Building a DIY Music Server

[MarcelNL]

11 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Hi, I did some inquiry about the SOTM motherboard to a local dutch shop and this is the answer i got back.

 

 

Hi Rik

Thank you for your email and interest in SOtM motherboard.

SOtM makes fantastic products, but the motherboard has become a loss-making item for us.

Even though this is a standard motherboard, we have received the board back 4 times with a damaged CPU
 base. 

Pins were bent and of course it no longer worked. (See photo below of the last board we got back)

We have therefore become very hesitant to sell this board.

I looked it up, but this is not a special CPU foot, it is just standard material.

We have the network card and clock boards in stock.

Some customers modify their own motherboard. This also has the advantage that you can work with newer generations of motherboards/CPUs.

 

 

 

 

 

???? Does anybody recognize this problem?

 

 

damaging a Motherboard during insertion of the CPU or mounting the cooler is not too difficult for the un-initiated I guess...luckily there are more options to purchase this MB

 

If this shop is interested in selling this product they should offer a service to a; install the CPU, or b: sell it with CPU installed, that cuts issues down to mounting cooling solutions...(it's too easy to damage the pins of a CPU when the heat conductive paste is cold and rock solid)

[RickyV]

47 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

damaging a Motherboard during insertion of the CPU or mounting the cooler is not too difficult for the un-initiated I guess...luckily there are more options to purchase this MB

 

If this shop is interested in selling this product they should offer a service to a; install the CPU, or b: sell it with CPU installed, that cuts issues down to mounting cooling solutions...(it's too easy to damage the pins of a CPU when the heat conductive paste is cold and rock solid)

thanks, so you think it’s just user inexperience? I will email them to see what the problem is and maybe they can install it, good idea.

I watched a YouTube video doesn’t look difficult. A long time ago I installed a few cpu’s but they had the pins on cpu itself.

[BCRich]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

thanks, so you think it’s just user inexperience? I will email them to see what the problem is and maybe they can install it, good idea.

I watched a YouTube video doesn’t look difficult. A long time ago I installed a few cpu’s but they had the pins on cpu itself.

Both myself and @Exocer have the SoTM MB, no problem’s on our end.

Using an Intel i9900K CPU, install was no different than the Gigabyte MB used previously. Just gotta make sure it’s lined up properly.

[Exocer]

23 minutes ago, BCRich said:

Both myself and @Exocer have the SoTM MB, no problem’s on our end.

Using an Intel i9900K CPU, install was no different than the Gigabyte MB used previously. Just gotta make sure it’s lined up properly.

I also tried two different CPUs on the SMB Q370. I did not experience issues at any point.

[MarcelNL]

Not having used this board I'd say that damaged sockets are most likely user error ...

[Gavin1977]

22 hours ago, RickyV said:

 

Is this a reasonable price for these “old” cpu‘s. I might order the SOTM motherboard soon.

Yes that’s a good price - I would suggest avoiding 9900KF, couldn’t get it to boot (not sure if this is a known issue or a one off).

[Gavin1977]

6 hours ago, RickyV said:

thanks, so you think it’s just user inexperience? I will email them to see what the problem is and maybe they can install it, good idea.

I watched a YouTube video doesn’t look difficult. A long time ago I installed a few cpu’s but they had the pins on cpu itself.

I did experience difficulty - motherboard wouldn’t boot.  Sent it back directly to SoTM after troubleshooting and they did exchange it no quibbles.  The new one worked fine.  But my friend also experienced something similar.   So anyway, it’s real good, but just be prepared to put some hours in if it doesn’t boot first time.

[MayfromSOtM]

12 hours ago, RickyV said:

Hi, I did some inquiry about the SOTM motherboard to a local dutch shop and this is the answer i got back.

 

 

Hi Rik

Thank you for your email and interest in SOtM motherboard.

SOtM makes fantastic products, but the motherboard has become a loss-making item for us.

Even though this is a standard motherboard, we have received the board back 4 times with a damaged CPU
 base. 

Pins were bent and of course it no longer worked. (See photo below of the last board we got back)

We have therefore become very hesitant to sell this board.

I looked it up, but this is not a special CPU foot, it is just standard material.

We have the network card and clock boards in stock.

Some customers modify their own motherboard. This also has the advantage that you can work with newer generations of motherboards/CPUs.

 

 

 

 

 

???? Does anybody recognize this problem?

