New D/D Converters from Denafrips

[Abyss Man]

I leave the LED on in my TP. I tried on and off, in all honesty couldn’t tell any difference. Lol. I just leave it on which is in phase. 

[seeteeyou]

On 8/1/2020 at 12:16 PM, richard_crl032 said:

Hi seeteeyou 

 

Yes indeed, this is the one that I am using in my sharing and had posted the cable specification of published ofc copper albiet no further details and if believable.

 

Hi Richard

 

While these flagship Ethernet cables might seem to be "a little bit" too much for an I2S connection

 

https://jcat.eu/product/signature-lan-cable/

https://www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?22041570582815

https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Headphone/M.1604374595.A.FCB.html

https://artsexcellence.com/crystalnetwork-absolute-dream.html

https://www.synergisticresearch.com/cables/galileo-sx/galileo-sx-digital/galileo-sx-ethernet/

https://shunyata.com/products/digital-cables/omega-series-digital-cables/omega-ethernet-new/

 

Are you planning to try the latest Furutech LAN-8 NCF by any chance?

 

http://www.furutech.com/2020/10/05/20075/

http://www.furutech.com/ja/2020/10/02/20066/

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?13173-Furutech推出最高規格網路線-Furutech-LAN-8-NCF-網路線

Quote

Main conductor: 24 AWG Silver plated α (Alpha) OCC conductor
Insulation: Special Foamed PE OD.: 1.35±0.05mm, 4 Twisted Pairs
Blue/White; Orange/White; Green/White; Brown/White
Shield 1: AL foil Conductive layer to the outside
Shield 2: AL foil Double-sided conductive
Shield 3: α (Alpha) Pure copper wire (16/10/0.10) braiding layer
Jacket: UL/CL3 approved flammability grade; RoHS Compliant Flexible PVC (Black)
Sleeve: High quality nylon yarn braided (Purple/Black)

 

The shortest length available should be 0.6m (under 15,000 yen) and so far it's only available in Japan and Taiwan etc.

 

https://joshinweb.jp/av/38236/4580370444070.html

https://shop.oyaide.com/products/furutech_lan-8_ncf.html

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/en/special/order/confirm/https%3A%2F%2Fitem.rakuten.co.jp%2Fjism%2F4580370444070-31-38236-n%2F/N_1/

 

Just wondering if a decent Ethernet cable were able to further improve the performance of Gaia.

 

---

 

On 9/1/2020 at 8:38 AM, richard_crl032 said:

I am using the 1m factory terminated canare D5.5UDC01E from Japan at great price of usd20 ... they replaced more expensive and well reviewed Apogee Wyde Eye:

 

https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/products/detail/item/239127/

 

I found that Canare actually made an even better model L-8CUHD with impressive specs, resistance / attenuation of L-5.5CUHD looked quite good already while L-8CUHD seemed to be superior

 

http://www.canare.co.jp/products/cables/index.php?tid=pr4_010_hd

 

L-5.5CUHD

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=247

 

L-8CUHD

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=256

 

Those numbers of L-8CUHD should be even better when compared to its predecessor L-8CHD

 

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=135

 

So far I was only able to find bulk wires in Japan

 

https://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/k-material/l-8cuhd-100.html

 

Though we could get 3-foot factory terminated (Laird L8CUHD-B-B-003) for US$32.5

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/l8cuhd-b-b-003/laird-l8cuhd-b-b-003-12g-sdi-4k-uhd-coax-bnc-male-to-male-cable-3-foot

http://www.lairddigitalcinema.com/Product.asp?baseItem=L8CUHD-B-B-003&cat=CABLES&subcat=VIDEOCAB&prodClass=VBNCBNC

 

Hopefully that's a good choice for those of us who are looking for nice clock cables.

[richard_crl032]

Hi See,

 

Thanks thanks ... din know about the Furutech ethernet cable. So far, I had only bought "reasonably" priced china ofc cat 8, meicord cat 6, stock antipode's and supra cat 8 in various connection required and not all in same connection. For example, the Supra Cat 8 is 25m for router to my main system via false ceiling but the meicord certainly did not sound obviously better or even better at all than the china ofc ones for my Avatar cdp to the TP. Admittedly though, I hardly play cd and even gaia was bought in attempt to improve aes_ebu output from my Bel Canto FM1 tuner and get into i2s via hdmi that is the pricest audio relevation one for me but it is also for the TP.

 

To spend more on ethernet cables like the acoustic revive LAN ones that is otw, they are for my antipodes CX+EX stack simply because the setup costs much more ... spending more 50, 100% or even more than equipment and technology bought does not make sense to me nor had I heard more significant difference as compared to change in equipment and technology.

 

Thanks again for the higher spec'd Canare clock cable that I did share somewhere before after reading from a HongKong user. However, I am not too much into effects of such clock cables for timing signal and not audio signal especially after trying the more expensive and widely praised apogee wyde eye one. Since I needed 3 to daisy chain the Avatar and gaia, I just have the cheaper Canare and not another 2 more Apogee.

