Audirvana Studio

[Dandou]

11 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

ok, but... Chord DACs are not delta-sigma 😉

and, btw, no Amanero USB receiver

All Chord DACs are Delta-Sigma. As far as I know, Chord does not produce R-2R DACs. 

The fact that the USB implementation in these DACs is poor is a special case. As they don't have a I2S port, there's no way to input DSD to them by bypassing their USB port. 

I'm not a Chord user, but as long as I remember, the chip that controls the USB port of Chord DACs is named "Anamero", and not "Amanero". 

[pl_svn]

🙄 Chord DACs are FPGA

their USB receiver is proprietary as just everything

[Dandou]

6 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

🙄 Chord DACs are FPGA

their USB receiver is proprietary as just everything

Their FPGA chip operates the upsampling. It's a proprietary chip indeed. 

Their USB implementation is also proprietary. As far as I know, the chip that controls this port in their DACs is called "Anamero". But if I'm mistaken about its name, it does not change the fact that the USB implementation sucks in these DACs. 

[pl_svn]

5 minutes ago, Dandou said:

USB implementation sucks in these DACs

 

all you have said about Chord DACs so far is just wrong, so the above is either just your opinion or... one more of those wrong/uninformed assumptions, sorry

[Dandou]

Just now, pl_svn said:

all you have said about Chord DACs so far is just wrong, so the above is either just your opinion or... one more of those wrong/uninformed assumptions, sorry

I said nothing wrong about Chord DACs, check your facts with Chord users. 

[Dandou]

15 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

all you have said about Chord DACs so far is just wrong

To avoid the noisy USB port of their DAC and still upsample to high PCM rates of 768 KHz, Chord users use this device: 

 

https://audiobacon.net/2019/11/13/audiowise-inc-announces-src•dx-usb-to-dual-coax-s-pdif-bridge/

 

It's only utility is to avoid the USB port of the DAC. 

 

[Mike Rubin]

29 minutes ago, Dandou said:

 

I'm not a Chord user, but as long as I remember, the chip that controls the USB port of Chord DACs is named "Anamero", and not "Amanero". 

https://amanero.com/

[Dandou]

Thank you for the correction. 

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Dandou said:

Unfortunately, there's no way to get a good sound by inputting DSD to Chord DACs. 

The reason for that is that the only port through which it is possible to input DSD to Chord DACs is their USB port. But the implementation of the USB port in Chord DACs is very poor, and can be qualified as defective. When soud is input through this port, it triggers inside the DAC an Anamero chip that is extremely noisy. For this reason, it's better to avoid the USB port of Chord DACs, and to input through other ports. But their other ports are limited to a PCM input. 

It seems @jos has a couple of experiments he can do then. He can try upsampling to DSD with Audirvana and seeing whether he thinks the sound is bad or good; he can try upsampling in PCM with Audirvana; and he can try leaving everything to the DAC. And whatever he likes, he likes.

[Dandou]

11 minutes ago, Jud said:

It seems @jos has a couple of experiments he can do then.

It will be interesting if he posts us feedback. 

Upsampling to high rates of PCM and DSD to the USB port. Compare it to 192 KHz upsampling with the other ports, and to bit-perfect playback. 

[jos]

4 hours ago, Jud said:

What you could try in that case is to upsample with Audirvana to the highest rate the DAC (or streamer) will accept as input, whether PCM or DSD, and see if  you like that better than letting the DAC handle all the upsampling.

Hi Jud, I have tried this an I could not hear any difference. As far as I know my Chord DAC is doing DSD over PCM (DoP). And all of this sounds very good to my ears without stuttering, so I am happy after all.

[jos]

2 hours ago, Dandou said:

It will be interesting if he posts us feedback. 

Upsampling to high rates of PCM and DSD to the USB port. Compare it to 192 KHz upsampling with the other ports, and to bit-perfect playback. 

Hi Dandou, I told Jud already that I could not hear differences in any case of up-, or even down-sampling. But my ears are quite old already. My new LimeTree bride does not has an USB output, so I can’t test that, but I really don’t mind because of Rob Watts said: Toslink is is the best way to go, and I am using Toslink right now with a truly high quality cable at 96khz. I was using this cable, capable of 192khz, already with my (old) Yamaha player.

[Dandou]

53 minutes ago, jos said:

My new LimeTree bride does not has an USB output

Is this the model of your LimeTree streamer? 

