Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

[PYP]

12 minutes ago, Vincent des Champs said:

Roon wont be dumped, but UPnP will be available as an optional protocol to stream… BubbleUPnP/ mConnect as controlling SW.

 

Could Audirvana and JPLAY be used after the update?

[Vincent des Champs]

3 minutes ago, PYP said:

Could Audirvana be used after the update?

@Eelco Grimm can you elaborate on this?

[soupcon]

3 hours ago, Nicholas Dong said:

I am very disgusted with ROON. It is inconvenient to find music files in the hard drive, the sound quality is not worth mentioning, and it also charges high fees. If this update has the UPNP protocol, I will not use ROOn again.

I think you forgot the terrible service and support 😂

[mriguy]

2 hours ago, PYP said:

Could Audirvana and JPLAY be used after the update?

Audirvana on the MU-1 would be spectacular! Yes please!

[Nicholas Dong]

10小时前，soupcon说：

在更新中，对我来说最令人兴奋的事情是倾销Roon的前景

Is it ready to update?

[aangen]

I'd pick nearly nearly anything over Audirvana. Ewe. Ewe twice. Worst interface ever. And if you have an extensive DSD library, you are SOL. I tried tried and tried to work with it. Bought a Mac, I did all the things, it couldn't process my library due to all the DSD I have. It would just grind to a halt.  I'll stick to Roon. MMMMMMMmmmmmmm  I only had to pay them once. Fun.

[stefano_mbp]

@aangen… what’s your trouble with DSD in Audirvana?

[PYP]

8 hours ago, aangen said:

I'd pick nearly nearly anything over Audirvana. Ewe. Ewe twice. Worst interface ever. And if you have an extensive DSD library, you are SOL. I tried tried and tried to work with it. Bought a Mac, I did all the things, it couldn't process my library due to all the DSD I have. It would just grind to a halt.  I'll stick to Roon. MMMMMMMmmmmmmm  I only had to pay them once. Fun.

interesting.  never used it.  a friend does but perhaps for the various features for tweaking settings to match his DDC and DAC.   Personally, I like Roon (with Qobuz) but am curious to compare with other software.  

[aangen]

23 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

what’s your trouble with DSD in Audirvana?

As I stated clearly above

1. It can't process my library due to the large number of DSD files I have. It reads the non DSD files just fine.

2. The Interface. Who was that made for? Not me.

[Marcin_gps]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:10 PM, PYP said:

Could Audirvana and JPLAY be used after the update?

JPLAY iOS will be possible once Grimm is ready with UPnP. I'm in touch with Grimm. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin
 

[PYP]

37 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

JPLAY iOS will be possible once Grimm is ready with UPnP. I'm in touch with Grimm. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin
 

Thank you.  In general, is there any difference in sound using an iMac vs. iPhone?  

[stevebythebay]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:06 PM, Evo1668 said:

After well over six months of having the Grimm, the sonics have changed.  It still makes me smile each day, hearing new things, phrasing, dynamics etc.. within familiar tracks.  More than six months on and It sonically never ceases to surprise me in a good way I might add.

 

Now for those that may have a tendency to scratch that itch with regards to their audio equipment purchases - I have not really had that itch .  My network has remained the same, I already was using an Uptone switch with femto clock before I brought the MU1 and was just not in the mood to start tinkering there. I may still yet connect a standard switch and listen.  Power Cables I've tried replacing the stock Grimm one with some PS Audio mains cables - yuk! that didn't last long the stock Grimm cable remained.  I have also tried plugging the MU1 into a PS Audio PP Premier conditioner, instead of straight into the wall socket.  I don't know, but each time there is a certain magic which is lost going through the Power Plant, the music becomes how can I put it? sterile.  But hang on.....  One area I did find a noticeable improvement of unveiling further and that sonic magic remaining, was plugging the MU1 into an old BT isolation transformer I had lying around - I think you can pick these beasts up directly from BT for £30 - £50 these things are heavy but the footprint is quite small around 6 inch cube (they are old mains isolation equipment,  that were once used in their telecoms exchanges.)

