Apple M1 chip for music server?

[barrows]

Surprised there was not thread on this yet, so here we are.  Apple has not rally released details yet on this chip, I am wondering how fast it is really going to be.  For example, will it possibly be fast enough to run HQPlayer with EC modulators for conversions to DSD 256?  Too much to ask for perhaps?

I really like using a Mac Mini as a server in my (optically Networked) set up.

[robi20064]

I was also thinking of grabbing an M1 based mini once Roon has a native Core build for it :)

 

There are some minor tech info and speculations over at AnandTech.

 

https://www.anandtech.com/print/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive

 

[matthias]

I do not think that the M1 is powerful enough for EC modulators.

But they are working on a new smaller Mac Pro which could be fit for the task.

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/apple-smaller-mac-pro-apple-silicon/

 

Matt

[barrows]

14 minutes ago, matthias said:

I do not think that the M1 is powerful enough for EC modulators.

But they are working on a new smaller Mac Pro which could be fit for the task.

 

Matt

While I kind of figured that it would be too good to be possible, what are you basing your opinion on?  My understanding is that for Intel, a I7-9700K is the necessary "minimum" (those chips are selling pretty cheap these days as well).  Jussi says base clock rate is generally the dominating factor when trying to run HQP 4 and the EC modulators

and the I7-9700K runs at a base rate of 3.6 GHz.  So far I have seen no info on clock rates for the M1.

 

As Apple has said they will transition fully to their own chips throughout the line within the next two years, I am sure we will see more powerful chips from them for Mac Pro desktops, and super high performance laptops.

[matthias]

2 minutes ago, barrows said:

While I kind of figured that it would be too good to be possible, what are you basing your opinion on?  My understanding is that for Intel, a I7-9700K is the necessary "minimum" (those chips are selling pretty cheap these days as well).  Jussi says base clock rate is generally the dominating factor when trying to run HQP 4 and the EC modulators

and the I7-9700K runs at a base rate of 3.6 GHz.  So far I have seen no info on clock rates for the M1.

 

As Apple has said they will transition fully to their own chips throughout the line within the next two years, I am sure we will see more powerful chips from them for Mac Pro desktops, and super high performance laptops.

 

I just think that the base clock rate might be too low for EC modulators. But I am sure someone will try the new Mini and share the results.

As you said the M1 is just the beginning. They will launch in the next years more powerful processors. This M1 generation computers are not yet a perfect match for the new chips, we will have to wait for 2021 or 2022 for this.

Maybe Jussi will make some changes for HQP as well for the new ARM based architecture, we will see.

 

Matt

[robi20064]

I could not find exact numbers on clock speed yet, but this might be some indication (from the Mac mini main page):

 

"Testing conducted by Apple in October 2020 using preproduction Mac mini systems with Apple M1 chip, and production 3.6GHz quad-core Intel Core i3-based Mac mini systems, all configured with 16GB of RAM and 2TB SSD. Prerelease Final Cut Pro 10.5 tested using a 55-second clip with 4K Apple ProRes RAW media, at 4096x2160 resolution and 59.94 frames per second, transcoded to Apple ProRes 422. Performance tests are conducted using specific computer systems and reflect the approximate performance of Mac mini."

[Miska]

4 hours ago, barrows said:

For example, will it possibly be fast enough to run HQPlayer with EC modulators for conversions to DSD 256?  Too much to ask for perhaps?

 

Very unlikely, it is replacing Intel's U series CPUs, the ones intended for ultralight notebooks (and also used in NUCs). Not so far any bigger CPUs. Likely in future they'll have also bigger CPUs with more cores and maybe the low power cores dropped out to make space for more big ones.

 

I'm planning to eventually get the Mac Mini with M1 for testing.

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

Likely in future they'll have also bigger CPUs with more cores and maybe the low power cores dropped out to make space for more big ones.

Yep for the iMac's and Mac Pro coming next year. They won't have to worry as much about efficiency and can go for more performance than M1

[Bones13]

In my reading on the Apple site, the Mac Mini will still have a fan. Much of the non-Apple software will need to be re-written/compiled for the M1.

[Miska]

8 hours ago, Bones13 said:

In my reading on the Apple site, the Mac Mini will still have a fan.

 

Yes, only MacBook Air doesn't have. Mini has, they were showing it also on the special event video. The M1 likely has configurable TDP like some Intel CPUs have too.

 

8 hours ago, Bones13 said:

Much of the non-Apple software will need to be re-written/compiled for the M1.

 

Yeah, I'm still thinking how to approach this. Not too happy to start distributing two different builds of HQPlayer, just recently got rid of doing that for Windows (with v4 the 32-bit version was discontinued). But OTOH, I'm anyway already doing that for Linux anyway, so I just have to get over and do it.

 

[matthias]

19 hours ago, barrows said:

So far I have seen no info on clock rates for the M1.

