Building a DIY Music Server

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, iCarus said:

Hi,

 

I'm trying to date when DIY streamers based on a PC was first put forward. My assumption is @austinpop or @Nenon will have some idea of the history.

 

One well known forum owner told me (via his moderator) that he invented it in 2018 which I know is narcissistic nonsense.

What do you mean by "DIY streamers based on a PC?"

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, iCarus said:

An Intel Atom, Celeron or earlier PC running a linux distro such as Vortexbox to play flac or other music files via ethernet and a DAC.

That has been around since before this site started in 2007 as Computer Audiophile. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, drjimwillie said:

she looked at me like I had two heads

 

 

That makes two of us :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

New Streacom heat pipes. 
 

https://www.fanlesstech.com/2022/10/streacom-launches-heat-pipes-for-diy.html?m=1

[The Computer Audiophile]

26 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

is the fact that Streacom sells them new or what exactly is new about them?

I'm pretty sure I bought heatpipes like that from Ali a year ago.

 

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32836351489.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.42b879d2NfaizF&gatewayAdapt=glo2nld

Sorry for trying to help people and provide a non-Ali source. No good deed goes unpunished. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, di-fi said:

Chris if you wanted to provide non Ali sources you could have just mentioned in the first place. But thtt,s not the point her. A AS user just happened to have seen the same/similar product a year earlier than you. The comment was not necessary, you are not a victim. Your input is appreciated.

In essence what’s being said is that once a product has been seen, absolutely nothing close to it can be posted without ridicule.

 

That’s just not conducive to any community thriving. It stifles discussions and is a reason people will just not post.

[The Computer Audiophile]

20 hours ago, di-fi said:

I have a problem with Romaz being the audiophile we all know for many years of sharing his subjective experiences (I have various Romaz pages bookmarked) lending his name to QSA Lanedri cables.  He is a leader having many followers. A very inspiring audiophile to follow because of very detailed experiences he shares with the community.

 

Now suddenly he pops up on a commercial WBF page heavily promoting very expensive cables (in the ++ US$ 1000 range) that according to Romaz make a US $200 device sound better than a US$ 30K Extreme (does it sound to good to be true?). Also according to him all those cables sound better than anything else because of a secret cable treatment that Romaz knows together with the owner of QSA. No detailed Romaz style reviews / descriptions and trials this time, a few paragraphs only.

Romaz also seems to have access to all these cables and he can even have his personal cables treated as well at QSA. He also confirmed he designed himself (or was involved in the design of) a few of the new cables. Orders currently seem to come in by the hundreds without listening (30 day trial). Some clients order 5 or 6 cables at the same time adding up to $10k or $20k orders. The new owner, Lanedri, just bought the business in 2021, will he deliver? time will tell.

 

This makes me wonder what exactly is Romaz commercial interest in this? He made it very clear he is sharing his promotional talk in a specific WBF commercial segment paid for by QSA. Confusing for me and apparently also for  @kennyb123&@Blackmorec who he kind of aggressively accused of trying to get to understand this secret cable treatment. Now they, as I was, thought they were having an exchange with the @romaz we all know , but this almost seems an other Romaz (II) strictly talking about the benefits of QSA cables in this commercial segment of WBF and as far as I know not anywhere else where we usually can exchange with Romaz (I). I find this very confusing. It seems to me he used his (well known) name Romaz , maybe unwillingly, to help facilitate the sale of QSA cables. We'll see how this develops, maybe I am wrong but I find it a little awkward. I guess all I am saying;  if someone is wearing two different hats, just be aware. 

 

And sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but my way of  

Thanks @seeteeyou

 

I have no clue what's going on behind the scenes in this specific case, but I know that cable manufacturers frequently roam forums, messaging people, giving away or selling cables at steep discounts to those people, in exchange for public posting about the cables. Some times the agreement is unspoken, and more based on a history of behavior on display by certain people who post about products. 

 

Again, I have no clue about this specific case.

