New D/D Converters from Denafrips

[richard_crl032]

Hi All,

 

First of all, daisy chain of Avatar and gaia input to oxco clock output of T+ works !! This is really a denafrips ecosystem of digital playback though not advertised as such by denafrips 😃

 

Secondly, key objective of getting aes-ebu output of my Bel Canto fm-1 tuner to gaia to convert to i2s and synced to oxco clock of T+ sounds so much better ..  more detailed and clean with blacker background like veil had been lifted as compared to direct aes-ebu output directly to T+. Asked my dotter as I switch between the 2 and she remarked "you need to ask ? So obvious !" 🤣

 

Thirdly, on this main query if usb input directly to T+ or via gaia to convert to i2s that is synced to the oxco clock of T+, there is no miracle for the usb of my Antipodes ex and sounded less detailed and less engaging.

 

Speculative but the usb output from my Antipodes is no slouch and does not benefit from going via gaia but a lesser usb source may.

 

Similarly, the aes-ebu of my Bel Canto tuner benefitted very much via the gaia after conversion to i2s and synced to the ocxo clock of T+ but perhaps a higher quality aes-ebu or other digital source of say esoteric k series transport may not ... Avatar that I tested for sure benefits when synced to T+ .. more solid imaging and prat.

 

Hope this helps and YMMV since system dependent especially on quality of digital sources planned for gaia, personal preference and past experience ... I am still enjoying my Bel Canto fm 1 (this betters previous Accuphase T1000) for the last 2 hrs and it is unbelievable that fm radio can sound this good 😍😍

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: Black gaia with customised blue leds ordered as with a 0.75m Argentus hdmi cable 🥰🥰

 

 

[richard_crl032]

Speculative but the usb output from my Antipodes is no slouch and does not benefit from going via gaia but a lesser usb source may.

 

Hi All,

 

For completeness of the abovementioned, I connected my allo's usb bridge to the gaia and behold the needed validation ... the sound quality improved to more detailed, dense and musical presentation ! 😃

 

Believe this final update sums up the outcome of my planned venture with gaia with synced clock to T+ and i2s and should help bros here to consider the digital source quality if gaia will improve the sound quality of your system if you have the T+.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

 

[richard_crl032]

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, richard_crl032 said:

Believe this final update sums up the outcome of my planned venture with gaia with synced clock to T+ and i2s and should help bros here to consider the digital source quality if gaia will improve the sound quality of your system if you have the T+.

 

My understanding is you’re override the Gaia clock with the TP+ one.

 

I suppose removing the clock will change the result ?

Or maybe i2s requires the DAC clock. 

 

Conclusion is based on AES/EBU from FM radio and usb in from the Allo Usb bridge.

USB from server wasn’t any benefit. (Maybe cause USB is already very good). 
 

Also if you’re overriding the clock, one should think Iris would do the job almost as good 😀
 

[richard_crl032]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

My understanding is you’re override the Gaia clock with the TP+ one.

 

I suppose removing the clock will change the result ?

Or maybe i2s requires the DAC clock. 

 

Conclusion is based on AES/EBU from FM radio and usb in from the Allo Usb bridge.

USB from server wasn’t any benefit. (Maybe cause USB is already very good). 
 

Also if you’re overriding the clock, one should think Iris would do the job almost as good 😀
 

 

Hi R1200CL,

 

Clarification as below that I hope helps and accurate .. almost 3 am now and had been a long but fruitful day.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

My understanding is you’re override the Gaia clock with the TP+ one.

Richard: Affirmative .. to me, T+ one is superior being sealed and expected other SQ related treatments e.g. psu etc. and hence doing so.

 

I suppose removing the clock will change the result ?

Richard: Did not test out and expectedly so since you lose superior ocxo clock of T+ and you lose single synced clock but 2 separate clocks.

 

Or maybe i2s requires the DAC clock. 

Richard: Negative, clock sync of gaia can be disabled.

 

Conclusion is based on AES/EBU from FM radio and usb in from the Allo Usb bridge.

Richard: Affirmative on both .. that is my motivation in getting the gaia for synced clock and i2s connectivity for primarily the fm radio while the usb input from the Allo usb bridge signature is a bonus.

 

USB from server wasn’t any benefit. (Maybe cause USB is already very good). 

