Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 37 minutes ago, Jud said: So it appears to be the network rather than Audirvana Studio’ You are right, the network maybe the reason for the issues of @jos. But he did not proceed with any trials with other players to try to discern the reason for the stuttering. I've been using Audirvana players for years, and never had stuttering. I tried Studio extensively from May to July, and had no stuttering. Link to comment
bobbmd Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 @RunHomeSlow and others: my new Mac mini M1 16GB RAM transferred/migrated everything from my old late 2012 Mac Mini---AS (and ROON and desktop versions of TIDAL & Qubuz PLUS my previously 'disappeared' iTunes library now MUSIC--including all The Dead's first time/debut played live songs from 1965-1995 that I downloaded from Archive.org) without a hitch all my self made playlists also. I didn't have to do anything and without having to do anything I considered esoteric or beyond my understanding. thank you all for your suggestions cpvniii 1 Link to comment
jos Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 6 hours ago, Dandou said: This Yamaha is a streamer that you own. Unless you have the intention to throw it to the garbage, it's always good to know what it is able of. And testing software won't take you a lot of time, if you do it with simple UPNP players. Foobar is a free player. Downloading its basic version, that is very easy to use, loading to it a few albums, and setting it to stream UPNP, won't take you more than ten minutes. It's the same thing for McConnect (a free player, if you have an iPhone) or similar players for Android phones. Okay, you are right, I will try some testing soon. Link to comment
jos Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 6 hours ago, Jud said: 1. Audirvana Studio doesn’t stutter for me. (I have a microRendu using UPnP with Studio, running into a Pro-Ject DAC.) 2. Whenever I’ve had a glitch in streaming over UPnP to Audirvana Studio, I’ve tested with HQPlayer, which uses its own NAA protocol rather than UPnP. The same glitches have occurred there. So it appears to be the network rather than Audirvana Studio’s handling of UPnP that was causing the problem, at least in those instances. Yes, it can be a network problem too, but I ruled that out so far I could test it. In the beginning AS was crashing too, but AS solved that as they told me and asked me to test a beta version. In my opinion it is still an interface problem. Most times AS/Damien is able to solve this kind of problems, but perhaps this one is a bride to far. No one is to blame and I wish I kept my ultraRendu. However, I will do some more testing. Link to comment
jos Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 16 hours ago, Dandou said: Hi @jos , I hope that your new streamer will fix this issue, and will satisfy you. The various players do not stream the same way, even if you set them to stream bit-perfect. (For instance, AS decodes the tracks, while JRiver streams without decoding them, and they are decoded by the streamer.) Did you try to stream to the Yamaha with other players to check if stuttering occurs with them as well? Hi Dandou and Jud, I was just trying Foobar and it is stuttering too with high-res files (192/24). With lower res files (CD and lower), I don't have a problem, so I don't think it's a network problem but an interface problem. Otherwise, I would have problems with CD files too, I think. Any further thoughts would be welcome? Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Hi @jos , Does the stuttering with AS occur also only with Hi Res tracks? Link to comment
jos Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Dandou said: Hi @jos , Does the stuttering with AS occur also only with Hi Res tracks? Yes, I noticed in AS that everything starts to stutter above 44.1/16; how higher how more stuttering; 192/24 starts to stutter direct. Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 In this case, the problem, in my opinion; is related to the network. Because if it was related to the UPNP rendering engine of the streamer, you should have got, logically, stuttering with CD files as well. There's maybe a weak element in the chain that provokes the issue, with a more intense stream. To be completely sure about it, the idea of @Jud to check with HQPlayer is very good, because it will use NAA, another rendering engine, on your streamer. If you get stuttering with HQPlayer with a stream above 16-44, it will be almost sure that there's an issue in the network. You can download the trial version of HQPlayer Desktop for free, and use it for the trial. It's a bit difficult to set properly this player for your trial, but if you PM me, I'll help you to do it. Link to comment
biosailor Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 So you have, by any chance, somewhere in your network WiFi involved? WiFi typically shows this behaviour: lower streaming rates work fine, as soon as you go to 24/96, stuttering sets in (at least in my case). Just an idea. On the other hand, I would most definitely try Roon. Its transmission protocol is RAAT, therefore entirely different from UPnP, which can also be flaky, depending on implementation. Roon RAAT is rock solid! Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, biosailor said: Roon RAAT is rock solid! NAA is also rock solid. For a quick trial, it's OK. Link to comment
biosailor Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, Dandou said: NAA is also rock solid. For a quick trial, it's OK. As it happens, I ran into problems with HQP/NAA today. Never ever happened with Roon (though I prefer AS for sound). Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 23 minutes ago, biosailor said: Never ever happened with Roon If he installs Roon, just to check the stuttering issue with his UPNP players, he will have to give his Credit Card number, and he will lose the opportunity to try Roon in depth for free, if he'll be interested in doing so in a few weeks or months. Link to comment