[The Computer Audiophile]

New Streacom SG10

 

https://www.fanlesstech.com/2023/05/exclusive-streacom-sg10.html?m=1

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

28 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Chris, Streacom also has these available...

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/look-ma-no-fans-case-passively-dissipates-600w-of-heat

No way! Seems like they were inspired by something :~)

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 hours ago, SK8 said:

This is my own build to have Nenon V3 plus Sage 621e in a single box. Slot one is long enough for a full size PCI, reserved for the Taiko DAC card in future.

Amazing!

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

What is delidded , please?

Here’s some good info. 
 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/how-to-delid-your-processor,38720.html

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, AngeloVRA said:

Delidding and Direct Die Cooling for an Intel 9900K in an SOTM SMB-Q370 motherboard with HDPlex passive cooling 

 

After reading some previous queries/posts on using delidded CPUs in a music server, my curiosity got piqued and I decided to try it for myself. Im sharing below some pics of the process and things to watch out for.

 

 

I used the 9th Gen direct die kit from RockItCool.

 

Note that the RockItCool Intel backplate turned out not to be useable as it was too thick.

 

 

 

It's fairly easy to use the delidding tool. You will feel the torque on the tightening bolt get loose as the lid breaks its silicone glue layer and slides off a bit.

 

 

 

I applied some acetone with a cotton bud to soften the grip of the glue and scraped it off with a bamboo stick.

 

 

Once the glue has been cleaned off, I taped the cpu as shown and used RockItCool's "Quicksilver" solder remover, a much easier and cleaner process compared to mechanically scraping it off.

 

 

Used Fritz non-abrasive creme to polish the CPU die then cleaned it off with some acetone+cotton buds.

 

 

For protection against possible shorts from wayward, accidental Liquid Metal overflow, I applied some TG Shield conformal coating to insulate the exposed contacts.

 

 

I then removed the standard spring loaded CPU mounting clip and installed the RockItCool Direct Die Frame. To protect the pins, make sure to place the CPU on the socket before working on removing and installing the frames. As a precaution, I also applied some conformal coating on some motherboard SMD components that was very close to the direct die frame.

 

 

Next come the "TRICKY" part. Removing the IHS lid results in the top of CPU die being about 1.5-2mm lower than before. There are then several things that prevented the HDplex Copper Cooling Block from lowering itself to make full contact with the CPU die. 

1. The spacers are too high
2. Parts of the HDplex copper cooling block will hit some capacitors/inductors on the MB
3. The head of the screws attaching the mounting flanges to the copper cooling block.

 

1st step is to file off some material from the spacers to reduce its height from 10.2mm to 8.5mm. Make sure to make all 4 spacers the same height to increase your chances of making full, level contact with the CPU die.

 

 

 

 

Next, identify and mark the areas of the copper cooling block that hits any of the MB components. I then filed off the offending material. Make sure to put some protective tape on the surface that will make contact with CPU before working on it.

 

 

And the last bit was figuring out that the head of the screws attaching the mounting flanges to the copper cooling block was too tall, hitting the direct die frame and preventing full contact with CPU die (which will prevent the MB from booting up!) I simply replaced them with screws that had a slimmer head.

 

 

Bare copper absorbs some of the gallium in the liquid metal thermal compound. This could potentially "dry out" the contact and result in sub-optimal heat transfer. I applied the RockItCool Quicksilver solder remover compound which has a lot of gallium, heated up the copper block with my heat gun and let it cool down several times over the course of 1 day. I then cleaned off the compound and lightly polished the contact surface.

 

 

I applied Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut Liquid Metal on both the CPU die and the Copper Cooling block. Make sure to take extra care tightening the mounting bolts evenly a little at a time.

 

My 1st 3 attempts resulted in the MB refusing to boot up. But after doing the corrective steps listed above, it promptly booted up and has been working flawlessly ever since.

 

 

There is a substantial temp improvement when the CPU is running at 100%. (note: 100% CPU stress test was run for only 1-2 minutes when the above pics were taken). But then I don't play music with CPU at 100%

 

 

With the stock IHS, my CPU temps were routinely +10 to 12C above ambient room temp when playing music normally.

