Why I cannot hear the difference: DSD256 vs 44/16?

[Marcos]

Hi,

I cannot hear ANY difference between 44/16 and DSD256 as per the following signal paths:

 

PC HQPlayer —>
Wifi —>
NUC Roon bridge —>
USB Denafrips Venus II —>
Schiit Vidar —>
Magnepan LRS

 

 

 

And this:

NUC Tidal/Roon —>
USB Denafrips Venus II —>
Schiit Vidar —>
Magnepan LRS

 

Denafrips Venus II recognizes and plays both signals, but I cannot tell the difference.

Thank you for your inputs!
Regards, Marc

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I wish there was an answer to your question, but there really isn't.

[botrytis]

It really depends on the source files. I thank that is one key.

 

Also, you are converting the DSD files down, since Schitt cannot play native DSD.

[davide256]

1 hour ago, Marcos said:

Hi,

I cannot hear ANY difference between 44/16 and DSD256 as per the following signal paths:

 

PC HQPlayer —>
Wifi —>
NUC Roon bridge —>
USB Denafrips Venus II —>
Schiit Vidar —>
Magnepan LRS

 

 

 

And this:

NUC Tidal/Roon —>
USB Denafrips Venus II —>
Schiit Vidar —>
Magnepan LRS

 

Denafrips Venus II recognizes and plays both signals, but I cannot tell the difference.

Thank you for your inputs!
Regards, Marc

 

  I've experienced that my CD rate issues are degradation as signal passes through the USB chain,

that resampling CD rate to much higher rates with HQPlayer helps quite a bit to mitigate vagueness of background instruments and irritating artifacts.

Happy I made the change to a Chord Mojo from the Schiit Gungnir DAC for that reason.... up converting to 192 was a mild difference vs going to

706/DSD256 with the Mojo

[fas42]

Digital replay chains are typically extremely sensitive to precisely what the chain is that's used to convert the audio into soundwaves - that's been the nature of the beast for 4 decades, 🙂. Upsampling, digital transfer methods, formats, source audio storage - everything matters! What the story should actually be is that everything prior to the point where the digital is finally an analogue signal is completely irrelevant - but most know that this is not the case, in the real world - at the moment 😉.

 

So, DSD256 should sound exactly like 44/16 - if everything worked as well as it theoretically is supposed to. Audiophiles love the idea that there are infinite variations to the SQ - and the standard of the implementations of the technology typically ensure that they will always have plenty of variety to play with, 😜.

[giordy60]

I use a denafrips, but the entry level of the house .... the ares II.
same chain .... Hqp on server> naa on second pc> roon + Tidal on mac-mini, I use as preferences the up sampling in pcm at 1411-1536khz and / or dsd 512. the settings are those in the picture....

 

yet the differences are audible .... the files are almost all 16 / 44.1 .... on pcm greater detail, on dsd sound always well finished but slightly more rounded .... both are fantastic ... it is just a matter of taste.
if I let the file play in its original form (16 / 44.1) without filters, without modulators and without upsampling .... the sound tends to flatten out a bit.
these are just my impressions.

[daverich4]

On 11/2/2020 at 12:55 PM, botrytis said:

It really depends on the source files. I thank that is one key.

 

Also, you are converting the DSD files down, since Schitt cannot play native DSD.

His Schiit Vidar is an amp, not a DAC.

[AudioDoctor]

Maybe its your ears?

 

One way to make a good outcome of this situation is to realize that now you can enjoy music at a much cheaper price point.

[Rexp]

Or you can see the Emperor has no clothes on. 

[Acholate]

I have Ares II and Terminator.

There is very clear difference between DSD256 and 44/16.

At least I think you should be able to tell that there is volume difference between two. DSD256 clearly play quieter in my system.

Maybe there is something wrong in your chain.

Did you check Venus front panel? DSD led should be on when playing DSD.

 

[Teresa]

On 11/2/2020 at 8:52 AM, Marcos said:

Hi,

I cannot hear ANY difference between 44/16 and DSD256 as per the following signal paths:

 

PC HQPlayer —>
Wifi —>
NUC Roon bridge —>
USB Denafrips Venus II —>
Schiit Vidar —>
Magnepan LRS

 

 

 

And this:

NUC Tidal/Roon —>
USB Denafrips Venus II —>
Schiit Vidar —>
Magnepan LRS

 

Denafrips Venus II recognizes and plays both signals, but I cannot tell the difference.

Thank you for your inputs!
Regards, Marc

 

 

Your screenshots show the source on both as TIDAL FLAC 44.1kHZ 16bit 2ch. So are you comparing TIDAL FLAC 44.1kHZ 16bit 2ch upsampled to DSD256 versus not upsampled, and not comparing DSD256 versus 44.1kHz?

 

[Marcos]

Hi Teresa,

I am comparing straight 44/16 vs the same upsampled to DSD256. 

[davide256]

42 minutes ago, Marcos said:

Hi Teresa,

I am comparing straight 44/16 vs the same upsampled to DSD256. 

mmm, makes me wonder if this is Tidal unique to your set up. What happens if you do same with a local 44/16 file thats decently recorded?

[One and a half]

Extreme upsampling contains processing noise which is mistaken for ‘clarity’. Since the OP is using USB to the DAC, this further exacerbates the issue, unless there’s a USB fixer in the chain that minimises noise from the host.

If you listen long enough to upsampling, the sound becomes tedious to the point of irritating, reverting then to the standard sample rate of the source then sounds ‘as intended’. IMHO.

[bogi]

9 hours ago, One and a half said:

Extreme upsampling contains processing noise which is mistaken for ‘clarity’. Since the OP is using USB to the DAC, this further exacerbates the issue, unless there’s a USB fixer in the chain that minimises noise from the host.

If you listen long enough to upsampling, the sound becomes tedious to the point of irritating, reverting then to the standard sample rate of the source then sounds ‘as intended’. IMHO.

 

These pictures https://audiophilestyle.com/blogs/entry/428-ifi-idsd-micro-measurements/

show the opposite. They show how high frequency noise lowers with upsampling - when correctly implemented.

 

I have no complain about the computer noise possible influence. Computer noise transferred in analog form through USB cable maybe could find a way to intermodulate into audible range in analog parts of the chain.