Building a DIY Music Server

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

@Johnseyeare you sure you want to have an upgrade this expensive on that MoBo? More direct power phases matter IME,

Thumbs up to this - I really don’t think a MSI B550 Tomahawk is the best option for considering an expensive clock upgrade to.

 

Once you have a clock upgrade (whichever MB you decide upon) you will have to decide through listening which PCI connection sounds best to you, but as a general rule CPU direct is the way to go.

 

Plenty of MB recommendations here on Audiophilestyle.

[Johnseye]

2 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

@Johnseyeare you sure you want to have an upgrade this expensive on that MoBo? More direct power phases matter IME,

 

Assuming you didn't mean me. 

[MarcelNL]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

Assuming you didn't mean me. 

haha, no indeed, sorry for the mixup! was trying to type @JackJohnson316 but that apparently was beyond my abilities ;-)

[Nenon]

4 hours ago, JackJohnson316 said:

Hello All,

 

This is my first post in Audiophilestyle, so I'm excited to hear the responses. I'm building my first DIY server, and I ordered a motherboard (MSI B550 Tomahawk) and a ocxo clock upgrade from Pink Faun. They are replacing the chipset clock on the motherboard with the ocxo clock.

 

My question is if I should put my ethernet and usb PCIE cards on the slots connected to the chipset or the cpu? I've read that it is generally better to connect your PCIE cards on the slots linked to the cpu; but in this case I'm having the chipset clock replaced with a better ocxo clock. So should I still connected my ethernet and usb PCIE cards to the slots linked to the cpu, or the chipset, since the chipset now has the better clock?

 

Thanks for your advice!

 

When I was replacing motherboard clocks, I prefered the USB card to be CPU direct in every case.

I liked the network card on a chipset PCIe, but that will probably depend on the motherboard, chipset used, and other factors. 

You should listen to the different variations and pick what you like the most. 

[Nenon]

I've heard that the Taiko DIY chassis is ready. I should be getting some photos and details to post soon. 

Initial feedback is that it looks great but it's not cheap to manufacture. Keep you posted! 

[Exocer]

19 minutes ago, Nenon said:

I've heard that the Taiko DIY chassis is ready. I should be getting some photos and details to post soon. 

Initial feedback is that it looks great but it's not cheap to manufacture. Keep you posted! 

Really exciting news! We’ve waited a while for this 😎.

[JackJohnson316]

Super excited for Mattijs at Farad Power Supplies for his new website, along with the new Super10 and the SuperATX. There are a lot of great options now for the DIY Music Servers. https://www.faradpowersupplies.com

[flkin]

On 6/2/2022 at 3:19 AM, JackJohnson316 said:

I was told that the chipset clock has to be changed first, and then the cpu clock is optional. Given budget restraints I went with only upgrading the chipset clock, which is what I believe Nenon also did on his AMD build, but correct me if I am mistaken. I was also recommended this less costly MSI motherboard over an ASRock B550 by PF. I tried to look at PF 2.16 Ultra photos online to see what motherboard they are using and it looked like the one I chose… but I’m not 100% sure. PF is still modifying my motherboard, so I could always add the cpu ocxo clock, but I will probably save the money for the usb or I2S card ultra clock. Thanks for the great advice. I look forward to finding out more. 

My Pink Faun 2.16x (2018) uses the ASRock 370x pro gaming board. I had 3 PF Ultra OCXO clocks installed. The cpu and board clocks were installed on their own boards with regulated supplies underneath the motherboard as I made a special request for them to be placed as close as possible to the original clock points. 
 

As the clock boards are discrete and self contained, they may outlast your motherboard as time goes on and you upgrade your board to something more recent. Expensive as they are, perhaps you can see consider them as a longish term investment which makes it easier to justify…😄

 

Or you could consider the more affordable Connor Winfield OH200 OCXO clocks on offer from PF (used to be, not sure now) as an alternative.
 

I have reviews for my 2.16x and the PF Ultra clocks here in AS, links are in my profile page.

[JackJohnson316]

1 hour ago, flkin said:

My Pink Faun 2.16x (2018) uses the ASRock 370x pro gaming board. I had 3 PF Ultra OCXO clocks installed. The cpu and board clocks were installed on their own boards with regulated supplies underneath the motherboard as I made a special request for them to be placed as close as possible to the original clock points. 
 

As the clock boards are discrete and self contained, they may outlast your motherboard as time goes on and you upgrade your board to something more recent. Expensive as they are, perhaps you can see consider them as a longish term investment which makes it easier to justify…😄

 

Or you could consider the more affordable Connor Winfield OH200 OCXO clocks on offer from PF (used to be, not sure now) as an alternative.
 