 

 

I would say every CPU pins on MB are weak and fragile, it’s not only for the one on the sMB-Q370, so it should be handled very carefully, otherwise it will be very easily bent or broken, then MB won’t work properly.. Just simply google about cpu pins, there are tons of articles about it..

[seeteeyou]

21 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

My experiments with X570 MB's showed me that more phases are better, yet once I turned on the Sage (without ANY OS tinkering or load balancing) that idea went largely down the drain

 

(WS C621E SAGE) 7 + 7 + 3 + 5 = 22

https://cdn.cs.1worldsync.com/95/97/9597d73d-7100-4541-8e62-3a464438230a.jpg

 

(ROG Crosshair VIII Extreme) 18 + 2 = 20

https://media.overclock3d.net/2023/10/asus-rog-x570-crosshair-viii-extreme-review_6527cbd90a5a3.jpeg

 

---

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/would-someone-explain-power-vrm-phases.236778/#post-3721865

Quote

More phases means that the power is split up over more VRMs so the heat in each is lower with means the heat is spread out over a bigger area. The big VRM heat sink will be cooler than a small VRM heatsink.

So yes, more phases generally mean cooler.

 

And then we've got this similar example as an analogy

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE9NIZShfZY&t=7m54s

Quote

The reason for that is while these chips are still outputting as much thermal energy per heat as a 14900K, which is notoriously difficult to cool when it's boosting to its max, the core temperatures are more manageable because that heat is spread across a larger surface area.

 

WS C621E SAGE with dual processors = 76.16 × 56.6 × 2 mm²

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/cores/cascade_lake_sp

Quote

76.16 mm × 56.6 mm

 

ROG Crosshair VIII Extreme with single processor = 40 × 40 mm²

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/packages/socket_am4

Quote

40 mm × 40 mm

 

Many thanks for the good laugh since we're comparing apples to oranges

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/234/#comment-1263484

On 12/12/2023 at 3:12 PM, MarcelNL said:

If you know the power rating for the heatsink you'll get an idea if it'll work, you definitely want cooler temperatures than what 'typical computer folks' are running. The audible difference between <40'C and >50'C is too large to be ignored

[sakso136]

Hi guys,

i want to know if anybody is willing to buy/diy the nenon server design, cause thinking selling mine.

mine was built completely by nenon himself and shipped to me.

if nobody is interested i m willing selling it by parts.

taiko dc/atx, jcat xe card, jcat femto net card, soul analogue unregulated ps,excellent signal project avalon usb cable, singxer su6, paul hynes 5t ulps, few nenon silver mundorf cables, etc….

lemme know..

[MarcelNL]

16 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

(WS C621E SAGE) 7 + 7 + 3 + 5 = 22

https://cdn.cs.1worldsync.com/95/97/9597d73d-7100-4541-8e62-3a464438230a.jpg

 

(ROG Crosshair VIII Extreme) 18 + 2 = 20

https://media.overclock3d.net/2023/10/asus-rog-x570-crosshair-viii-extreme-review_6527cbd90a5a3.jpeg

 

---

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/would-someone-explain-power-vrm-phases.236778/#post-3721865

 

And then we've got this similar example as an analogy

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE9NIZShfZY&t=7m54s

 

WS C621E SAGE with dual processors = 76.16 × 56.6 × 2 mm²

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/cores/cascade_lake_sp

 

ROG Crosshair VIII Extreme with single processor = 40 × 40 mm²

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/packages/socket_am4

 

Many thanks for the good laugh since we're comparing apples to oranges

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/234/#comment-1263484

I'm not sure but we may well be talking about different things...the Asus Sage powers 2 CPUs. It might help me understand you better if you use more language and less quotes, I find it hard to read.

 

What my understanding about the Asus Sage MB is that it has ;

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/workstation/ws-c621e-sage/techspec/

 

ASUS Digital Power Design :
- Industry leading Digital 7  + 1  Phase CPU Power Design

- Industry leading Digital 2  Phase DRAM Power Design

whether that is for each CPU or for both I don;t know, even when it is 7+1 per CPU I'm not seeing a huge advantage over the ROG Crosshair VIII Extreme, but please elaborate as I may be missing something crucial here.

 

[JackJohnson316]

Hi,

 

I'm starting to gather material for an Extreme DIY clone.

