Building a DIY Music Server

[ASRMichael]

Thought I would share. I’ve got dedicated mains at home. So bought two of these fans. Plugged them into my house mains socket using dual usb plug. So no negative effect with noisy power. 
 

I sit them behind the HDPLEX case. I’m quite amazed simple by blowing air through the case it’s reduced CPU temps by 7c. Just shows the heat that is lingering about inside the case that can’t escape. 
 

Fan are only set to half speed to ensure I can’t hear the fans running. 
 

I’ve actually ordered another 2. 

[ASRMichael]

31 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Yes, that's a good part but there is a catch - the M.2 direct will only work with 11th gen proc. You are out of luck with 10th gen. They were only able to include it in Z590 because the pcie lanes in 11th gen has increased from 16 to 20 - so a combination of 1x16+1x4, 2x8+1x4, 1x8+3x4 works perfectly. The 10th gen also allowed 1x16, 2x8, 1x8+2x4 but many Bios didn't allow the required bifurcation, at least not in my Asus ROG Maximus. It would be interesting to see if Asus allowed the 3x4 combination in their Z590 mobo.

That was my mistake. I seen XII Extreme saying the dimm.2 lane is connected to CPU. Didn’t appreciate or research further, i found out by using the dimm.2 for m.2 it deactivated my 2nd PCIE lane (where my JCAT card is) 😢😢! 
 

I do wonder how much different it makes if using Euphony Ramroot? In theory should be no disk activity at all. But we’re all audiophiles so we think it will...

[ASRMichael]

31 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

I use ROG Maximus X11 Hero and the heat pipe just touches the VRM heat sink. I thought of bending the pipes a bit to just pass it over but did not finally do it.

 

 

That's good news. I have to find a way to know if I have a newer heatsink or not. Will need to check with Lary.

Not sure new version is launched yet! Which is good news for you! You’ll have 3mm clearance! 3mm doesn’t sound a lot but it’s the difference of heat pipes touching the heatsink or not. Nice to see Larry moving his designs along to accommodate new motherboards. 

[ASRMichael]

47 minutes ago, Exocer said:

@Darryl R - I have seen mention of the 665P for music file storage. Good performance for the price.

 

In other news, I am excited to share that the new Taiko DC-ATX module has arrived.

I am feeding it the 19V input of the PH SR7T the same exact way I did with the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX.

 

Connected this way using Mundorf Silver Gold 15.5awg wire with additional cotton sleeve:

 

Pin 1 for +3.3v 

Pin 3 for Ground

Pin 4 for +5v

Pin 5 for Ground

Pin 6 for +5v

Pin 8 for PWR-OK

Pin 9 for +5Vsb

Pin 10 for +12v

Pin 16 for PWR-On

 

The long-term plan is to get more of these wires connected to see if this will further improve performance but this is sounding wonderful as is. I would think 15.5awg solid core wire would probably be as good or better than the crappy relatively thin stranded wire in most basic ATX cables for transferring adequate current.

 

Not sure if break-in is complete after just two days but it is sounding very good and improving 2 days in.

 

Will report back with my findings after about a week but so far this has been a very good purchase!

 

Many thanks to @Nenon and Emile.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have plans to use for your CPU also? 

[ASRMichael]

5 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

I will just leave it here

 

https://jcat.eu/the-revolution-in-digital-audio-is-about-to-begin-optimo-atx-psu-final-prototype-sneak-peak/

Live the timing of this post. Good on you Marcin. Competitive market place. 

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, JayM said:

 

As I promised yesterday, here are some pictures to give an indication how the DIY chassis will look.

The external size of the chassis is 483mm wide, 496 mm long and 177 mm high (including the feet).

The internal size of the chassis is 416mm wide, 483 mm long and 150 mm high.

The whole chassis will be CNC-machined out of high grade aluminium.

We still have to add the recess for IEC on the back plate, the rest of the chassis is pretty veracious to the final product.

The chassis will come in black, this will be the exact same colour as the black version of SGM Extreme servers, unfortunately other colours are not an option so far. 

 

We hope to send the definite plans into production somewhere near the end of next week.

 

 

 

Thanks for the information. Do you have information;

 

- passive CPU cooling capabilities? What is TDP rating?
- Will CPU heatsink & heat pipes be included? 
- will it be compatible with other motherboards & CPU? 