I have reviews for my 2.16x and the PF Ultra clocks here in AS, links are in my profile page.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully I can just update my motherboard when the new AMD cpu’s come out with the DDR5 ram, and reinstall the same Pink Faun ocxo onto the new board. It looks fairly simple to do, just making sure it’s the same frequency as the old clock. I double checked the photos online and I’m still pretty confident I chose the same motherboard used in the PF 2.16 ultra. If not then I can always update later. I’m also not sure if the 2.16 ultra uses one ocxo clock or two. Either way I figure it’s good to start out with one clock and upgrade later if need be. I’m saving the money for a better power supply… either the Taiko dc-dc atx, or the Farad superATX. 

[Nenon]

3 hours ago, JackJohnson316 said:

either the Taiko dc-dc atx, or the Farad superATX

 

I haven't seen or listened to the Farad superATX, and I am writing this post as a DIY enthusiast, not as someone affiliated with Sean Jacobs, but I think this:

 

And this:

are incomparable on so many levels :).

 

I have nothing against the commercial ATX power supplies from companies like HDPlex, JCAT, Farad, etc. but in the spirit of DIY if you can build yourself a DIY unregulated LPS and get the Taiko ATX, look no further for powering your motherboard/CPU. NICs, USB cards, and other low powered devices still sound better with a good regulated LPS, and there are plenty of those on the market. 

 

On that topic, a company that has been making custom SMPS has been trying to convince people that their SMPS is better than the ULPS to power the Taiko ATX. I am always very careful picking my words and using phrases like "YMMV", "it sounds better in my system", etc. But this time I will be as straightforward as I can be. No guys, it's not!

 

I have no interest in Taiko Audio, and as far as I know they are not making any money on the Taiko ATX. I believe that means that when the first batch of the Taiko ATX modules is gone, they might be gone forever. Same thing will likely happen with the DIY chassis that I expect to be available in the coming week or so. Reading how many things they are working on (battery power supply, NICs, router, switch, DAC(?), XDMS, new chassis, government grants for efficiency, innovation, etc. and many more - at least 17 different projects), I can only predict that they will not have any resources available to support DIY with various parts in the coming years. So, my advice is to get the parts they are providing now (Taiko ATX and a DIY chassis soon), because it's likely that they will abandon the DIY part of their business. 

My guess is that the Taiko strategy will change over time. Instead of building specialized parts for the DIY community, they will focus on upgrades to the Extreme. If we are lucky, we may see the traded parts sold back to the DIY market. But that's just a guess. Time will tell... 

 

[elan120]

7 minutes ago, Nenon said:

I believe that means that when the first batch of the Taiko ATX modules is gone, they might be gone forever.

It will be sad to see this happen.  I might pick up an extra one as spare.

[Nenon]

4 minutes ago, elan120 said:

It will be sad to see this happen.  I might pick up an extra one as spare.

It's just my guess. I have no inside info. But if something is not profitable and the company is so busy with limited resources, add to this the supply chain issues and skyrocketing prices, and I can only see it as a logical next step. 

 

When Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs released their first one-step record (https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/9162101?ev=rb) I decided to buy an extra copy and keep it for 5 years and then sell it. It ranges from $2300 to $6000 now. Not bad.

That rarely happens with technology, but you never know... that extra Taiko ATX may cost more if there is enough demand and it's not being manufactured. 

[Dev]

Have you guys really thought about how much have to spend over time on DIY ? I keep wondering these things. Apart from the fun of DIY, I would assume many would also want to save money. There are a lot of good servers and steamers these days, besides some of the network DACs these days sounds phenomenal. Over time the DIY route might come close to commercial offering. Something to think about.

[RCDingen]

50 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

 

I have nothing against the commercial ATX power supplies from companies like HDPlex, JCAT, Farad, etc. but in the spirit of DIY if you can build yourself a DIY unregulated LPS and get the Taiko ATX, look no further for powering your motherboard/CPU. NICs, USB cards, and other low powered devices still sound better with a good regulated LPS, and there are plenty of those on the market. 

 

On that topic, a company that has been making custom SMPS has been trying to convince people that their SMPS is better than the ULPS to power the Taiko ATX. I am always very careful picking my words and using phrases like "YMMV", "it sounds better in my system", etc. But this time I will be as straightforward as I can be. No guys, it's not!

 

 

 

Hi Nenon,

 

What do you think the Taiko ATX is?

It's a switching DC to DC converter.

So the principle is the same as a switch mode power supply.

I think the biggest advantage is a good unregulated power supply and a short cable tot the Taiko DC to DC en short cables to the MB.

