start playback via HQP from my music server PC or remotely via HQPD player. In order to initiate playback, I first have to manually turn on the DAC 200 and reboot my PC.

 

I don't know if this is a DAC 200 issue, an HQ Player issue, or a lack of understanding on my part.  Obviously, I can eliminate the problem by simply leaving the DAC 200 on all the time, but I would like to know why things are not working as I believe they should.

[jrsub]

With my Aurender music server initiating playback does not turn on the DAC 200.    I did not see anything in the user manual about a signal sensing power on feature.

[OE333]

13 hours ago, Allan F said:

Until recently, I have left my DAC 200 on all the time. I decided to try using either ECO mode or manually turning the unit off, both of which I believe are supposed to place the DAC 200 in Standby mode.

 

I play all my music with HQ Player installed on my music server PC. It was my understanding that initiating playback was supposed to send a signal to the DAC 200 to activate it from Standby mode. However, this is not taking place regardless of whether I start playback via HQP from my music server PC or remotely via HQPD player. In order to initiate playback, I first have to manually turn on the DAC 200 and reboot my PC.

 

I don't know if this is a DAC 200 issue, an HQ Player issue, or a lack of understanding on my part.  Obviously, I can eliminate the problem by simply leaving the DAC 200 on all the time, but I would like to know why things are not working as I believe they should.

 

It is neither a DAC issue nor a HQP issue.

The DAC200 needs to be switched ON manually - either by the front power button or by remote control. There (currently) is no automatic Switch-ON function triggered by the incoming music signal. Also the PC or HQP do not "send a signal" to switch the DAC ON.

 

Please note: When switched OFF the DAC is really off, not just in a standby state with darkened display but lots of circuitry still running. To save energy (as required by the European "EuP" regulations, only a minimalistic reactivation logic is kept running.

[Allan F]

7 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

It is neither a DAC issue nor a HQP issue.

The DAC200 needs to be switched ON manually - either by the front power button or by remote control. There (currently) is no automatic Switch-ON function triggered by the incoming music signal. Also the PC or HQP do not "send a signal" to switch the DAC ON.

 

Please note: When switched OFF the DAC is really off, not just in a standby state with darkened display but lots of circuitry still running. To save energy (as required by the European "EuP" regulations, only a minimalistic reactivation logic is kept running.

 

Thank you very much for the reply and explanation, Lothar. Mea culpa. I don't know where I got the idea that there is an automatic switch-on function. I must have read about an auto turn-on function for some other device and somehow conflated it with the automatic switch-off function of the DAC 200 in ECO mode, if no operation is detected for more than 30 minutes.

 

The DAC 200 User manual uses the term "standby-mode". However, under "Notes on Energy Saving", a more detailed explanation of operation under the EuP directive is provided:

The internal micro-processor constantly ensures that sub-assemblies which are not currently required are automatically switched off. The micro-processor itself operates in standby-mode at a relatively low clock speed, and only responds to the remote control receiver.

In standby-mode the current drain of the DAC 200 is less than 0.5 watt.

[Allan F]

I have to comment on T+A's excellent customer service. After writing to them and receiving a reply describing the differences between Windows USB driver versions 5.30.0 and 5.40.0, I subsequently received another email offering a link to download and test new version 5.50.0, which I am now using.

[jrsub]

32 minutes ago, Allan F said:

I have to comment on T+A's excellent customer service. After writing to them and receiving a reply describing the differences between Windows USB driver versions 5.30.0 and 5.40.0, I subsequently received another email offering a link to download and test new version 5.50.0, which I am now using.

Yes, they definitely have excellent customer service.    My other gear is Audio Research and McIntosh who also have excellent customer service and  T+A is equal to or better than them.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

41 minutes ago, Allan F said:

I have to comment on T+A's excellent customer service. After writing to them and receiving a reply describing the differences between Windows USB driver versions 5.30.0 and 5.40.0, I subsequently received another email offering a link to download and test new version 5.50.0, which I am now using.

Absolutely a first class organization. 

[OE333]

On 12/31/2022 at 10:17 PM, Allan F said:

I have to comment on T+A's excellent customer service. After writing to them and receiving a reply describing the differences between Windows USB driver versions 5.30.0 and 5.40.0, I subsequently received another email offering a link to download and test new version 5.50.0, which I am now using.

 

T+A has made the new driver version 5.50.0 publicly available on their website as a beta release for DAC200 and HA200.

This new driver can be downloaded directly via this link https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/TA_3rd_Gen_USB_audio_driver_BETA.zip

 

Driver version 5.50.0 comes with a bigger USB transfer buffer, meaning that the OS has to refill the buffer less often. This could (in some cases and depending on the PC) bring a slight improvement in SQ.

 

Please note:

The bigger buffer also means a slightly (4ms) longer latency of the driver. For pure audio applications this is normally not important but if you use the DAC in conjunction with video equipment (TV, DVD players) it might be necessary to adjust the LipSync delay time.

 

[SPAZ]

I'm totally aware of the price difference but has anyone compared the DAC200 to the Schiit Yggdrasil? If so, any thoughts between the two? My local dealer for the T&A does not have it in stock so it would have to be a special order item.

 

Thanks