- would also be good to see a render of full size motherboard & atx inside the case. 
 

Thanks

[ASRMichael]

@Nenon thanks for the post.
 

What this tells me is - Please don’t buy the Extreme (as mentioned on WBF) otherwise the gap between diy & others will increase. Having such an avid diyer on this forum is so valuable. Just look what’s happened with other users here who have bought the extreme. Now none existent, or much less contribution than before. I do understand why. I’m not complaining so get me wrong. 
 

You bring so much to this forum, especially users who learn & spend money because of your work. As a result of your hobby (expensive hobby) you make money for this site. You should maybe ask for a contribution from site owners to keep your diying going!!! 
 

As I said above please don’t be tempted by taking easy route! 
 

Cheers

[ASRMichael]

5 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenonchallenge accepted!

 

There is no way ANY switching power supply can compete with a truly linear PSU

Buy one & try it then!!! That’s what many of us here are planning! 

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, JayM said:

 

Yes, the chassis will be set-up for passive CPU cooling, the TDP rating will be 2 x 85W at normal usage

Yes, CPU heatsinks and heat pipes will be included but only for the LGA3647 square.

Yes, it is compatible with motherboards mini ITX up to SSI EEB and all compatible CPU's under 2 x 85W at normal usage.

 

Unfortunately we are not be able to provide a render of the chassis with a full size motherboard & ATX as of now. When we receive our prototype chassis we might be able to provide some pictures with a full size motherboard & ATX in the case during test fitting.

 

Hopefully that answers everything!

 

Thanks can you just clarify; So the case is compatible with other motherboards & CPU’s but the Taiko cpu heatsink & heat pipes are not? 

 

Yes, CPU heatsinks and heat pipes will be included but only for the LGA3647 square.

[ASRMichael]

24 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Matt, are there any technical specifications or measurements to back up the superiority of Taiko DC-ATX? I'm sure this would be of interest to averyone in this thread and potential buyers. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

Don’t bother. 

 

11 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenon has a great experience, I have zero doubts about this. But the fact that he got the Taiko USB card as a non-SGM Extreme owner should ring a bell. As you all probably know, the Taiko USB Card is not available to purchase for anyone but Taiko SGM Extreme owners. I trust that this special treatment did not impact his objective opininion about the Taiko DC-ATX, but I'd like to see more reviews and comparisons before calling Taiko DC-ATX superior to all products on the martket. 

 

Full disclosure:@Nenonbought many products from me. I have no intention to doubt him. But l'd recommend waiting for more user reviews before calling Taiko DC-ATX the best. I would like to see a comparison to my upcoming OPTIMO ATX. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin 

 

 

Nenon had the ATX way before the USB card. Also few posts above Nenon explains his friend purchased for him. So I don’t believe there’s a biased view. 

[ASRMichael]

30 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Please be careful and respectful guys. 

Good point...settle down guys! The diyers have never had it so good! Very exiting times. So let’s celebrate that! 
 

Having many many manufacturers fighting for space is great! Innovation will go through the roof! Today might be Taiko then another day will be someone else. That’s life. 

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Getting back on track:

 

I have decided to give this setup a few days to settle in before providing detailed thoughts.

 

What I will say is this certainly does sound different than 19v + 12v (to EPS) and I do not know how much of that difference comes from the use of the Ghent cable. This is an apples to oranges comparison so take from it what you will :). Is it a good or bad difference? I do not think it is fair to say just yet.

 

One thing is for sure, the 19v 10A SR7T can peacefully provide stable power to a full ATX motherboard, CPU, Optane drive, NIC, USB card without a hitch.

 

Will share more details in the coming days.

 

Cheers,

-Rob 

Cheers Rob. Keep posts coming. 
 

One other synergy out with the Taiko ATX is having such short cables from ATX to EPS & Mobo. This will help my OCD for sure. 

[ASRMichael]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:20 PM, ASRMichael said:

Thanks can you just clarify; So the case is compatible with other motherboards & CPU’s but the Taiko cpu heatsink & heat pipes are not? 

 

Yes, CPU heatsinks and heat pipes will be included but only for the LGA3647 square.