After delidding and direct die cooling, it is about +7 to +9C above room temp so its only a modest 2C improvement.

 

After a week to let the new Conductonaut Liquid Metal and Kryonaut Extreme thermal paste bed in, subjectively Ive netted some SQ gains in more nuanced transient and dynamics, further reducing that remaining slight treble glare, and improvements in pace & rhythm and spatial rendition.

 

This was mostly an experiment done out of curiosity.

Is it worth it? For me it is, though YMMV

Is it risky? IMHO For the Intel 9900K, Not really as long as you work methodically. The main hurdles are ensuring the cooling block can make full, level contact with the CPU die.

 

As always, just sharing to give back to this great community.

 

I’m in awe. Your methodical approach, creativity, documentation, and end results are amazing! Thank you so much for this!

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 hours ago, Mops911 said:

Can we also record defeats here ;-) I think I just killed a i9-13900T deliding it...

 

 

😳

[The Computer Audiophile]

26 minutes ago, dctom said:

 

 

Anyone investigated the new sotm pci express tX-USBx10G USB CARD ?https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/tx-usbx10g/

 

 

I have one on the way. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, dctom said:

 

do you think it will be ok with AMD Ryzen cpu?

I don’t see a reason why it wouldn’t be ok with an AMD Ryzen. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 hours ago, AngeloVRA said:

Building a DIY chassis for my DIY Music Server

 

The chassis is an often overlooked component of DIY music servers and LPS. The big boys Extreme and Pink Faun have substantial, stiff, fit for purpose chassis..... that look beautiful too!  And there are no similar commercially available chassis.

 

Having been unsatisfied with currently available PC chassis from Streacom, HDPlex and even the Taiko DIY chassis, a few months ago I decided I would design and  3D model my own and go ahead and have it CNC manufactured.

 

This DIY post is intended to share the design thought process (not perfect), various technical issues, and solutions when making my own DIY chassis.

 

 

Where do I begin?

Firstly, I realized from previous projects that you would need to provide detailed STEP files and drawings  for the CNC facility to make your parts. This necessitates using some kind of 3D CAD/CAM design modelling software. After a bit of time comparing various options, I settled on Autodesk Fusion360.

If you are already proficient in 3D CAD/modelling software app, you’re in luck, else be prepared for a learning curve which is enjoyable though requiring what I’d call “more than a bit of time and effort”.

2D drafting apps such as Front Panel Designer are much easier to learn but are limited to one plane. For example, it is sufficient to design a rear panel until you decide you needed to threaded screw holes for the top of PCIE brackets which is on another plane.

2D drafting apps also cannot simulate assembly of the  various panels that will make up the chassis so you won’t be able to see how they fit together. Nor will you be able to effectively communicate to the CNC facility how the different parts are supposed to fit together. You will end up reordering the same part with various revisions/corrections which will end up costing you “more than just a bit”.

 

 

In my own journey, I designed the chassis in the following order:

-        Rear Panel

-       Top Panel

-       Front Panel

-       Heatsink

-       Bottom Panel (I dreaded measuring for the various motherboard standoff locations) 

 

I limited my chassis use case to :

-       SoTM smb-Q370 motherboard

-       2x stacked SoTM SCLK-EX boards

-       Taiko ATX DC-DC converter

-       34v Regulated DC power supply to the Taiko ATX

-       12v Regulated DC supply to the CPU

 

Rather than starting with a blank slate and researching the various standards for PC cases, I used my existing HDPlex H5 chasssis as a starting point.