Richard: Affirmative
 

Also if you’re overriding the clock, one should think Iris would do the job almost as good 😀

Richard:  Affirmative, almost as good indeed for at least usb from allo's usb bridge signature since Iris is with only usb input but does not serve my purpose for fm radio via aes-ebu. Also believe other SQ related treatments matter albeit not verified since not aware of the details of these treatments and no Iris to test out. Lastly, spending another sgd700 for the Iris and say sgd1k for added good power cable, hdmi cable, 2x bnc clock cables in additional to what you already spent on usb based server e.g. sgd500 allo's usb bridge signature amounts to sgd2.2k which may not make sense and better to get a better usb server with already presumably sgd8k+ T+ already bought to have this reclocking in the first place ?

 

 

 

[richard_crl032]

Hi,

 

Just listened to the allo's usb bridge signature via the gaia and T+ and compared the Antipodes directly via the T+  with various same tracks on both. 

 

Without the gaia for both allo's and Antipodes to the T+ that I am very familiar with, it was like subjectively 60-70% for the allo's if Antipodes is at 90% ....

 

With the gaia for allo's, it gets to 75-80% of the Antipodes which is quite impressive and nice as a backup server since I have the gaia but it also tells me just how nice the Antipodes is .. crisp, clear and extended in comparison.

 

Again ymmv and this helps further ... 4am and really to shower and sleep but no worry of listener fatigue to have messed up the subjective comparison.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

[sig8]

I got my Gaia today, came in before T+. I have it connected to my Holo Spring DAC, but it is not seeing the DAC or DAC is not seeing it. I see lights on Gaia change when input changes from PCM to DSD, and when the sample rate changes from HQPlayer, but my Holo does not have any display as if it is not seeing anything coming to it. I have the right input I2s selected on Holo. Anything I am missing here? I powered my Holo couple of times, but nothing. 

 

I am using the same I2s cable which I was using on the SU-1.

[Blake]

@sig8

 

My first thought is, it could be a pin-out issue.  I think I2S for the Holo Spring is HDMI, and not RJ45, but I could be wrong.  Does the Spring have user configurable pin-outs?

 

Pin-out info for the Gaia is in the owner's manual:

 

 https://3beb070f-8ca8-434d-b6b3-76002990adfa.filesusr.com/ugd/4b933e_5bbf9137820542c6bc30d47b697ef750.pdf

 

Did you trying using any other connection type between the Gaia and your Spring DAC?  That might help to isolate the potential issue.

 

 

[sig8]

Blake, what I know is that Holo uses PS Audio configuration (if there is such thing), which is HDMI, I guess.

 

It is connecting now, but when I played a redbook up sampled to 352.8 via HQP. The sound coming from the speakers is distorted/screechy, like when you play a damaged speaker. What could be the reason?

 

I see the correct displays on Gaia and on Holo DAC. It is showing PCM 352.8, and after turning off my amp, I see it change to DSD 512 for a DSD 64 track upsampled in HQP. I am afraid to turn the amp ON before knowing the reason. Don't want to blow a speaker or amp or whatever.

[Abyss Man]

Hi sig,

its a pin out issue. (Binary) Play with it till u get clean sound. Just in case do a left right channel check after configuration. The channels can be reversed but still sound clean, if that’s the case, you need to configure till it’s ok. 

 

 

[sig8]

Well I gathered some courage and played a DSD track, it is playing but there is a constant static in the background. Something is going on.

[sig8]

4 minutes ago, Abyss Man said:

Hi sig,

its a pin out issue. (Binary) Play with it till u get clean sound. Just in case do a left right channel check after configuration. The channels can be reversed but still sound clean, if that’s the case, you need to configure till it’s ok. 

 

 

Please explain how to fix this, sorry have no clue about this. I have few other HDMI cables if that helps. Thanks.

[Abyss Man]

46 minutes ago, sig8 said:

Please explain how to fix this, sorry have no clue about this. I have few other HDMI cables if that helps. Thanks.

Sig,

This is the setup when you are using the TP, but since yours is a Holo DAC, please refer to the DAC manual and configure accordingly. Hope this helps.

[sig8]

Got an email from Alvin and he said there is a mismatch between Holo and Gaia I2s, so I connected a cheap coax, and it works, but limited to 192k and DSD64 with this setup.

 

I would not try to comment or compare this with my SU-1 setup because it is not apples to apples at this point.

 

Thanks for your help. Waiting for T+. Another few days.

[sig8]

I have never used clocks or clock cables for that matter. Any suggestions on which cable to get for connecting T+ and Gaia clocks.

[richard_crl032]

On 8/3/2020 at 2:26 AM, R1200CL said:

My understanding is you’re override the Gaia clock with the TP+ one.

 

I suppose removing the clock will change the result ?

Or maybe i2s requires the DAC clock. 

 

Conclusion is based on AES/EBU from FM radio and usb in from the Allo Usb bridge.