 

I plan to purchase the Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard, 12 sticks of D51.23184S.001 Apacer DRAM REG DDR4-2666 DIMM 4GB CL19 WT ram, and two Xeon 4210 cpus.

 

I'll purchase the case and heatsinks later (Waiting for the HDPlex EATX full size case quarter 2 2024 hopefully).

 

Here are my questions if anyone has experience or can help:

 

1. What operating system can I install of the Sage motherboard? I read somewhere this motherboard is so old that it no longer supports some operating systems. Is this correct? I'm planning on trying Euphony V4 to see if it will run. Maybe even two copies of Euphony, one on each cpu. 

 

2. Can the Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard support a NVME Intel Optane SSD 800P? I plan to run the operating system off of this card.

 

3. Are the D51.23184S.001 Apacer DRAM REG DDR4-2666 DIMM 4GB CL19 WT ram sticks the correct ram to purchase? 

 

I already have a Sean Jacobs ULPS, a Taiko Audio atx, a jcat ethernet card xe, and most of the cabling I need. So I mainly need a motherboard, case, ram, 2 cpu's, and a good operating system to start my project. 

 

Thanks for any input! 

[NewOldman]

"HDPlex EATX full size case " ?

is this some new product,

any more info 

 

 

[NewOldman]

1 hour ago, JackJohnson316 said:

Hi,

 

I'm starting to gather material for an Extreme DIY clone.

 

I plan to purchase the Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard, 12 sticks of D51.23184S.001 Apacer DRAM REG DDR4-2666 DIMM 4GB CL19 WT ram, and two Xeon 4210 cpus.

 

I'll purchase the case and heatsinks later (Waiting for the HDPlex EATX full size case quarter 2 2024 hopefully).

 

Here are my questions if anyone has experience or can help:

 

1. What operating system can I install of the Sage motherboard? I read somewhere this motherboard is so old that it no longer supports some operating systems. Is this correct? I'm planning on trying Euphony V4 to see if it will run. Maybe even two copies of Euphony, one on each cpu. 

 

2. Can the Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard support a NVME Intel Optane SSD 800P? I plan to run the operating system off of this card.

 

3. Are the D51.23184S.001 Apacer DRAM REG DDR4-2666 DIMM 4GB CL19 WT ram sticks the correct ram to purchase? 

 

I already have a Sean Jacobs ULPS, a Taiko Audio atx, a jcat ethernet card xe, and most of the cabling I need. So I mainly need a motherboard, case, ram, 2 cpu's, and a good operating system to start my project. 

 

Thanks for any input! 

You can use any windows  OS from SRV2012 to SRV2022 or W10/W11

or Euphony V3/V4

Optane 800P will work or any other NVME

[JackJohnson316]

30 minutes ago, NewOldman said:

"HDPlex EATX full size case " ?

is this some new product,

any more info 

 

 

I emailed Larry last week and he told me it will be available more like 2nd quarter 2024 supporting EATX motherboards. That’s all I know. 

[JackJohnson316]

13 minutes ago, NewOldman said:

You can use any windows  OS from SRV2012 to SRV2022 or W10/W11

or Euphony V3/V4

Optane 800P will work or any other NVME

Where do you place the nvme drive on the Sage motherboard? I looked everywhere on it and can’t find where to place it from the pictures. My previous motherboard had a slot and screw to secure it. Thanks 

[NewOldman]

7 minutes ago, JackJohnson316 said:

Where do you place the nvme drive on the Sage motherboard? I looked everywhere on it and can’t find where to place it from the pictures. My previous motherboard had a slot and screw to secure it. Thanks 

behind Pci-E slot 7

on the side of motherboard

or look in the manual

WS C621E SAGE｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

 

 

 

 

[JackJohnson316]

29 minutes ago, NewOldman said:

behind Pci-E slot 7

on the side of motherboard

or look in the manual

WS C621E SAGE｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

 

Okay thanks. It was called a NGFF1 connector in the manual that was throwing me off. I was looking for NVME, which apparently is the newer name for NGFF1. I'm still learning the lingo. Thanks

 

 

 

[Toymanmark]

I would recommend an PCIE adapter and install in slot 3. This allows the m.2 NVME drive to be connected to CPU direct and not through the chipset! I used the JCAT m.2 NVME ssd( so I assume most NVME SSD should work). I am also running Euphony V4. It sounds fantastic! Hope this helps and good luck with the project!