 

 

My priorities were :

1.     The chassis must be stiff and sturdy, not requiring further bracing and reinforcement

2.     It must be fit for purpose. It must address EMI shielding and no more additional extensive drilling and thread tapping

3.     Aesthetically nice.

 

Rear Panel

 

 

Above: the rear panel of an HDPlex H5 V3

Design points:

1. The existing panel is flimsy and thin. My previous project which entailed simply replacing it with a 10mm thick panel proved beneficial to SQ, adding solidity and more precise imaging among others. The top of a PCIE bracket is 12mm long, so the rear panel will have to be at least 12mm thick.
2. The area above the PCIE brackets is a wide open space through which EMI can leak in/out. Covering that area would require another 3mm. Total thickness for my rear panel design is thus set at 15mm
3. Neither the bottom panel nor the top panel is screwed onto the rear panel which in my opinion compromises its stiffness. The area underneath the I/O panel is so thin (only 4.6mm as shown in pic)  and further compromises its structural rigidity. I decided that I would add 3mm thickness to that area. This meant that
   • I would have to raise the MB another 3mm. Existing MB standoffs are 7mm.  simple change to 10mm standoffs would accomplish the task. This improves cooling of the bottom of the MB.
   • In addition, I would also have to raise the PCIE slot openings by the same amount 3mm
4. The area on top of the PCIE slots where the PCI brackets are supposed to be screwed into is relatively thin at xx mm. Drilling threaded holes into it would puncture the bottom part which I thought would visible detract from its aesthetics. I decided I would beef it up and make it to thicker at yy mm by reducing the height of the PCIE slot opening by the same amount.
5. The bottom of PCIE brackets are supported from behind by the rear edge of the motherboard except those additional PCIE brackets to the right. Such additional PCIE brackets are usually used to hold connectors for clock inputs and DC power in for various cards, etc. Inserting the plugs usually cause the floppy PCIE brackets to flex inwards and doesn’t give one a solid feeling feedback. If the top of the brackets are secured by a screw, not a big deal. But in some cases e.g., with a Taiko DIY chassis, the bracket is not secured with a screw and the entire bracket can just come loose and fall back inside when one tries to plug in a clock cable or a DC cable.
   • In addition to threaded holes for the top of the PCIE brackets, I added a locking bar to secure the bottom of PCIE brackets
   •  I added 2 of my favored Jaeger chassis connectors for the 34v and 12v DC power supply input.
6. In the HDPlex H5, the thin rear panel is affixed to the heatsinks with externally visible bolts which I didn’t like. I opted to use internal “embedded” L brackets to affix the rear panel to heatsink. 

   • 

   •  L brackets would be unsightly if simply placed on top of the panels. Embedding them into the metal would be more visually appealing and helps torsional and shear stiffness of the joint.

   • Structurally, 1 screw per leg would be enough but just to be sure I would put 2 per leg. The thinner panel, the heatsink would be 10mm thick. Embedding the 3mm L-bracket leaves 7mm which nets me 5-6 thread depth for the screws. This is about 1.5x the diameter of an M4 screw which is perfect for the job.

   • 2x M4 screws with 8mm countersunk holes mean that the L- bracket had to be at least 20mm wide.

   • 

   •  

7. Datasheet for the Jaeger connectors show that the connector hole is 22 mm and 4 holes for M3 screws arranged in a 28 mm circle
   • 

8. The existing PCIE slot openings were only 13.2 mm wide which prior experience adding BNC chassis connectors to PCIE brackets show was just a bit too narrow. Thus this was expanded to 15.5mm which is also the space needed to be able to insert a Telegartner RJ-45 connector. Standard PCIE brackets are 18.5mm wide so we will have 1.5 mm latitude on each side.

9.  

   For stiffness, the top panel will be screwed onto the rear panel at 4 points, 1 at each end and another 2 over the IO panel. The bottom panel will similarly be screwed into the rear panel at 4 points, albeit asymmetrically, one at each end and 2 under the PCIE slot area.

10. Aesthetic choice was to fillet (round) the left and right edges of the rear panel at a diameter of 10mm. Similarly the I/O panel cutout was filleted at 2mm and the PCI slot dividers at 1mm

Top Panel

 

For the top panel, I simply followed Taiko’s lead with the Extreme that the vent holes would actually be tubes if the panel was thick enough... Ergo! EMI waveguides. This reduces EMI leakage as only the “straight” waves get through at full force. The waves that hit the walls of the tube are greatly diminished after they have bounced off the walls of the tube several times. This theory appealed to me.