 

The other area I have succumbed to the itch is around footers that the MU1 sits on.  I have tried Stillpoints, HRS footers, finite elemente ceraballs - and whilst the sound definitely changed/improved? each time that sonic magic was lost.  Then one day when I was moving the MU1, I noticed that the actual feet on the MU1 have a certain tiny amount of 'give' to them acting like a micro form of suspension for the chassis.  If you press on the corner of the MU1 whilst looking at the base you can indeed see a tiny amount of movement.  At first I thought it was just a very soft rubber on the base of the feet, but if you look face on at the foot itself, you will see the rubber insert is not completely flat, but is raised in the middle across 2/3rds the foot length and there is a definite spring action beneath the centre section of the foot.

 

That got me thinking again (dangerous I know) as I had heard in the past about Townshend Isolation Pods, but I never thought they were something that would/could make a difference under digital equipment, analogue maybe, but never digital.  So to cut a long story short, I brought a set of 4 of the 'AA' size pods ( they are sized according to the weight of the equipment you place on them).  In effect your equipment floats on its own suspension.  Heres a link to how they work http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-equipment-vibration-isolation/seismic-isolation-pods/  Now don't take my word for it, but the difference they make is not subtle - you keep all the Grimm sonic magic and some - the music plays and sounds louder, but when you go out of the room it sounds quiet in comparison, there is even more dynamics and with an effortless ease you hear even further into the mix.  And don't get me started on what happens to the bass......but if any MU1 owners do try these Townshend Isolation pods under the MU1, you will be very pleasantly surprised. 

 

One caveat - my music - my system - my room - my ears.  Your results may be different, but I doubt it.

What rack is your equipment resting on?

[stevebythebay]

On 3/17/2023 at 4:32 AM, TheAttorney said:

 

When I first read this, I made the assumption that your "24/7" means that you don't regularly put your MU1 into standby, which means that the operating system and roon don't get regularly rebooted, which means that any s/w-related cobwebs don't get cleared away (e.g. gradual memory leakage). I don't know for sure if there are any s/w cobwebs that impact SQ, but some people have claimed so in the past.

 

Primarily for energy conservation reasons, both my MU1 and DAVE are put into standby every night, so any possible s/w cobwebs get regularly cleared out. I therefore wasn't sure if a full power down would make a difference, but last night I gave it a try, as follows:

 

System: Audience TSSOX (capacitor-based passive mains conditioner) feeding both MU1 and DAVE, to headphones. Currently no special grounding solutions used.

 

Normal routine: MU1 and DAVE on standby overnight > Activated early afternoon > Serious listening late evening (8-ish hours later).

 

Test routine: In late morning, power down the conditioner for several minutes (didn't time it, but guess around 15 mins). Then back to standby and normal routine.

 

Result: Well, I wasn't expecting much, but the sound did seem a bit "richer". I first noticed more bass, then a slightly more full-bodied presentation without any loss of detail.  As if some digital glare had been removed that I didn't know I had. Not night-and-day, but nice.

 

It could have been placebo and it's not possible to do a quick A/B/A test to confirm, So it's not definitive by any means. But based on this result, I think this idea does merit further investigation. In particular...

 

How long to shut down? (Some audiophiles claim long power downs result in extra long warm up times, or a re-burnin).

How frequently should this be done before SQ degrades again? Every day/week/month? Frequent power cycles are generally not good for long-term reliability.

 

I suspect that powering down everything including the conditioner (stuffed full of capacitors) would have exaggerated any effect of this phenomenon. Whatever, I don't recall my system ever sounding better than it did last night, so I'll repeat the test after a week or so.

 

I’m inclined to favor your view that it’s memory leak or cache bloating of some sort.  I’ve made it a habit to restart my Roon Nucleus Plus and dCS Vivaldi stack once a month for just such potential issues.  After all these are running some operating code.  Does help from time to time.

[PYP]

31 minutes ago, stevebythebay said:

I’m inclined to favor your view that it’s memory leak or cache bloating of some sort.  I’ve made it a habit to restart my Roon Nucleus Plus and dCS Vivaldi stack once a month for just such potential issues.  After all these are running some operating code.  Does help from time to time.

I used to have this issue with both my DAC and the Grimm, but not lately.  @TheAttorney have you observed any changes over time.  Could this be a break-in issue that goes away after a long period of time?  I was puzzled by the cobwebs when they occurred and now I'm puzzled by why they don't seem to be there.  Not complaining....

[aangen]

Mine is never off. After a week or so it sometimes needs a restart. 
I am excited with the option to stream music outside of Roon.

[stevebythebay]

4 minutes ago, aangen said:

Mine is never off. After a week or so it sometimes needs a restart. 
I am excited with the option to stream music outside of Roon.