[Exocer]

37 minutes ago, Toymanmark said:

I would recommend an PCIE adapter and install in slot 3. This allows the m.2 NVME drive to be connected to CPU direct and not through the chipset! I used the JCAT m.2 NVME ssd( so I assume most NVME SSD should work). I am also running Euphony V4. It sounds fantastic! Hope this helps and good luck with the project!

 Beautiful build! This gives me serious FOMO for missing out on the Taiko chassis….

 

I noticed you have no jumpers on the Femto NVMe. Is this deliberate? Cheers

[JackJohnson316]

Thanks for all the advice and help with an Extreme DIY project. In terms of Ram, I assumed that Apacer was the way to go, but now that I'm looking at the Extreme it looks like that it is using ATP ram, most likely industrial grade, 2400mhz. Anybody know where I can purchase this?

Digikey and Mouser seem to offer the newest version, 3200mhz, but the Sage motherboard only supports 2933/266/2400/2133 mhz. Will 3200 mhz even work or cause stability issues?

Thanks for the help.

[Toymanmark]

Jumper was off at the time of building out the PC. I believe that was for internal or external power. It is on now, set for external PSU. I built a 3 rail 5v PSU to power 3 JCAT cards.

1. NVME m.2

2. Net card

3. USB card

[Exocer]

28 minutes ago, JackJohnson316 said:

Thanks for all the advice and help with an Extreme DIY project. In terms of Ram, I assumed that Apacer was the way to go, but now that I'm looking at the Extreme it looks like that it is using ATP ram, most likely industrial grade, 2400mhz. Anybody know where I can purchase this?

Digikey and Mouser seem to offer the newest version, 3200mhz, but the Sage motherboard only supports 2933/266/2400/2133 mhz. Will 3200 mhz even work or cause stability issues?

Thanks for the help.

Yes , the ATP ram Taiko uses is customized per Emile’s specifications as far as I know. Apacer was popular because it used high quality Samsung B-Die chips at one point (known to sound very good),and was easier to obtain without large custom orders.

 

You should be able to use the 3200 with the sage as long as it’s DDR4 and RDIMM you should be all set.

[WC]

On 12/3/2023 at 3:40 PM, WC said:

Long time lurker, first time poster here! I’ve been reading through this thread for a while and trying to learn as much as I can. I’m so appreciative all of the shared knowledgeable and wisdom!

 

I have a problem that I’m hoping this group can help me work through:

I’m trying to use a v3 ULPS I purchased from another forum member to power a Taiko ATX. I’m on an Intel i9 11900k and MSI z490M build currently powered by a HD Plex 300w. The problem is the Taiko ATX lights up with a red error light when I try to power it with the ULPS. It works fine with the Plex.

 

It seems like others experienced this issue and the cause was a voltage swing during startup when using the Hammond 5A chokes. Is this a situation where I should change out the chokes to larger Hammond 195J10’s? If so, would I also have to change any of the capacitors? And would the Mundorf VN180’s be a better substitute for the Hammond Chokes?

 

The specs and a link to a picture of my ULPS are below.

 

One maybe related thing I noticed: the output voltage of the ULPS gradually declines after switching it on. For example, it starts up at ~37.5 volts and is at 37 about a minute after startup and 36.5 a minute after that. Is that normal?

 

 

ULPS:

Soft Start	Hypex
Transformer	Toroidy
Rectifier	Saligny Standard
Capacitors	Mudorf HC 22,000 uF / 80V
Capacitors	Mudorf HC 47,000 uF / 80V
Capacitors	VCAP ODAM 0.1 uF
Chockes	Hammond 159ZJ
Chassis	1NSLA03350N
IEC Inlet	Furutech FI-09(R)
Fuse Holder	Schurter 3101.0320

 

https://imgur.com/a/T4ab7N0

 

 

Just an update in case anyone having a similar issue reads this thread later:

 

I was able to boot my machine with the v3 power supply after replacing the last 47,000uF cap with a 220,000uF and adjusting some of the BIOS settings (reduced cpu voltage through a manual override, fixed RAM voltage to a static level, turned off multithreading and power boost). I'm not sure if those BIOS settings adjustments had a negative impact on sound quality, but my system sounds so much better after upgrading power supplies. It's also running much cooler. 

 

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions in this thread and through DM - y'all most definitely steered me in the right direction! 

[lmitche]

Some of you may be interested in my new post in the Novel thread.