Article: UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Review and Comparison

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, Ponkbutler said:

I will certainly try the fibre with Planet Tech MGB-TLX Mini GBIC LX. Which cable would you recommend?

 

Not a recommendation per se, as I did not compare different cables, but this is the single mode cable I used:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0099S4MZI

[AnAndGate]

As others have said, great review! 

 

My current config is 

Router > switch > A:etherregen:B > innuos server+streamer(roon server) > ethernet & USB > Auralic G2 DAC

         

I wanted to try an opticalrendu in the chain. I was thinking ….

 

Router > switch > innuos > B:etherregen:A > fibre > opticalrendu > USB > Auralic G2 DAC

Am I right in thinking the streamer is on the wrong side of the moat if attached to the switch? 

 

I was trying to avoid the need for the opticalmodule, and use the optical port on etherregen, but I think I may be missing something.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

A

 

[R1200CL]

50 minutes ago, AnAndGate said:

Router > switch > innuos > B:etherregen:A > fibre > opticalrendu > USB > Auralic G2 DAC

This is the correct and I suppose the only way to use etherRegen and the opticalrendu together. 
 

However @austinpop

It is my understanding that one, or in this case two opticalModules may raise SQ. (Or at least one FMC before the OM unless your router or switch upfront has SFP interface).  Is this assumption correct ?

I myself have both etherRegen, opticalrendu as well as an unused optical module laying around. (And FMC’s available). 
 

What is best practice these days regarding SFP (I think it’s either StarTech or FS), and is single mode now preferred over multimode ? 

(Link SFP is nice). 

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, AnAndGate said:

As others have said, great review! 

 

Thanks!

 

5 hours ago, AnAndGate said:

My current config is 

Router > switch > A:etherregen:B > innuos server+streamer(roon server) > ethernet & USB > Auralic G2 DAC

         

I wanted to try an opticalrendu in the chain. I was thinking ….

 

Router > switch > innuos > B:etherregen:A > fibre > opticalrendu > USB > Auralic G2 DAC

Am I right in thinking the streamer is on the wrong side of the moat if attached to the switch? 

 

I was trying to avoid the need for the opticalmodule, and use the optical port on etherregen, but I think I may be missing something.

 

Just to be clear, two questions:

1. are you trying to introduce fiber in the mix, or are you trying to go to a distributed configuration (server/endpoint), or both? 
2. which Innuos server are we talking about here? 

The general answer is to try all the options and go with what sounds best to your ears. Given the already excellent SQ of the higher-end Innuos servers like the ZENith Mk3 or Mk2 SE, I would be surprised if adding an opticalRendu would advance your SQ. Rather, I would suggest you apply those funds to an opticalModule instead, powered by a good quality LPS, and use it as follows:

• Router > (copper) > opticalModule > (fiber) > A:etherregen:B > (copper) innuos server+streamer(roon server) > ethernet & USB > Auralic G2 DAC

You'll need 2 transceivers: one on the oM and one on the eR. See below.

 

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

What is best practice these days regarding SFP (I think it’s either StarTech or FS), and is single mode now preferred over multimode ? 

(Link SFP is nice). 

 

I have let others do the exploring,  and then tried the ones that have shown promise. I've just stuck with single mode - have not compared with multimode - and have tried the oft-mentioned Startech, Planet, and Finisar transceivers. I know many like the Finisar's the best. In my system, they're very close to the Planet Tech, and I ultimately prefer the Planet Tech for now. These are cheap enough to just get both and try for yourself.

[AnAndGate]

20 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks!

 

 

Just to be clear, two questions:

1. are you trying to introduce fiber in the mix, or are you trying to go to a distributed configuration (server/endpoint), or both? 
2. which Innuos server are we talking about here? 

The general answer is to try all the options and go with what sounds best to your ears. Given the already excellent SQ of the higher-end Innuos servers like the ZENith Mk3 or Mk2 SE, I would be surprised if adding an opticalRendu would advance your SQ. Rather, I would suggest you apply those funds to an opticalModule instead, powered by a good quality LPS, and use it as follows:

• Router > (copper) > opticalModule > (fiber) > A:etherregen:B > (copper) innuos server+streamer(roon server) > ethernet & USB > Auralic G2 DAC

You'll need 2 transceivers: one on the oM and one on the eR. See below.

 

 

I have let others do the exploring,  and then tried the ones that have shown promise. I've just stuck with single mode - have not compared with multimode - and have tried the oft-mentioned Startech, Planet, and Finisar transceivers. I know many like the Finisar's the best. In my system, they're very close to the Planet Tech, and I ultimately prefer the Planet Tech for now. These are cheap enough to just get both and try for yourself.

I was trying to experiment with fibre (or fiber!).  I have a Zenith MkII SE, so the topology you suggest should allow me to play.

Thanks for the tip

[Ricardo007]

On 3/14/2020 at 2:04 AM, feelingears said:

I so appreciate the diagrams–better than pictures alone, and leagues ahead of video. And the playlist, too. Thank you again, @austinpop!