 

Lastly, I am also looking forward to upgrade the Antipodes with some of the technological goodies from their latest flagship released 2 months ago and it will not be cheap 😅

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[themacster]

Finally, the Hermes is (nearly) here! Just after I've bought an Iris.

 

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/so/ebNNMykSd#/main

[Jazzman7]

@Blake Noted that you have experience with both an Iris and a Gaia and have used both together with a Chord Qutest.  I currently have a Chord Qutest in my main rig being fed via USB from a Roon Nucleus.  I'm considering inserting a D/D converter inbetween the Nucleus and Qutest.  Over at Audiogon you can see my rig here:  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8156

Trying to decide which of the Denafrips D/D converters is most appropriate to my use case.  Reaching out to you to get your take on the subject.  Thanks.

[Blake]

First, welcome to AS @Jazzman7

 

You have a very nice system.  I do have both the Iris and Gaia and used both with the Qutest.  The problem is, when I used Gaia + Qutest, that was in my speaker system.  Iris + Qutest has been in my headphone system which is in another room and as a result I haven't done any meaningful direct A/B testing with both in the speaker or headphone systems.  I will say, in each case, I found that the performance of the Qutest was improved as compared to USB direct and for me it was obvious and worth the money.  Your mileage may vary.  In both audio systems I go USB in to the Denafrips DDC's.

 

I intend to do some A/B comparisons in the near future.  The problem is, I've made a number of recent system changes and I am currently burning in a new DAC and usb cable that just arrived.  I would want to let the new stuff settle in and establish a base line before posting any A/B impressions.  I probably won't get around to doing any comparisons on the Iris-Gaia for the next week or possibly two.  Feel free to pm me if you want my input and don't see any updates here within that time frame. 

 

To complicate matters for you, Hermes is now in pre-order status, so you now have 3 options.  

 

 

[Jazzman7]

@Blake Thanks much for the prompt response.  Appreciated.  You and others have commented on just how transformative these D/D converters can be, and in your case in combination with the very DAC that sits in my main rig.  I typically take my time to ponder over decisions like these, so waiting a few more weeks is no big deal.   Have already decided that the Denafrips converters make more sense for me than the Innuos Phoenix, both from a price performance standpoint as well as from a flexibility standpoint. Just trying to decide which one, choosing between the Iris, Hermes and Gaia.  I also like the idea of freeing up my Qutest's USB port for use with the Melco.        

[Abyss Man]

Iris if used with a TP excels well cause you can clock it with the dual OCXO clocks in the TP. Hermes uses TCXO clocks to reclock and the Gaia uses dual OCXO clocks for clocking.

 

If money is not an issue I’d go with the Gaia. Hermes with its TCXO clocks should sound very good too, though I’ve not heard it yet. The Iris as an entry level DDC is a serious piece of gear and when used with the TP outperforms most DDC imho. 

 

As as for me, I went with the Gaia to team it with the TP, but that’s just me. I don’t like sleepless nights, having said this do enjoy your journey and happy listening. 

 

 

[roberto2]

I think that the Hermes uses a pair of OCXO clocks too, but not at the level of Gaia's.

[Koso]

2 hours ago, roberto2 said:

I think that the Hermes uses a pair of OCXO clocks too, but not at the level of Gaia's.

Exactly, two, but lower grade (still great though)

 

[Abyss Man]

Yes, I just confirmed that it was revised to OCXO.

[orosie]

As Abyss Man said, as good as the internal clock is in the Gaia, connecting it to the Terminator Plus's clock takes it to the next level.  I2S has never sounded so good! 

 

[Heckyman]

Hi, I have an Iris between iMac / Allo USBridge Sig. going into the Aqua La Voce S3 DAC. 
 

I was able to connect via i2s by rewiring a Cat 8 cable (the yellow solid core ones by LinkUp).

 

It sounds great, so good in fact that I pre-ordered a Hermes ;-)

[sig8]

Anyone using Denafrips TP or Gaia with Audiolinux?

[Cortes]

4 hours ago, orosie said:

As Abyss Man said, as good as the internal clock is in the Gaia, connecting it to the Terminator Plus's clock takes it to the next level.  I2S has never sounded so good! 

 

 

I struggle to understand the logic of this loop.  TP rules the clocks of the Gaia to improve the signal Gaia provides to TP. So what's the need of Gaia if TP can do better?. 

 

[orosie]

Interface conversion.

[Cortes]

24 minutes ago, orosie said:

Interface conversion.

 

Then some cheap Singxer can do the same.

[orosie]

So go buy one, then.

[Abyss Man]

The shorter the run of the signal the better it will sound. The Gaia on its own is very good, so it works for those who do not have a TP. As for those who do have a TP, the onboard clock takes a shorter route thereby reducing jitter. Gaia also has a much better power supply among other things.

[Abyss Man]

45 minutes ago, Cortes said:

 

Then some cheap Singxer can do the same.

Been there done that, nothing comes even remotely close to what the Gaia has to offer, but having said that, it’s a “free” expensive audio world.