Unless I'm going out of town for weeks, my gear, other than the amps, are always on.  It's the recycling of anything running code, that I find helpful.  

 

I did finally relent, at the recommendation of my dealer, to give the MU1 a belatedly try in my system.  It has been a revelation.  The first thing that I happened to discover, even before playing anything from my local library, was that internet radio stations, that send flac 44k, such as Klasu Pro out of Helsinki or Radio Paradise down in southern CA, sounded at least as good as when I played them from my dCS Upsampler using its Mosaic app.  The Roon Nucleus was not nearly as nice.  Same with Qobuz.  Finally, testing my own library of redbook and hi res showed just how wonderful the MU1 can be.  

 

So, I'm awaiting a new MU1 via my dealer.  I gather these are not stocked locally but come in from the Veldhoven.  Moving from an Ethernet connected Roon server to AES/EBU was initially a bit of confusion as the dCS Upsampler doesn't automatically detect the source change.  And given I found the dCS Upsampler with DAC a better sonic result than enabling upsampling via the MU1, it also means that anything I send from the MU1 which is PCM is taken to DXD level (352/384kbps).  DSD is simply passed through to the DAC unchanged.  There's a clear synergy in the dCS chain that just makes it a better sonic result.  Might be that is due to the fact that the MU1, as source using a single AES, and therefore driving clocking that causes this.  With the Roon Nucleus using the network into the dCS environment clocking is immaterial.  But I could be wrong about all of this and it's more about the filtering scheme between the Upsampler and DAC that's key.

 

No matter.  The MU1 is the last piece of the puzzle for my music playback chain -- at least for now.  It's just flat out more musical, relaxed and delivers what many describe as PRaT - Pace, Rhythm, and Timing.  With a wider and deeper soundstage, truer separation of instruments and singers and staging, more clarity and tonal accuracy, and sonic contrasts and layering.  All of this while allowing for far less fatiguing listening, even at higher sonic output into my listening room that ever.  Quite a feat!

[TheAttorney]

4 hours ago, PYP said:

  @TheAttorney have you observed any changes over time.  Could this be a break-in issue that goes away after a long period of time?  I was puzzled by the cobwebs when they occurred and now I'm puzzled by why they don't seem to be there.  Not complaining....

The short answer is that I don't know 🙂.

 

The longer answer is that there are many variables that can skew the result in any long term comparison. For example...

If I start my listening session with a poor recording or two, then I can become more critical and less satisfied with the system, and that more critical feeling can remain for the rest of the evening, even after putting on a good recording, or even over the following days. Let's call this "Mind Trick Z". This works differently the other way round, where I'm inclined to blame the poor recording, not the system.

 

Now complicate this with Roon's release variability, which impacts MU1 much less than other systems, but nevertheless I do sometimes feel a subtle impact. The very last Roon release seemed a step down from the rather good previous two releases. But was this due to Mind Trick Z (or several other mind tricks), or was it real? I wasn't able to find out because Roon Restore failed without good explanation, so I was unable to return to my last back-up (this is the first time I've ever tried Roon Restore, so it's a bit concerning if it's more than an isolated occurrence, but that's another story).

 

Now complicate the above with warm-up times. I always put both Dave and MU1 in standby overnight for energy conservation reasons. Both then require a warm-up period. I don't have the patience to fully test this out, but anecdotally over time, I've convinced myself that 8+ hours warm-up gives consistently good results. But up the that point, the warm-up period is inconsistent. Dave may sound fine after an hour, but then worse at 4 hours. Or is this Mind Trick Z, or several other mind tricks?

 

Putting all that (and many more examples) together, I could never state that there's been system burn-in, warm-up, or cobweb affect over 6 months. I do have suspicions based on specific instances, and I can be open minded on the possibilities, but I can't be sure. It's a minefield out there and we just have to navigate it as best we can. Which makes this hobby endlessly fascinating and sometimes infuriating.

 

PS. I don't want to give the impression that I lose sleep over such things. Most of the time, I don't worry about it and just enjoy listening to music 🙂.

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

21 hours ago, PYP said:

Thank you.  In general, is there any difference in sound using an iMac vs. iPhone?  

 

I can hear a slight difference and prefer the Mac. But it's a remote app we're talking about. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin
 

[PYP]

4 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

 

PS. I don't want to give the impression that I lose sleep over such things. Most of the time, I don't worry about it and just enjoy listening to music 🙂.