 

The base clock rate is 3.2GHz according to this source:

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/11/m1-macbook-air-first-benchmark/

 

Matt

[matthias]

44 minutes ago, matthias said:

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/11/m1-macbook-air-first-benchmark/

 

Besides the great performance I am curious if the new ARM based Macs do also have a better SQ with upcoming native HQP and native Audirvana.

 

Matt

[matthias]

Mac Mini M1 is on top of Single Core benchmarks and quite good on Multi-Core benchmarks:

 

https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks

 

Matt

[ccc888]

Has anybody get one yet? Really want to know how HQPlayer performs under M1 chip. I use HQP3, don’t even know if it’s supported by the new OS.

[barrows]

7 hours ago, ccc888 said:

Has anybody get one yet? Really want to know how HQPlayer performs under M1 chip. I use HQP3, don’t even know if it’s supported by the new OS.

@Miska, has mentioned he is getting an M1 Mac for development.  I suspect he will be the one to weigh in on this.  New code will probably have to be written to run with M1 Macs natively (without rosetta).  

[Miska]

Good news is that Apple has today shipped my Mac Mini with M1 and it is supposed to arrive by Dec 7th. So it will come earlier than expected.

 

I have some amount of ARM code already since HQPlayer Embedded is already shipping for 64-bit ARM platforms like RasPi4 and NXP's i.MX 8M. Apple has some annoying shortcomings in their Xcode tool set though that add some extra challenges in some areas.

 

[AudioDoctor]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

Good news is that Apple has today shipped my Mac Mini with M1 and it is supposed to arrive by Dec 7th. So it will come earlier than expected.

 

I have some amount of ARM code already since HQPlayer Embedded is already shipping for 64-bit ARM platforms like RasPi4 and NXP's i.MX 8M. Apple has some annoying shortcomings in their Xcode tool set though that add some extra challenges in some areas.

 

 

Good news, I picked up an 8GB base model just to play with, it seems to be a neat little device.

[jacquesr]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

Good news is that Apple has today shipped my Mac Mini with M1 and it is supposed to arrive by Dec 7th. So it will come earlier than expected.

 

I have some amount of ARM code already since HQPlayer Embedded is already shipping for 64-bit ARM platforms like RasPi4 and NXP's i.MX 8M. Apple has some annoying shortcomings in their Xcode tool set though that add some extra challenges in some areas.

 

Miska - do not underestimate yourself... You can do this!

 

For me the big question is.... How to provide clean, Uptoned power to this new MacMini... Like many, I have a 2014 mini w Uptone kit. Since I got my Aqua LinQ, I have been tortured with this thought...  Would a better server (SonicTransporter? Summus?) help? Now what about a M1 Mini?

[matthias]

1 hour ago, jacques_racine said:

Miska - do not underestimate yourself... You can do this!

 

For me the big question is.... How to provide clean, Uptoned power to this new MacMini... Like many, I have a 2014 mini w Uptone kit. Since I got my Aqua LinQ, I have been tortured with this thought...  Would a better server (SonicTransporter? Summus?) help? Now what about a M1 Mini?

 

@Superdad?

 

Matt

[jacquesr]

Yeah, where is Superdad when we need him?

[ccc888]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Good news, I picked up an 8GB base model just to play with, it seems to be a neat little device.

May I ask how is it running HQPlayer?

[AudioDoctor]

2 minutes ago, ccc888 said:

May I ask how is it running HQPlayer?

 

It isn't.

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

@Superdad?

 

Matt

 

Hi Matt:

As most here know, our unique Mac mini DC-conversion/Linear Fan Controller Kit (MMK) is fully compatible with Mac mini model years 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2014--all the thin silver ones just before the "Space Grey" 2018 redesign.

 

I just watched a couple of the first teardowns of the 2020 M1 mini. Wow, lots of space in there!  And benchmarking site reviews show the power consumption to be easily within the range of our choke-filtered, dual-output JS-2, which is capable of delivering up to 7.4A at 12V (given full 120/240VAC input, somewhat less at 110/220V).

I recall that with the 2018 model Apple significantly upsized the output current rating of the stock internal SMPS, and they may have kept a similar supply for the 2020. I'm not sure why though. Does anyone really think that little Mac mini needs a 12.5 amp PS?!

 

The truth is, as much as it would be fun to design and offer an UpTone MMK for the 2020 Mac minis (I'v already replied to a dozen+ requests for it), John Swenson and I are way too busy on other projects to divert the attention.  We might sell a couple hundred MMKs per year, but compared to products that will sell 1-2 thousand per year (and at higher prices than what we would charge for an MMK)...

 

Cheers,

--Alex C.

[ccc888]

15 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

It isn't.

Do you mean it doesn’t run HQPlayer at all?

[AudioDoctor]

35 minutes ago, ccc888 said:

Do you mean it doesn’t run HQPlayer at all?

 

I mean that's not what I am using it for.