New D/D Converters from Denafrips

[Blake]

There have been some reports circulating over the last several months that Denafrips was developing a range of D/D converters.  Two of those models released this week, with a third model to follow shortly.  

 

The entry level model is the Iris.  The middle child, premium version, has not yet been released.  The flagship version is the Gaia.

 

Iris:

 

https://www.denafrips.com/iris

 

Gaia:

 

https://www.denafrips.com/gaia

 

6Moons is currently working on a review of the Iris and Gaia. The review is still in the "Preview" stage:

 

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/denafrips5/

 

I have been in communication with the worldwide distributor for Denafrips, Alvin Chee of Vinshine Audio, about the new D/D range.  Alvin is using the Gaia with his Denafrips Terminator and he reports a big improvement with the Gaia in the chain.      

 

I am currently running usb in to my Denafrips Terminator, but I would like to use the i2s input so I decided to go ahead and roll the dice and put in my order for the Gaia.  Will report back when it arrives.

 

 

[giordy60]

technically even the iris is not bad at all .....😉

[skipspence]

Since they didn't give I2S support to Ares II DAC, it doesn't make sense to upgrade Ares II by adding Iris, which is sad☹️... One fair question now: what the Iris are for? Poorman's upgrade to Terminator?

 

[roberto2]

On 5/11/2020 at 8:07 PM, skipspence said:

Since they didn't give I2S support to Ares II DAC, it doesn't make sense to upgrade Ares II by adding Iris, which is sad☹️... One fair question now: what the Iris are for? Poorman's upgrade to Terminator?

 

Why? The Ares II has coax input ! I'm sure the Iris is an upgrade to the Ares II

And Pontus and Venus have i2s inputs...

[skipspence]

Coax in Iris supports only PCM up to 192 Khz or DSD64 DoP... Ares II can support up to 1,5 Mhz PCM and DSD1024 Native directly from SW like HQPlayer. That was my point since I have Ares. If it's OK with you, then - no problem.

 

[JoeWhip]

Why not have a USB out?

[giordy60]

15 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

Why not have a USB out?

 

input yes

 

 

[ducatirider]

being all digital do you think there's any sound difference between these and a audiobyte hydra z for example.  i'm looking for a usb to aes converter for a bricasti m1 se.

I'm interested to know whether syncronizing with a master clock makes any difference as well.

[Ben-M]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:51 AM, ducatirider said:

being all digital do you think there's any sound difference between these and a audiobyte hydra z for example.  i'm looking for a usb to aes converter for a bricasti m1 se.

I'm interested to know whether syncronizing with a master clock makes any difference as well.

Why not go for an old Berkeley Alpha USB? I haven't compared it to any of the modern DDCs, but as far as I ever heard, it's one of the top USB->AES convertors out there. Since you're not trying to get DSD or crazy high-rate PCM, then the Berkeley Alpha USB might be the ticket for you. 

 

I'm not sure about the master clock, I'm starting to explore the same path, but it's very limiting and you're probably looking at a clock that's more than your DAC...

[The Computer Audiophile]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:06 AM, JoeWhip said:

Why not have a USB out?

Because it’s really dang hard to do right and requires a ton of support due to all the variables in the wild. Ask @vortecjr. 

 

 

 

On 5/14/2020 at 3:51 PM, ducatirider said:

being all digital do you think there's any sound difference between these and a audiobyte hydra z for example.  i'm looking for a usb to aes converter for a bricasti m1 se.

I'm interested to know whether syncronizing with a master clock makes any difference as well.

The Alpha USB is still the top DDC in my opinion, but it has to be put into the right system due to its limitations. For just USB to AES its the way to go. 

[Ben-M]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:08 AM, Blake said:

I am currently running usb in to my Denafrips Terminator, but I would like to use the i2s input so I decided to go ahead and roll the dice and put in my order for the Gaia.  Will report back when it arrives.

Any updates on the Western Front? 

 

I've got my eye on a Gaia for the DSD512 i2s output too, but I'm really wondering where to get a clock that covers these frequencies as well as the more common 10MHz one, and like 8 outputs...

[Blake]

26 minutes ago, Ben-M said:

Any updates on the Western Front? 

 

I've got my eye on a Gaia for the DSD512 i2s output too, but I'm really wondering where to get a clock that covers these frequencies as well as the more common 10MHz one, and like 8 outputs...

 

I ordered it on May 10th.  Alvin thought it would ship by the end of May, but they had a small delay caused by the chassis supplier.  He thinks my Gaia will ship out in about 10 days.

 

In the meantime since we have no Denafrips in house so far and following on the comments about the Berkeley Alpha, I will say I loved mine and within the limitations it is likely still one of the best you can buy regardless of price (for example, Berkeley still sell this Alpha, no need to update it).  AES/EBU out was the best solution in my use.  I would still have mine but for my change in DAC where I want to use my DAC's i2s input (via my Sablon 2020 rj45 ethernet cable).

 

To bide our time until we see some Denafrips action, for those interested in the Berkeley, here is a link to Elberoth's classic USB converter shootout which most here may already be familiar with, but just in case you are not, here it is.  My tiny (pathetic) contribution was a small 4 unit shootout at post #198:

 

 

 

[Abyss Man]

Blake,

U are in for treat. I just got a demo unit from Alvin and it’s running in. The OCXO has not really started to cook yet and already the music is bloody awesome. Detail retrieval, stereo imaging, instrument placement, soundstage, oh and did I mention the holographics? That one is going to blow ur head. It’s so 3-D, and I’m a headphone user.

 

i could go on and on but I will it for later when the ocxo stabilises. Good call on getting it. 