USB from server wasn’t any benefit. (Maybe cause USB is already very good). 
 

Also if you’re overriding the clock, one should think Iris would do the job almost as good 😀
 

 

Hi sig8,

 

Yes indeed  .. I expect Iris or Hermes does just as well but I have seen both and only Hermes is closer in power treatment to the Gaia.

 

Whether it makes a difference in one's system need to be tested but I would at the least err on Hermes if not the Gaia after the $ spent on the Tplus.

 

On the usb, the allo digione signature improved via the Gaia but not so much on the Antipodes EX which I went back to direct connection to thr Tplus ... my take is that while the usb input of Tplus may be excellent, it is the quality of usb source that determine if there is any improvement via the Gaia with conversion to i2s output/input  .. benefits of single synced clock is not applicable here.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

34 minutes ago, sig8 said:

Got an email from Alvin and he said there is a mismatch between Holo and Gaia I2s, so I connected a cheap coax, and it works, but limited to 192k and DSD64 with this setup.

 

I would not try to comment or compare this with my SU-1 setup because it is not apples to apples at this point.

 

Thanks for your help. Waiting for T+. Another few days.

 

Hi sig8,

 

Congras !

 

I believe you will love the Gaia with the Tplus 🥳🥳

 

Do keep us inform especially in comparison with the Holo dac .. hope for more indication that Tplus is the right choice.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

20 minutes ago, sig8 said:

I have never used clocks or clock cables for that matter. Any suggestions on which cable to get for connecting T+ and Gaia clocks.

 

Hi sig8,

 

I am using the 1m factory terminated canare D5.5UDC01E from Japan at great price of usd20 ... they replaced more expensive and well reviewed Apogee Wyde Eye:

 

https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/products/detail/item/239127/

 

Should you require to daisy chain more than one component as in my case of Gaia and Avator, you need some good quality T adaptor and 75ohm load in the last component .. details below:

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/old-king-of-r2r-dac-is-dead-denafrips-terminator-plus-terminator-arrives.936310/page-7

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[Abyss Man]

9 hours ago, sig8 said:

I have never used clocks or clock cables for that matter. Any suggestions on which cable to get for connecting T+ and Gaia clocks.

https://audiobacon.net/2018/08/11/the-audiophiles-short-list-the-best-digital-coaxial-cables/

 

Hi Sig,

This might help I hope. Happy reading.

 

U will need 2 x 75ohms cables. Try to keep them short. If you don't mind adapters then you can buy RCA terminated cables, get some good adapters. I personally don't use RCA to BNC adapters.

 

Sig, u might want to have a look see here as well. There is post by @Blake regarding BNC cable and he pretty much sums it up well. 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/denafrips-product-owners-please-fall-in.30981/

 

Have a great day ahead and do let us know how the Holo and Gaia team up even though they are not mated as best as they should be. Thank you sir.

[bernardl]

Has someone compared the Gaia to a Mutec MC-3+USB with external high end clock (such as the Cybershaft OP21A-D)?

 

Thank you.

 

Cheers,

Bernard

[Blake]

@bernardl

 

You may want to check out the Denafrips Terminator Plus review on 6Moons as he does experiment with Gaia, and a different D/D converter (but not MC-3+) and he also mentions the Mutec REF10.

 

[R1200CL]

 

[bernardl]

7 hours ago, Blake said:

@bernardl

 

You may want to check out the Denafrips Terminator Plus review on 6Moons as he does experiment with Gaia, and a different D/D converter (but not MC-3+) and he also mentions the Mutec REF10.

 

thanks.

 

cheers,

bernard

[orosie]

On 5/11/2020 at 7:58 AM, giordy60 said:

technically even the iris is not bad at all .....😉

Damn strait!!  I love mine...and I don't even have my Terminator Plus yet (this Tuesday!).  The Iris works amazing at converting USB to AES for my Auralic Vega G1 right now...as the Vega G1 does not have an I2S input, but as soon as the T+ comes, the clock cables go on, and I2S starts flowing from the Iris to the T+.

[richard_crl032]

1 hour ago, orosie said:

Damn strait!!  I love mine...and I don't even have my Terminator Plus yet (this Tuesday!).  The Iris works amazing at converting USB to AES for my Auralic Vega G1 right now...as the Vega G1 does not have an I2S input, but as soon as the T+ comes, the clock cables go on, and I2S starts flowing from the Iris to the T+.

 

Hi orosie,

 

Terminator Plus +2

Single synced clock +1

 

Life will not be the same ....

 

Cheers.

 

Richard