All compleet lineair ATX power supply's use very long cables, so the low output impedance is gone after the long cables.

It's also better to keep the transformer coil and 2 capacitors in the external case and put the rest of the capacitors next to the Taiko DC to DC converter to keep the impedance as low as possible close to the Taiko.

 

Rob 

 

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, RCDingen said:

What do you think the Taiko ATX is?

It's a switching DC to DC converter.

So the principle is the same as a switch mode power supply.

Don't forget it's also using GaNFets and it's switching at a very high frequency (in the megahertz range), unlike most other switching mode power supplies that switch in the kilohertz range. 

 

 

2 hours ago, RCDingen said:

All compleet lineair ATX power supply's use very long cables, so the low output impedance is gone after the long cables.

True but most of them sound pretty bad too. 

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Have you guys really thought about how much have to spend over time on DIY ? I keep wondering these things. Apart from the fun of DIY, I would assume many would also want to save money. There are a lot of good servers and steamers these days, besides some of the network DACs these days sounds phenomenal. Over time the DIY route might come close to commercial offering. Something to think about.

Definitely! It depends on how you look at this, though.

If you are like me and consider the DIY part as a hobby and you are enjoying that, then those are hours are free. Otherwise they add up very quickly and the end product can be very expensive, even more than commercial offerings.

[MarcelNL]

Guess Taiko can always licence the ATX design out, if it's just production and sales.

 

@Dev I also thought about the cost of DIY...I could opt to buy an Extreme, but I like to tinker and learn what makes digital sing...and even with the sunk cost of DIY I'm a bit ahead of the cost of buying new. some time ago most high end stuf would have a 30% manuf markup and some 40% reseller markup and add VAT on top...so calculate what the cost of goods is when you buy something and it becomes clear that DIY CAN pay off...(manuafacturer buys parts wholesale , so they end up with a better margin) 

Until this point with some smart buys and some not so smart buys I'm into the game with some 6-7K, and with the ultra OCXO and Solarflare X2522 I'd dare run a comparison with f.e. an Extreme.

[MarcelNL]

2 hours ago, RCDingen said:

Hi Nenon,

 

What do you think the Taiko ATX is?

It's a switching DC to DC converter.

So the principle is the same as a switch mode power supply.

I think the biggest advantage is a good unregulated power supply and a short cable tot the Taiko DC to DC en short cables to the MB.

All compleet lineair ATX power supply's use very long cables, so the low output impedance is gone after the long cables.

It's also better to keep the transformer coil and 2 capacitors in the external case and put the rest of the capacitors next to the Taiko DC to DC converter to keep the impedance as low as possible close to the Taiko.

 

Rob 

 

That is comparing apples with pears, not all linear PSU's are equal, some are more equal than others ;-) Same for ATX modules...in the end it's supplying the same voltage and curent/power, it's HOW that is delivered that matters and in my experience the Taiko ATX is pretty special.

[MarcelNL]

3 hours ago, elan120 said:

It will be sad to see this happen.  I might pick up an extra one as spare.

I want the new one I saw in munich, that is a true BEAST of an ATX !! Appeared to have a sortof modular approach and it's the BIG brother of the current ATX...  

 

 

[elan120]

2 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

I want the new one I saw in munich, that is a true BEAST of an ATX !! Appeared to have a sortof modular approach and it's the BIG brother of the current ATX...  

 

 

From Taiko as an improved DC-DC ATX?

[MarcelNL]

4 minutes ago, elan120 said:

From Taiko as an improved DC-DC ATX?

I'f I'm not misstaken , YES... they had a board with 3-4 new products on show in the room where they had the Alsyvox.

The router circuitboard, what I think is a DC-DC convertor..I saw a picture on this site but could not yet find it on the quick perhaps @The Computer Audiophile can find them...

[MarcelNL]

found it...

 

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?13293/page31  2nd and 3rd picture is what I think is a DC-DC (the molex connectors seem to indicate that and supported by the number of individual voltage rails...

[Downtheline]

Isn't that dc/dc for the new battery supply? 

[MarcelNL]

9 minutes ago, Downtheline said:

Isn't that dc/dc for the new battery supply? 

Dunno, in the end every DC-DC needs a power IN, so I'm fine if this is for a battery PSU...I'll happily feed it whatever voltage it eats from a linear unregulated PSU as long as it sounds even better feeding my MoBo than the current one :-)

[Dev]

26 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

found it...

 

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?13293/page31  2nd and 3rd picture is what I think is a DC-DC (the molex connectors seem to indicate that and supported by the number of individual voltage rails...

 

I am speculating but I do not think its for the DIY crowd. Its their next gen BPS. Their is enormous talk over at WTBF.