Any suggestion for a software or Android application intuitive and simple to use to create such network diagrammes ? 

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

Any suggestion for a software or Android application intuitive and simple to use to create such network diagrammes ? 

https://app.diagrams.net

[Wine Doctor]

A word of caution regarding the Melco S-100.

I am running Roon on a Wolf Audio Alpha 3SX to an S-100 and then on to a dCS Rossini Player.   I have repeatedly experienced the dreaded "audio files loading slowly" message when I tried to use a 100mb port on the S-100 for my Hi-Res and DSD streams from my music server to my dCS Rossini.  On the other hand, using a 1gb port on the S-100 worked fine. I have been advised by MELCO that there is not enough "headroom" on the 100MB ports to run Hi-Res and DSD streams through the 100MB ports. Furthermore, MELCO advises that it is not possible to change the 100mb ports to 1GB ports.

 

Thus, if one wants to play Hi-Res and DSD streams, one will not be able to take advantage of the higher sound quality advertised by Melco from the S-100's 100mb ports.  In addition, one may have more than four devices that need to connect to the four 1gb ports on S-100.  These limitations are not reported by Melco, which is lamentable.

Finally, you may have seen reports of an optional fiber optics converter (the "OP S-100") for the S-100.  I have been told by a MELCO dealer that the MELCO OP S-100 is only available in Japan.

[auricgoldfinger]

FWIW, I have always used the 100MB ports on the S100 without any issues of audio files loading slowly or network drop outs.  The large majority of my content is 96-24, 192-24, and DSD.  In fact, the only time I experienced connectivity issues was prior to the S100 when the ER was in my system.  While I most definitely am not challenging your experience or what you were told my Melco, based on my own experience with various switches, I believe the problem is network and system dependent.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Wine Doctor said:

Thus, if one wants to play Hi-Res and DSD streams, one will not be able to take advantage of the higher sound quality advertised by Melco from the S-100's 100mb ports.  In addition, one may have more than four devices that need to connect to the four 1gb ports on S-100.  These limitations are not reported by Melco, which is lamentable.

 

This seems rather off-topic in relation to the EtherREGEN review here.  

But since you bring it up, I can tell you that I--and many other EtherREGEN owners--are able to play DSD512 across the EtherREGEN's moat. ('A'side ports are all Gigabit-capable, 'B' side port is 100Mbps only.) Just sayin'...

[AnAndGate]

On 7/11/2020 at 2:03 PM, AnAndGate said:

I was trying to experiment with fibre (or fiber!).  I have a Zenith MkII SE, so the topology you suggest should allow me to play.

Thanks for the tip

I like the addition of fibre in the chain with the Sonore OM to etherregen. Really opened up the soundstage, mid range bass. 

Router > (copper) > opticalModule > (fiber) > A:etherregen:B > (copper) innuos server+streamer(roon server) > ethernet & USB > Auralic G2 DAC

 

Re-read the review the other day and tripped into the rabbit hole; now I want to experiment chaining switches if I can get my hands on a Melco S100. The problem is the multitude of combinations I can try with OM, etherregen, S100, fiber and copper!!  Here are my main options :-

 

# fibre isolation first , then chain switches...

1 Router > (copper) > opticalModule > (fiber) > A:etherregen:B > (copper) > S100> (copper) Innuos...

# or replace OM...

2 Router > (copper) > S100 > (fiber) > A:etherregen:B > (copper)  Innuos...

# or put S100 in front of etherregen...

3 Router > (copper) > opticalModule > (fiber) > S100> (copper) >A:etherregen:B > (copper) Innuos...

# x2 fiber...

4 Router > (copper) > opticalModule > (fiber) > S100> (fiber) >A:etherregen:B > (copper) Innuos...

(I could go on)

 

Any recommendations to particular topology and why? Or a ladder to get out of the hole.

 

 

[austinpop]

All I can say is: experiment, and see for yourself which you like best. At this point, you are in mad scientist mode! 😂

[MHar]

Question for @austinpop and @Superdad;

 

Will the presence of a NetGear GS-108 switch upstream from the EtherRegen benefit from the "2-switch" synergy or is it too low end to matter?

 

MHar

[Superdad]

16 hours ago, MHar said:

Will the presence of a NetGear GS-108 switch upstream from the EtherRegen benefit from the "2-switch" synergy or is it too low end to matter?

 

Probably will not help.  And from some reports I have seen, putting a cheap extra switch before the EtherREGEN might be slightly worse.  But no harm, and little cost, in experimenting! 

[austinpop]

17 hours ago, MHar said:

Question for @austinpop and @Superdad;

 

Will the presence of a NetGear GS-108 switch upstream from the EtherRegen benefit from the "2-switch" synergy or is it too low end to matter?

 

MHar

Doesn’t really have an effect.

[bober101]

I'm sorry to say but uppon reading the initial article and posts and also relying on my own personal experience with networking, this all seems like fabrication. i do not have the tools nor equipment to test or even buy the product but common sense states that packets are digital and if an error occurs they would just get retransmitted plus its all buffered. plus you're not streaming over the internet, its all LAN. so unless you live on the sun or you have extremely cheap/broken networking, none of the benefits described is Real. good off the shelf hubs/switches should do just fine.