 

https://lindemann-audio.de/products/limetree-series/bridge/?lang=en#Technical_specifications

 

[Dandou]

1 hour ago, jos said:

As far as I know my Chord DAC is doing DSD over PCM (DoP).

You must be using a Mac, like me, because the Mac handles only DoP. But your Qutest can handle both Native DSD and DoP. 

[jos]

9 hours ago, Dandou said:

Is this the model of your LimeTree streamer? 

 

https://lindemann-audio.de/products/limetree-series/bridge/?lang=en#Technical_specifications

 

Yes, and I am using my MAC in conjunction with a Synology NAS for my music. Yesterday I installed an UPnP app on the NAS, so I can now even play without AS from within the Limetree IOS app, if I like to do so. Two important reasons for buying this particular device is the optical and coaxial output, so I can continue using my expensive Toslink cable, but also the included medical grade power supply, so I don't have to buy and place an expensive LPS. I believe the Limetree 2 can't do DSD, which I don't mind. The former version could, I have read somewhere. The Limetree is comparable with SOtM in sound quality and quite small, so easy to place for me.

[Dandou]

28 minutes ago, jos said:

I believe the Limetree 2 can't do DSD, which I don't mind.

This was the reason for which I asked you if this was the model that you bought. 

Since it does not support DSD, the whole discussion over DSD was irrelevant. And any way, for DSD input you have to use the USB port of the Qutest, which is not its best, and that unsurprisingly is not the one that Rob Watts recommends. 

[Dandaman]

When streaming Qobuz thru Audirvana Studio, sometimes "Other albums by ..." appears at the bottom of the screen pushing the transport controls completely offscreen.  Scrolling down doesn't bring the controls back.  How do I get them back onscreen?

[jos]

Right now I am listening to the Asset UPnP app from within the Lindemann Limetree app, and it sounds very good too. It also did a very good job finding some faults in my Muziek Database directory (around. 2500 albums). An important advantage is that I don't have to use my computer every time, when I want to listen music, so it saves money too and the environment. That brings me thinking about the Audirvana app. Should AS/Damien make a stand alone app with very good sound too? Because now it's strictley tied to the computer (Windows/Mac) application. Any thoughts about this? If we can have both seems to me great value, for the same fee of course, or a little bit more. Now, I did pony up 40 euro's for the Asset UPnP app.

[stefano_mbp]

21 minutes ago, jos said:

I did pony up 40 euro's for the Asset UPnP app.

Just for curiosity
Did you compare Asset with Minimserver?
Why did you favor Asset and what didn't you like in Minimserver?

[jos]

1 hour ago, stefano_mbp said:

Just for curiosity
Did you compare Asset with Minimserver?
Why did you favor Asset and what didn't you like in Minimserver?

I did had it, but this one is much better in my opinion. But..but, I did use the free version, not the paid Minim-server version. I still have to work a few things out with Asset, for example Replay Gain, but so far so good 😊. Happy 😃 I discovered this app and quite handy using it from within the Limetree app. This device is great sounding in conjunction with my Chord Qutest DAC. Btw, there is a free trial.

[stefano_mbp]

@jos Unlike you, I am a great Minimserver admirer, a matter of taste.

[jos]

2 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

@jos Unlike you, I am a great Minimserver admirer, a matter of taste.

Indeed, it’s quite personal too.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, jos said:

Should AS/Damien make a stand alone app with very good sound too? Because now it's strictley tied to the computer (Windows/Mac) application.

Some of AS’s features require sufficient computing power that right now I don’t think a phone app is an option. As the processors in phones and tablets become more powerful, perhaps someday.

 

(All my personal thinking and not necessarily indicative of what Damien is planning.)

[jos]

22 hours ago, Jud said:

Some of AS’s features require sufficient computing power that right now I don’t think a phone app is an option. As the processors in phones and tablets become more powerful, perhaps someday.

 

(All my personal thinking and not necessarily indicative of what Damien is planning.)

Hi Jud, You are probably right; Asset UPNP is also working with additional NAS computer power (backend indexing software). And not everyone is having, or want to have, a NAS at home. In the end, I think, almost everyone in the so called ‘civilised word’, will be migrated to the clouds. And then we can probably use Audirvāna from within the clouds too on several local devices.  In the mean time local devices will also get more horsepower.

[Dandou]

There's an interesting thread on Audirvana forum in which Studio users discuss UPNP issues with streamers, and post opinions on which streamers would work better with Studio : 

 

https://community.audirvana.com/t/auralic-recommended/31672