Problem was:

-       How to draw the holes in a concentric circle pattern

-       With all the holes the same distance from each other

This required a bit of thought. It is not the only method but here is what I did (short version)

-       Assume we want 3mm holes with center spacing of 6mm

-       Draw concentric circles with each circle 6mm larger in radius than the previous.

-       For each concentric circle. Knowing the radius, you can calculate the circumference. Divide that by 6mm and you will get the number of holes you need to place around that circle to get close to 6mm spacing.

-       In my case, it was 6 holes for the 1st circle, then 12, 19, 25,31. 37.44 and so on. The top panel has over 2,500 holes.

 

Tedious, but here’s the result... 10mm Top Panel

 

The left and right edge areas will be covering the top of the heatsinks. And we need to open up that area so the heat can be expelled upwards from the heatsink fins.

My aesthetic choice for this is a set of triangular holes that form a truss-like structure. Easier choice would be circular or rectangular vent openings.

 

For the top panel. I decided to use counterbore M4 screws which would yield a stronger bond than when using countersunk screws. For aesthetics, there are no screws over the top of the front panel.

 

HEATSINKS

 

There are 4 design parameters to consider with heatsinks:

1.  The length of the heatsink front to back. My chassis design objective to have internal depth of 340mm. This shall be the same as the length of the heatsink

2. The thickness of the base of the heatsink determines its ability to spread the heat to other fins. The HDplex heat pipes are 6mm which will require 5.6mm deep grooves which will leave 4.2mm cover if we use 10mm as our base thickness

 

 

3.  Fin Thickness and Fin Spacing: After much research, I settled on 2.5mm fin thickness at 7.5mm center spacing which leave a 5mm vent space between fins. This netted me a whopping 44 fins. For comparison, HDPlex has 17 fins and Streacom FC-10 has 20 fins. The 5mm space between fins meant that the mounting plates that press the heatpipes firmly into the groove can no longer be screwed from the outer side of the heatsink. By Using allen head screws, the mounting plates can be screwed in from the inside.

4.  Fin Height: My target was for my chassis to have an internal height of 100mm so the hetsink base will have the same 100mm height. However, to aid the flow of heat convection currents, I wanted 3 mm space between the top of the fins and the top panel. Same goes for the bottom panel. Hence the fin height will be net 94mm high.

 

For best heat radiation characteristics, black would be my best choice for color.

The heat pipe grooves were also located much higher up in heatsink so that all the grooves would be at the same level or higher than CPU heat block to let gravity aid in the flow of cooled liquid back to the CPU.

Another aesthetic choice was to fillet round the exterior corners of the fins by 5mm diameter.

I decided to put an L bracket at all of the 8 internal corners so that if either the top panel or bottom panel is removed, the chassis is still fully structurally sound.

 

 

Bottom Panel

 

The critical part here are the locations of the standoffs for the motherboard.

There are several online sources for the positioning of motherboard mounting points for all the different sizes of MB.

 

Here is a pic of my layout of MB standard mounting points. These set of points will then have to be positioned onto the bottom panel so that the I/O panel fits neatly into the rear panel I/O cutout and PCIE cards line up with the rear panel slot openings and that there is no gap between the rear panel and the PCIE brackets.

 

In my case, I just took guidance from my existing HDPlex chassis and positioned them at the same locations. Its easy to make a mistake here. I made a lifesized printout of my bottom panel design and overlayed my motherboard over it to make sure the mounting points all lined up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unlike the Top Panel, I wanted to be able to screw in the bottom panel into the underside of the Front Panel so the front of the bottom panel was extended out 12mm, leaving an ample 3mm cover.

 

Power Switch: My HDPlex power switch was located on the front end of the right heatsink. Since my new heatsinks only had 5mm space between fins, I decided to locate the 12mm diameter power switch near the front edge of the bottom panel. It would be a stealth location and there would be a soft blue light glow under the chassis from the switch.