[Abyss Man]

I bought the unit guys, I’m weak.LOL. 

[giordy60]

19 hours ago, Abyss Man said:

I bought the unit guys, I’m weak.LOL. 

 

what did you take ?
and on which dac do you use it?

[Abyss Man]

Using the Gaia with the Termy.

[giordy60]

21 minutes ago, Abyss Man said:

Utilizzo di Gaia con Termy.

 

👏👍

[ggking7]

All 3 recommendations for the Berkeley here have specifically mentioned AES.  Is its SPDIF as highly recommended?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, ggking7 said:

All 3 recommendations for the Berkeley here have specifically mentioned AES.  Is its SPDIF as highly recommended?

Yes. It’s on BNC and that’s a good thing. 

[57gold]

Why isn't the stuff in the D to D converter engineered into a DAC? 

 

Using Berkeley as an example, seems to me that a $5K+ DAC should handle in incoming signal without needing conversion with a $2K box and additional cables.  Why does the clocking mechanism in the DAC not do the job the an external reclocker does?  Do the designers of DACs "forget" as step and need a fix for their products?  

 

Understood the utility of a D to D converter when I hooked a computer to a Wadia 861, it had no USB in and the Mac had no SPDIF out.  Wavelength and then an Audiophilleo2 did that job nicely.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

27 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Why isn't the stuff in the D to D converter engineered into a DAC? 

 

Using Berkeley as an example, seems to me that a $5K+ DAC should handle in incoming signal without needing conversion with a $2K box and additional cables.  Why does the clocking mechanism in the DAC not do the job the an external reclocker does?  Do the designers of DACs "forget" as step and need a fix for their products?  

 

Understood the utility of a D to D converter when I hooked a computer to a Wadia 861, it had no USB in and the Mac had no SPDIF out.  Wavelength and then an Audiophilleo2 did that job nicely.

 

Great question. 
 

Berkeley’s decision is all about isolating noise. They believe there’s no better way to do it than in a separate box. 
 

The inside isolation techniques in the Alpha USB are pretty cool and clever. 
 

It’s just a philosophy that Berkeley and some other manufacturers believe in. i supposed they could build a box within the DAC but then you’d be purchasing that box again if you upgraded because it’s built in. 
 

Fortunately there are a million options on the market. 

[barrows]

On 6/9/2020 at 6:57 AM, 57gold said:

Why isn't the stuff in the D to D converter engineered into a DAC? 

 

Using Berkeley as an example, seems to me that a $5K+ DAC should handle in incoming signal without needing conversion with a $2K box and additional cables.  Why does the clocking mechanism in the DAC not do the job the an external reclocker does?  Do the designers of DACs "forget" as step and need a fix for their products?  

 

Understood the utility of a D to D converter when I hooked a computer to a Wadia 861, it had no USB in and the Mac had no SPDIF out.  Wavelength and then an Audiophilleo2 did that job nicely.

 

There are actually plenty of DACs which will not benefit from a converter like this, unless one prefers the sound of higher jitter.  Just use a good USB source direct into the DAC's USB input, and just do not purchase a DAC which does not have a well implemented USB input, there really is no excuse these days for a DAC to have a poor USB input, the details of getting it "right" are now pretty well understood by most sharp digital engineers.

Now, if one has a "legacy" DAC which they love, the might benefit form  converter like this.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

29 minutes ago, barrows said:

There are actually plenty of DACs which will not benefit from a converter like this, unless one prefers the sound of higher jitter.  Just use a good USB source direct into the DAC's USB input, and just do not purchase a DAC which does not have a well implemented USB input, there really is no excuse these days for a DAC to have a poor USB input, the details of getting it "right" are now pretty well understood by most sharp digital engineers.

Now, if one has a "legacy" DAC which they love, the might benefit form  converter like this.

So for those with a direct USB connection from server to DAC adding an opticalRendu would serve no purpose?

 

For those streaming, a long copper Ethernet cable from router to server would also be okay providing there was subsequently a good direct USB connection from server to DAC.

 

The above is what I do now

[57gold]

11 hours ago, barrows said:

There are actually plenty of DACs which will not benefit from a converter like this, unless one prefers the sound of higher jitter.  Just use a good USB source direct into the DAC's USB input, and just do not purchase a DAC which does not have a well implemented USB input, there really is no excuse these days for a DAC to have a poor USB input, the details of getting it "right" are now pretty well understood by most sharp digital engineers.

Now, if one has a "legacy" DAC which they love, the might benefit form  converter like this.

 

With respect to DAC design, I was hoping that this was the case, that some folks figured it out and particularly those producing $2K+ DACs.  

 

But you post above also suggests that one needs to use a good USB source...which for this piker, who doesn't understand what most of the people posting on this forum about things like convolution, end points, boxes called Pis, USB reclockers for $3K...a Mac Mini USB out, is that a USB source?  Or is this where some of the gadget boxes come in?

[barrows]

16 minutes ago, 57gold said:

 

With respect to DAC design, I was hoping that this was the case, that some folks figured it out and particularly those producing $2K+ DACs.  

 

But you post above also suggests that one needs to use a good USB source...which for this piker, who doesn't understand what most of the people posting on this forum about things like convolution, end points, boxes called Pis, USB reclockers for $3K...a Mac Mini USB out, is that a USB source?  Or is this where some of the gadget boxes come in?

I am not in favor of add on gadgets personally.  i prefer a good, designed for high end audio, USB source.  One can hardly expect a consumer grade commercial computer designed for general computer purposes (master of none) to be a good high end  audio source.  One is better off with something designed for the task at hand (delivering perfect USB audio signal integrity, with ultra low noise), not something designed for general computing purposes.