@JayM

 

Hi can you please clarify? 

[ASRMichael]

Please can we stay on topic “Building a DIY music server”

 

I don’t really care about spec’s what Taiko uses and does not. I’m more interested in hearing from diyers that have found increase in SQ, like Exocer’s posts, and menu others for that matter. 
 

Lets not squabble, that’s for forums like ASR! 

[ASRMichael]

14 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Surely every WBF member can delete his own posts.

Please do not talk BS. 

Thanks

 

Matt

Matthias please enough. No need to say BS. Move on. 

[ASRMichael]

10 minutes ago, Mops911 said:

mess deliberately created by the EU ;-)

We’ll we’ve left! So I’m fine! 

[ASRMichael]

I know I’ve shown these fans before but I’ve been doing a bit of experimentation with placement. Also I’ve purchased another two since last post.
 

Using 20 Threads running at 4.5ghz I’ve got temps down to 35c. My i9 10900k is much hotter than my previous i9 9900k. 
 

I’m using HDPLEX case. My takeaway from my experiments are the more you blow the hot air away from the side heatsink the better the cpu temps will be. That’s logical I suppose. I’ll post photos at later stage of all 4 fan locations but two face the heatsink at side, sitting externally of the case. 1 fan at back of the case pushing air towards the heat pipes, externally again. And last one pushing air through pcie slots at the back. 
 

I can now touch the heatsink and fairly it’s cold. This must extend the 65c maximum temp specification of the Hdplex case. Note I don’t have the fans up full either around 40%. So not really audible.  
 

@ 5.3ghz fully open temps sit around 45c. 
 

I appreciate this is dependent on your room & ventilation so other might do better or worse. 
 

Anyway thought I would share. £20 each

 

If anyone concerned about vibration don’t be. They are so light, can be hanged by a thread from your rack. Also they’re not touching the case. 

 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, Topk said:

I posted this. A few comments on what happened since:

- if you have a big budget and you can find inventory, the new AMD 5 series is likely even better than the 3 series 
- I’m now running my 3950x at a locked speed of 4ghz (technically, it is overclocked) and locked voltage at around 1.2V. 

- stock HDplex heatsink but Kryonaut thermal paste everywhere 

- 2.8A consumption on Keces P8 single rail

- CPU temperature is 48 degrees. Playing music right now (no upsampling)...

- I do recommend an acrylic lid with holes and/or the fans discussed above or other strategies to keep heat as low as possible

- I do recommend a LPS with strong amperage at the very least 8A and higher amperage is better (I can explain in more details why in PM if you want, happy to help)

You’ve just reminded me above the acrylic lid! Should be here on Friday. I totally forgot about it until I seen your post. 👍

[ASRMichael]

18 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

VERY excited this project is finally public.  Over 6+ months of helping tune these filters, the progress has been remarkable, and the results extraordinary.  We're really approaching some fundamental limits here on digital processing, and it has been humbling to hear what was always there in digital content, just waiting to be revealed.

 

Well done @Zaphod Beeblebrox!

 

(Disclaimer: although I'm delighted to have been helping on the project since basically day one, I have no financial interest in the project, I paid full price for my license, etc.)

Is this effectively another HQPlayer? What are the benefits? 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

@Nenon Jay from audiobacon.net has finished his review of OPTIMO 3 DUO today with a comparison to Paul Hynes SR7 (I already know the outcome). I kindly asked him to postpone the publication and extend the review with a comparison to Sean Jacobs DC4 - you will hear from him soon regarding a review sample of the DC4. Are you OK to put it up against the OPTIMO 3 DUO? 

 

You can send one to me & I’ll compare to my SJ DC3? 👍 probably a fairer test. A DC4 can be 3x the price of a Optimo 3 Duo. I appreciate cost doesn’t come into it. 

[ASRMichael]

Hi

 

If one has 2 LPS, 1 for ATX & 1 for CPU. What is the best way to power them on? 
 

Start ATX first or vice versa? 

[ASRMichael]

55 minutes ago, Gurkel said:

 

Dumb question: do you have some skills in maths/phyiscs and maybe a bit about computer hardware?

 

Because what you are telling me is impossible to achieve the way to plan to do it,.