 

Mounting holes for chassis feet: I added 4 M5 threaded holes at the 4 corners of the bottom plate to affix my favored Arya Lab Revopods.

 

Vent holes: With the bottom panel, I didn’t need the geometric pattern of the Top Panel. I settled for a simple rectangular distribution of 3.5mm vent holes

 

Thickness: for structural rigidity and "EMI waveguides", the bottom panel was also set at 10mm thickness.

 

 

Front Panel

 

The least complex part is the Front Panel. Yet arguably it has the most visual impact. Some would say the Top Panel has more visual impact.

 

Since the rear panel was 15mm, I decided to balance it out and also have a 15mm Front Panel. Design aesthetic choices:

-       I made up a logo that appealed to me and drilled it through the entire thickness of the front panel with a facility to add an LED power-on indicator if I opted to.

-       I made an elliptical groove across the lower third of the front panel and envisioned it to have a matte fine sandblasted finish while the large flat surface will have a matte fine-brushed natural aluminum finish, a two-tone texture to go with two-tone color of natural aluminum panels with matte black heatsinks.

-       Similar to the rear panel, the left and front vertical edges of the front panel was filleted/rounded with a 10mm curve. The curve and sides of the front panel will also have a matte fine-sandblasted finish.

 

Assembly Simulation

 

 

 

Having the facility to simulate assembly of the chassis and inspect/measure will save you $$$ in discarded prototypes due to errors easily overlooked when looking at individual panels.

You would also need to send the assembly model step files to the CNC facility so they can assist in checking the parts for fit.

 

The above are 3D drawings of the chassis design.

Here are some pics of the chassis as actually realized.

 

 

Above: Front and rear panels attached to bottom plate. Visible are standoff locations for motherboard, SCLK-Ex and Taiko ATX DC-DC converter as well as threaded holes for feet.

 

Above: Heatsinks in place

 

Above: 15mm rear panel

 

  

 

    

Weighs a hefty 13 kg. The front panel alone weighed in at 4kg

 

 

 

 Above with its matching chassis for Linear Power Supply

 

 

 

 

Above : pictured with full installation of:

- SoTM SMB-Q370 motherboard

- Intel Optane

- Taiko ATX DC-DC converter

- Two SCLK-ex PCBs stacked on top of each other

- SoTM SNI-1G lan card

- SoTM USBx10G

- Two tX-UsbHubInt (for double reclocking of USB signal

- 4x BNC clock input connectors for my Habst clock cable from a Mutec Ref10 120SE

 

Above: Heat pipes re-bent to fit the new height of the groove. All heat pipes are now above or at same level as the CPU heat spreading block.

 

And there she is!

 

 

 

 

And there it is. My personal dream chassis for my music server finally realized after several months of work on it.

Aside from the visual appeal, I had a rare opportunity to listen for SQ differences between the 2 chassis having simply transplanted the entire server 100% without any new wire or cable or new connectors. The sound I got was just like the chassis: Solid body yet airy, more elegance in the treble, smooth yet textured, more natural timbre, and lastly more stable and precise rendering of the 3D space. Usual caveats apply: in my system, to my ears.

Was it due to the stiffness of the chassis?

Or was it due to better EMI shielding?

Others would probably say it's simply expectation/confirmation bias.

I don’t know and I can't say, but I love it.

 

It was a lot of work but I believe I wouldn’t have gotten the results I got in another way.

 

Next will be building up the chassis for its matching LPS.

 

Many thanks to everybody who post here and keeps on sharing their tips and techniques and makes this such a wonderful forum.

 

Members of this community continue to amaze me everyday. I absolutely love this!

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

Did I just make a mistake or does Taiko Audio really use a motherboard with fans? Where did Taiko Audio post this?

 

Pro WS TRX50-SAGE WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

Shouldn't be too hard to use without fans, given Taiko's ability to craft custom cooling solutions.