biosailor Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 42 minutes ago, Dandou said: If he installs Roon, just to check the stuttering issue with his UPNP players, he will have to give his Credit Card number, and he will lose the opportunity to try Roon in depth for free, if he'll be interested in doing so in a few weeks or months. Well, sometimes you have to give in when you want to sort things out. There’s no free lunch … Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 18 minutes ago, biosailor said: There’s no free lunch … True… But why do it, when he can just check with HQPlayer what he gets at 16-44.1 and 24-192 streamings. Link to comment
rodrigaj Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 19 hours ago, Dandou said: (For instance, AS decodes the tracks, while JRiver streams without decoding them, and they are decoded by the streamer.) How can a streamer work if it does not decode? "The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I don't understand your question. If the track is in Flac or WavPack formats, for instance, AS will decompress it and then will stream it. While JRiver will send the track to the streamer in its original, compressed format. Link to comment
Jud Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 7 hours ago, jos said: Yes, it can be a network problem too, but I ruled that out so far I could test it. In the beginning AS was crashing too, but AS solved that as they told me and asked me to test a beta version. In my opinion it is still an interface problem. Most times AS/Damien is able to solve this kind of problems, but perhaps this one is a bride to far. No one is to blame and I wish I kept my ultraRendu. However, I will do some more testing. We may be referring to the same thing in different terms. When I mentioned the “network,” I was talking about UPnP/NAA and all the hardware past the PC/Mac. I’m guessing your reference to the “interface” is to either UPnP or the Yamaha, so it would be included in what I called the “network.” In any case, checking with HQPlayer (trial version) if you can will give you a good idea whether it’s the Yamaha hardware or its particular implementation of UPnP that is the problem. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
rodrigaj Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Dandou said: I don't understand your question. If the track is in Flac or WavPack formats, for instance, AS will decompress it and then will stream it. While JRiver will send the track to the streamer in its original, compressed format. Forgive me, I was just being anal. You used the word "decode" originally. Here you use "decompress", which is technically the more correct term. Encode / Decode may or may not involve compression / decompression. For most people, they may as well be the same thing. "The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, rodrigaj said: Encode / Decode may or may not involve compression What you say is true, and English is not my mother's tongue. I don't know what AS does with a track of an uncompressed format like AIFF, for instance. It's possible that it decodes it in order to convert it to its streaming format. But this is only an assumption, and I don't know how AS behaves precisely. Link to comment
rodrigaj Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 BTW, I just started my AS / AS Remote trial using a mac mini 2014. I once had a license for Audirvana, back when it was referred to as Aplus. So far, it is working fine, although the UI is somewhat strange (i.e., the tiny, tiny little speaker on the right bottom of the screen, which functions the same as the apps preferences). I have JRiver on the same mac mini with JRemote on my iPad so I am making comparisions. Not sure if I will go for the AS subscription model though. "The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 48 minutes ago, rodrigaj said: Encode / Decode Actually, when I think about it, I'm sure that AS decodes even uncompressed tracks in order to convert them to the Bit depth format of the DAC. I remember that when I tried it this summer, it was displaying the path that the track follows. For a bit-perfect playback (no DSP at all) of a CD quality file, AS was displaying with my DAC the following information: 16/44.1 > 32/44.1. Link to comment
rodrigaj Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I can check this tonight, as I have lots of AIFF files. Since I'm just trying it out for functionality (no DSP) I'll see if the AIFF files are decoded by AS. My DAC doesn't have any display of streaming info, so I'm hoping A Remote shows it. "The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. Link to comment
Dandou Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 There are plenty of threads on Audirvana forum that prove it. There were people who thought that the conversion of the tracks to the bit-depth format of the DAC was a dysfunction of the player. It was the case of the guy who opened this thread: https://community.audirvana.com/t/windows-10-and-studios-bit-depth-reporting-see-signal-path-asio-sound-driver/27766/1 Link to comment
jos Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Thank you all for your support so far! 😇 I tried to download HQPlayer, but my Catalina version is not high enough. Tomorrow I will look in to it again, when I have some more time. Roon is not an option right now, because it needs the SMB protocol, I noticed, and I have only the AFP protocol installed. Link to comment
jos Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Today I received, sooner then expected, my new Lindemann Limetree bride II, and I will try that first. But I will also compare it, sound and stuttering wise, to my Yamaha player. The first one connected with a QED quartz reference Toslink cable, and the second one connected with a QED quality coaxial cable to my Chord DAC. both playing at 192/24. Link to comment
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