 

The idea with the multi processors and "optimzed OS" is completely wrong, which is something anyone knows who is overclocking his computer, but let me explain it. Modern CPUs contain multiple cores for the fastest possible way of doing calculations, plus run at very high frequencies. The higher the frequency they run, the faster they calculate. Problem is: they consume a lot of power which must be removed by a dedicated cooler, and the higher the frequency a cpu runs, the more heat must be removed. So heat is a limiting factor of the performance of a CPU, and Intel and AMD do anything to optimize the way how heat is generated.

On trick every CPU with more than one core does, is the following. It analysises which core is busy with doing calculations (and generates heat) and moves the process to different core after some milliseconds. By doing this, the CPU can spread the generated heat over a bigger area. So not a single spot gets really hot but the whole CPU warms up. And this gives the cooler the chance to move more heat away, resulting in a better performance of the CPU due to higher possible frequenciey it can run. This function is hard coded into the CPU and cannot be modified by any software, leave alone an "optimized OS". It also cannot be modified by changing the clock speed, so no matter if you run your computer at 1GHz or 4GHz, it will do the same process swap all the time. Last but not least I am sure that the tidal or Noon server running on a windows machine is not multithreaded but a single thread. If you run such server software on a machine with 40 threads, you have 39 idle threads and the one doing something is bored by the amount of information it has to push around.

 

The "low latency" for audio streams is not required. The digital signal going out on an USB port to the DAC is in the range of 350kb/s, which is an amount of data far far far away from a range where you need some more "horse power" to do the job. My rock64 (a simple SBC) can handle 80MB/sec without issues. And low latency also is not required because the data exchange is asynchronus, which means: the data doesn't have to arrive "just in time" and if the computer is busy doing something else at the moment, everything breaks. A short delay is captured by the buffer on the receiving side.

 

 

I stumbled across the description of one of these prebuild HQ servers (Takio? Taiko?), had a look at the product details and was a bit amused to see that someone really gets away with this and actually sells these computers.

 

 

So, why spend thousands of dollars if it's not required?

One opinion versus many many of us here & plenty of other forums, who would disagree with you. But sure you’re entitled to your opinion. I presume you have come to that conclusion based on actually trying & listening? Or is it just your view? 

[ASRMichael]

5 minutes ago, Gurkel said:

 

Well, it's more like you are driving around at 30 km/h and tell others you need 500 horsepower and bi turbo so you can accelerate to 32 km/h when you use a 20 core computer to run Tidal which (according to the webpage of tidal) requires 512MB RAM, win7 and a CPU sold 10 years ago.

This thread is not about theory, it’s about building a diy server. Clearly you have no plans to follow what other users here have tried. So suggest you search forum for subjective threads. You can argue your points there. 
 

I do wonder why you joined this forum? Your 1st post was asking a question. Your 2nd post was you telling us you think. So I do wonder why join the forum? I suggest before telling people they have wasted their money go and spend a few days reading through many greats threads/posts. 

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, Dev said:

Taiko is action 😄

 

Early opinion? 

[ASRMichael]

Sorry to interrupt a last few posts but I’m at my wits end with a problem I have! 
 

I’ve been run successfully my Asus Rog Maximus XII Extreme mobo fine for the last few months!! 
 

What’s the problem? It won’t pass boot it say “Load VGA Bios” out of my 100 times trying its booted twice! 
 

Here’s a list of everything I’ve tried, countless hour in the last week. 

 

Cleared CMOS

Flashed bios with my working version 

Flashed bios with new version 

Removed RAM to 1 stick

Removed M.2 cards

Turned of Turbo & set all bios options to default 

Put bios settings back in that we’re working before. 
Removed Eth & USB card

 

Tried with a PC PSU. Interestingly boots no problem, that indicates maybe my LPS.  But they are working fine, unless an internal fault on the ATX or CPU rail. But maybe because I have a GPU card installed. My mobo doesn’t have internal graphics
 

Usually you can pin point the issue but I have no idea what to do next except chuck the mobo in the bin & start again! Arrrrrr! 
 

any help would be much appreciated! As I said it past post twice in probably 100 attempts! But I rebooted Euphony today and got stuck again! Rebooted it 30 times & gave up! So here I am asking for help! 
 

Hopefully someone can help?