[OldBigEars]

On 11/30/2020 at 3:50 PM, Jazzman7 said:

@Blake Noted that you have experience with both an Iris and a Gaia and have used both together with a Chord Qutest.  I currently have a Chord Qutest in my main rig being fed via USB from a Roon Nucleus.  I'm considering inserting a D/D converter inbetween the Nucleus and Qutest.  Over at Audiogon you can see my rig here:  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8156

Trying to decide which of the Denafrips D/D converters is most appropriate to my use case.  Reaching out to you to get your take on the subject.  Thanks.

 

I have a very similar set up and have been wondering the exact same question.  As you probably know, the Qutest designer has stated that the Optical input is its best - with the galvanized USB "almost as good" - whatever this means. Perhaps the Iris is all we need? I'll probably mull over this for a while and wait for the Hermes.  Looking forward to your report if you decide to go ahead with either Gaia or Iris.

[Jazzman7]

2 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

 

I have a very similar set up and have been wondering the exact same question.  As you probably know, the Qutest designer has stated that the Optical input is its best - with the galvanized USB "almost as good" - whatever this means. Perhaps the Iris is all we need? I'll probably mull over this for a while and wait for the Hermes.  Looking forward to your report if you decide to go ahead with either Gaia or Iris.

@OldBigEars Only issue with the optical input on the Qutest is that its ceiling is 96kHz.  Prior to acquiring the Nucleus a Node 2i was my principal source, and an AQ Vodka Toslink was my preferred input.  At the time I was only streaming Tidal and my own ripped redbook CDs, so 96kHz limit was all I needed (96kHz was all that was needed to support first unfold of MQA, and that's where things topped out at the time).  Year ago Qobuz became my preferred streaming service, and then a month ago began ripping SACDs, so now I very much require more bandwidth than the optical input allows.  As to Iris, Hermes or Gaia ... still cogitating ... at the moment still going back and forth in my head ... can make a case for any of them.

[Blake]

2 hours ago, Jazzman7 said:

Prior to acquiring the Nucleus a Node 2i was my principal source, and an AQ Vodka Toslink was my preferred input.  

 

For some additional detail, in my headphone system I have also been running the AQ Vodka Toslink from Iris to Qutest (Sablon 2020 USB to the Iris... yeah, the USB cable cost more than the Iris 😄).

 

In my speaker setup I was using Kimber D60 spdif from Gaia to Qutest (again with Sablon 2020 USB in to the Gaia). Qutest was then moved to my headphone system.

 

 

[OldBigEars]

5 hours ago, Jazzman7 said:

@OldBigEars Only issue with the optical input on the Qutest is that its ceiling is 96kHz.  Prior to acquiring the Nucleus a Node 2i was my principal source, and an AQ Vodka Toslink was my preferred input.  At the time I was only streaming Tidal and my own ripped redbook CDs, so 96kHz limit was all I needed (96kHz was all that was needed to support first unfold of MQA, and that's where things topped out at the time).  Year ago Qobuz became my preferred streaming service, and then a month ago began ripping SACDs, so now I very much require more bandwidth than the optical input allows.  As to Iris, Hermes or Gaia ... still cogitating ... at the moment still going back and forth in my head ... can make a case for any of them.

 

@jazzman Point about upsampling well understood.  Not an issue for me 'cause I use 96 or redbook almost all the time (Qobuz streaming). Very occasional 192 files, although the difference I truly cannot hear. For some reason, I thought Qutest allows up to 192 by Toslink but in any case this would be a minor consideration for me. I'll also be cogitating about this through the holiday season...meanwhile enjoying some fine jazz/blues/soul with straight USB feed (Curious Evolved).  

[Blake]

 

 

 

I found some time to do some A/B comparisons with the Gaia and Iris in my headphone system.  First off, for Qutest, I use Toslink per Rob Watts' recommendation in posts in another forum.   For my other DAC's (both Denafrips), I find I2S via HDMI to be my clear favorite in terms of the possible inputs.  I am running USB to the DDC's inputs.

 

As you can see in the first picture, the Gaia is a significantly larger and heavier unit as compared to Iris, something to consider if space is limited.

 

In terms of sonics, I find that both of the Denafrips DDC's provide an improvement in clarity, resolution, transparency and 3D holography for soundstage aspects.  I don't find they change tonality and there are no sonic trade-offs when the DDC's are inserted in the system.  In all cases, I found that inserting the DDC's in the chain is superior to USB direct (an admittedly small sample size of 3 DAC's).  But as I mentioned earlier in this thread, using my Berkeley Alpha USB and other quality DDC with other DAC's that have passed through my system over the years (Yggy A2, BiFrost, LH Labs, Bel Canto, Wadia, Blue Circle, etc. mostly going with AES-EBU input), I always preferred DDC's in the chain to USB direct.  YMMV.

 

Comparing Iris to Gaia, the Gaia simply enhances the aforementioned sonic aspects to a greater degree.   There is a significant price increase from Iris to Gaia.  Whether that extra money is worth it for the performance delta will be personal to each user.   I don't feel a pressing need to sell my Iris and upgrade to Hermes or Gaia, but Gaia is better.  Iris is killer for the money and I am very happy with the performance.