 

im concerned that audiophilestyle.com and or the articles poster was remunerated to post.

 

please do your selves a favor and have a read here:

https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/

 

i mean its just network 101...

 

 

regards,

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, bober101 said:

plus you're not streaming over the internet, its all LAN.

Hi bober, can you explain what difference this would make?

 

 

1 hour ago, bober101 said:

im concerned that audiophilestyle.com and or the articles poster was remunerated to post.

 

Absolutely not. 
 

 

 

1 hour ago, bober101 said:

unless you live on the sun or you have extremely cheap/broken networking, none of the benefits described is Real.

You think there are benefits in only some cases? What benefits do you see?

[bober101]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi bober, can you explain what difference this would make?

 

 

 

Absolutely not. 
 

 

 

You think there are benefits in only some cases? What benefits do you see?

the analysis is in the link i posted but it keeps being edited. a quick google search can pull it up. measurements are made hard data provided.

 

i can't provide better reasons/facts than what is presented.

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, bober101 said:

i can't provide better reasons/facts than what is presented.

 

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/uptone-audio-etherregen-ethernet-switch

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58910-etherregen-formal-video-imaging-and-audio-review/

 

https://www.threshold-lovers.com/2020/05/25/uptone-audio-etherregen/

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

40 minutes ago, bober101 said:

the analysis is in the link i posted but it keeps being edited. a quick google search can pull it up. measurements are made hard data provided.

 

i can't provide better reasons/facts than what is presented.

The links aren’t edited. 
 

We banned links to that site after way too many incidents. 
 

You may want to look further into the conflicts of interest and misinformation on that site. It has been discussed many times around here.  You can search if you’d like, but I won’t rehash it in this comment section. 

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, bober101 said:

I'm sorry to say but uppon reading the initial article and posts and also relying on my own personal experience with networking, this all seems like fabrication. i do not have the tools nor equipment to test or even buy the product but common sense states that packets are digital and if an error occurs they would just get retransmitted plus its all buffered. plus you're not streaming over the internet, its all LAN. so unless you live on the sun or you have extremely cheap/broken networking, none of the benefits described is Real. good off the shelf hubs/switches should do just fine.

You could purchase one, and return it and get money back. Can you tell us how you stream music ?

Maybe from a windows PC via USB to a DAC ?

[bober101]

53 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The links aren’t edited. 
 

We banned links to that site after way too many incidents. 
 

You may want to look further into the conflicts of interest and misinformation on that site. It has been discussed many times around here.  You can search if you’d like, but I won’t rehash it in this comment section. 

yeah i was not aware of the whole situation. i don't want to spread the fire. I'm an analogue dude anyways and since i work in IT, my logic/reflex is what i am running off and  i just happened to find that forum since I've also used it to source info on other equipment. again sorry for reopening this can of worms.

 

there is just 1 golden rule I'd like to leave you all with before i go;

the less intermediates a signal goes through the better.

 

regards 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

15 minutes ago, bober101 said:

there is just 1 golden rule I'd like to leave you all with before i go;

the less intermediates a signal goes through the better.

I hear you bober, but that’s an argument for a device like the ether regen because you’re saying more devices actually cause problems, thus there’s a problem that must be dealt with. 
 

In the strictly analog world, I used to believe this until I tried some DACs with a preamp between the DAC and amp. Sometimes it’s better and other times it isn’t. 
 

I like options and am happy if you’re happy listening to great music on your system.
 

Live and let listen. 

[nonesup]

On 5/18/2020 at 6:03 PM, austinpop said:

 

Prescriptive advice is dangerous in audio, and I find it's even more so in the network part of the chain, as this tends to be very system- and house-dependent. So here are just some thoughts:

• I would be hesitant to spend that much on a REF 10 only for switches. It makes more sense if you have other gear with reference clock needs so you can amortize it over the rest of the chain.
• Do experiment with fiber somewhere in the path. I find I like it between the 2 switches, using the Planet Tech MGB-TLX Mini GBIC LX transceivers
• The eR/Melco combo certainly sounds very good here. 

Hi Rajiv.

In your experience which sounds better: ER —- Melco S-100 ——- Server ——— DAC or Melco S-100 ——— ER ——- Server ——- DAC.

[austinpop]

7 minutes ago, nonesup said:

Hi Rajiv.

In your experience which sounds better: ER —- Melco S-100 ——- Server ——— DAC or Melco S-100 ——— ER ——- Server ——- DAC.

 

It's system dependent, subjective, and an easy set of experiments, so you really should try it both ways for yourself.

1. Start with copper cables across the chain to establish your preferred switch order.
2. Then as a second refinement, compare copper and fiber between the S100 and eR.
3. Descending further into the rabbit hole, compare SFP transceivers. I like both the Planet Tech or the Finisar's that are discussed on the eR thread.