Same here.  That is the strength of the MU1.  Set it up, pick your preferences for settings and listen to music all the time.  And for those who have tried other solutions, I'm assuming the reliability of the MU1 is one attribute that is never forgotten.  

[Evo1668]

19 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

What rack is your equipment resting on?

The rack is a FE Signature Pagoda 

[stevebythebay]

5 minutes ago, Evo1668 said:

The rack is a FE Signature Pagoda 

It’s always interesting to discover products that you’d not think would have a meaningful impact on our systems performance.  My dealer, about a year ago offered a number of after market footers to test.  I’d heard reports of testing these under my dCS DAC.  So, I took him up on his offer.  Included were candidates from Wilson Audio and others.  Few made an appreciable difference.  Thought it might be due to my HRS rack.  But when I contacted Michael Latvia, their chief engineer, he encouraged me to try a set of the HRS Vortex.  They’d been testing these with an assortment of digital and analog gear and indicated my DAC had been among them, and I’d find a notable improvement.  Sure enough they did.  
 

So, I’m not terribly surprised with your experience with the Townshend.

[further]

Michael Lavorgna posted his enthusiastic review of the MU1 today, https://twitteringmachines.com/review-grimm-audio-mu1-music-player/ .   

[PYP]

2 hours ago, further said:

Michael Lavorgna posted his enthusiastic review of the MU1 today, https://twitteringmachines.com/review-grimm-audio-mu1-music-player/ .   

Thanks.  Now I have some new (to me) music to listen to.

 

I appreciated that (in addition to musical references) he mentions the upsampling options.  Reading about how some folks have tried the MU1 with less than impressive results, I came to the conclusion that they may not have tried the three settings to determine best fit with their DAC.  This is crucial.  

 

Completely agree with his preferred setting for the Tambaqui and his description of the results (bolding added):

 

"While we’re moving away from music, let’s talk about upsampling. With the Mola Mola Tambaqui, I preferred this system’s sound with the MU1’s 4fs (4x the fundamental sample rate) upsampling option engaged. So CD-quality, 44.1kHz data, which is most of the music I listen to, is upsampled to 176.4kHz. Doing so made music seem a bit more refined, a tad more fluid, and a touch richer. In the grand scheme of things, these changes were subtle but welcome. For the totaldac d1-unity, I preferred this system’s sound with the MU1’s 2fs upsampling option employed, where CD-quality data was upsampled to 88.2kHz, offering similar results as the 4fs setting with the Tambaqui. "

[stevebythebay]

6 hours ago, further said:

Michael Lavorgna posted his enthusiastic review of the MU1 today, https://twitteringmachines.com/review-grimm-audio-mu1-music-player/ .   

Seems the MU1 has made quite an impression on Michael.  I've had my MU1 home for just under a week and it's simply improved over time, as many electronics, cables, etc. do.  I've been informed a good target is 200 hours, so I'm almost there.  Also, since I'm no longer using the Roon Nucleus Plus with its Ethernet downstream connection, I just replaced it with a comparable Shunyata Omega AES/EBU cable.  So far so great.  Wired up the MU1 chassis to my Altaira as well.  But, as with much of the great design and implementation in the MU1, such tweaks yield modest benefits, at best.  I do find that my dCS Vivaldi Upsampler along with the companion APEX DAC are a bit better than the MU1's own 4fs upsampling.  I'm guessing it's partly due to the synergy between the units and their filtering options for both the Upsampler and DAC.  It's great to finally have a front-end that takes advantage of the rest of the system's capabilities.  Shouldn't have waited so long to discover Grimm.  But they've been flying a bit under the radar.  Hoping John-Paul and company spread the word.  Though it's not inexpensive I know I've shortchanged myself in not focusing more on a great source component for quite some time.  Call me one very happy camper!

[aangen]

Fun review!

Didn't somebody recently post that the MU1 is bested by the Taiko and I don’t remember the other.

 

My feet are up, relaxed in my chair, Roon Radio is putting a smile on my face. The MU1 is welcome to stay.

 

 I wish he could have plugged the CDT3 into the Grimm. It works it’s magic on external sources. It is especially true with CD transports. Just a nice little tip up in sound. It doesn’t do too much for a Gryphon Ethos. But I still run it through the Grimm.