EtherREGEN: All posts about firmware moved here

[Iving]

6 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Sometimes it takes a bit of back and forth to get a handle on if something is truly better, worse, or the same—as well as to identify any trade offs.  And with many actual advances, the change can reveal the true nature of the other components in the system and recordings—for better or worse.

Such is the realm that the EtherREGEN works in...

 

This ^ I agree.

I shall certainly listen for a few days. If I still have reservations I shall contact you privately. If not I shall post further glee here.

[Iving]

I noticed that Dante Controller had got its knickers in a twist following the firmware update. Also RedNet Control only intermittently recognised my D16 AES. I cannot say what kind of explanation these could have been for my earlier (post-firmware) listening notes. I have reset everything now and all the lights are green and things are as they should be. I can't whack up the volume because there are too many people around. I shall have to wait until tomorrow to see whether the overall tone is still a little unsettling.

 

But I have listened to a few tracks that don't punch out "grunt" (a word I noticed earlier in the thread and which seems apposite). Joan Armatrading's "Dry Land". Ed Bruce's "Why Can't I Come Home". Tim Buckley's live rendition of "Pleasant Street/You Keep Me Hanging On" from Dream Letter. These are emotional tracks - and the more so for me for biographical reasons. The lump in my throat that usually I can stifle compels me to retract my "soul" remarks! (even if I save my "body" for later.)

 

I maintain that this firmware update has produced a *considerable* change in SQ for me. Mine is an ethernet-based system - I play local files thru Dante. The ER feeds a Focusrite interface then DAC. No USB anywhere. All I am saying is that I wonder whether my system is peculiarly sensitive to the ER. Either way - *for me the firmware update delta is as great as if not greater than the ER per se delta* - and I do not exaggerate.

 

What I am struck by is what one might call *accuracy*. I can't fault the music at modest volumes.

 

Tomorrow I'll crank things up with my usual diet of rockabilly and some other stuff I know really, really well - stuff that makes me dance. Then I'll know whether I need to miss that "bass". In all living memory I can feel my system's bass *somatically* - in my feet at the listening position (as an elephant "hearing" a love call across the savannah). I love to literally feel music and I don't use headphones. (My Snell Type A IIIs emanate not sound but *wind*). After the firmware update I could not feel that bass in my feet or in my body in the same way - and there was no mistake. Probably that change was *not* something to do with errant network settings. Perhaps, after all, I just haven't ever heard accuracy like this (at home) to recognise it. We shall see ...

 

(... and if I don't - perhaps I should sell up, buy a boombox and have a holiday.)

[Ehsu]

5 hours ago, Iving said:

 

i love the transparency and detail

i don't like the loss of body - the music is technically better but has lost its soul

I'll give it a while - see if there is a cooking effect

otherwise i'd like to understand how *this* firmware change could have such dramatic effects

and what options may lie ahead apart from return

Hi @Iving I was one of the first few testing the update and I had similar observation just after the update. But at the same time, I had some issue with my ears that was a bit blocked from time to time so I could not be sure. Now, my ears are much better so I gave it a good listen. What I found is that ER is more balanced top to bottom so the mid range sounds almost recessed compared to the forward mid before the update. I think bass is actually firmer now. initially I thought bass was a bit bloated and not as controlled. Weird to have such big swings after the update!! So I blame my ears 🙂 I will give it more time to make my final judgement. 

[Jud]

3 hours ago, Iving said:

I noticed that Dante Controller had got its knickers in a twist following the firmware update. Also RedNet Control only intermittently recognised my D16 AES. I cannot say what kind of explanation these could have been for my earlier (post-firmware) listening notes. I have reset everything now and all the lights are green and things are as they should be. I can't whack up the volume because there are too many people around. I shall have to wait until tomorrow to see whether the overall tone is still a little unsettling.

 

But I have listened to a few tracks that don't punch out "grunt" (a word I noticed earlier in the thread and which seems apposite). Joan Armatrading's "Dry Land". Ed Bruce's "Why Can't I Come Home". Tim Buckley's live rendition of "Pleasant Street/You Keep Me Hanging On" from Dream Letter. These are emotional tracks - and the more so for me for biographical reasons. The lump in my throat that usually I can stifle compels me to retract my "soul" remarks! (even if I save my "body" for later.)

 

I maintain that this firmware update has produced a *considerable* change in SQ for me. Mine is an ethernet-based system - I play local files thru Dante. The ER feeds a Focusrite interface then DAC. No USB anywhere. All I am saying is that I wonder whether my system is peculiarly sensitive to the ER. Either way - *for me the firmware update delta is as great as if not greater than the ER per se delta* - and I do not exaggerate.

 

What I am struck by is what one might call *accuracy*. I can't fault the music at modest volumes.

 

Tomorrow I'll crank things up with my usual diet of rockabilly and some other stuff I know really, really well - stuff that makes me dance. Then I'll know whether I need to miss that "bass". In all living memory I can feel my system's bass *somatically* - in my feet at the listening position (as an elephant "hearing" a love call across the savannah). I love to literally feel music and I don't use headphones. (My Snell Type A IIIs emanate not sound but *wind*). After the firmware update I could not feel that bass in my feet or in my body in the same way - and there was no mistake. Probably that change was *not* something to do with errant network settings. Perhaps, after all, I just haven't ever heard accuracy like this (at home) to recognise it. We shall see ...

 

(... and if I don't - perhaps I should sell up, buy a boombox and have a holiday.)

 

Hi @Iving. First, thank you for the Joan Armatrading suggestion.  She has always been a favorite.

 

After reading your initial comment about the bass, today I listened to music at normal levels for the first time with the post-update ER in the system. (I updated last night, but my wife was in bed.) I made sure to play two tracks with bass I can feel, as you say - Ruby Tuesday, by Colvin and Earle (Shawn Colvin and Steve Earle) and Amen, from Leonard Cohen's Old Ideas album.

 

My subjective impression of my system's sound was that nothing at all has been lost of the physical "punch" or "grunt" of the bass, and that along with this there may even be slightly more clarity/tone in the very low bass register.

 

Something else I noticed when listening to Amen was the "breathiness" of the trumpet's intonation, which hadn't been evident before. So although I was reluctant to jump on the "improved sound" bandwagon just due to not wanting to allow power of suggestion to affect my opinion, I must say I think it's very possibly true.

[soares]

Instruction were very clear and it just took me a couple of minutes to install the new firmware. Thank you Alex! 
Now the sound. The difference in my system is not subtle. The soundstage is bigger and the clarity increased substantially. But at the same time it seems that the sound is lighter. English is not my mother tongue and as such I have difficulties to explain my preliminar feelings. I regret not have made a copy of the original firmware.

Alex, from what I read, most of us didn’t have any problems with the original firmware. The firmware was not faulty at all.  I am using a Zen MKIII as server and a uR as end point. Between the two an oM and eR. I could also use my STi5   just for HQP purposes. All working fine. I understand that from your point of view giving the users the choice to opt for one or the other firmware would potentially lead to hardware repairs due to the amount of experiences that some of us would engage. However, it is not necessarily the case as the differences are notable. 
So, while I really  appreciated how quickly you and John has provided a solution to the problem some of us were facing, I would equally appreciate if you could provide us with the old firmware for the ones that due to a system particularly transparent might prefer a darker sound! 

Cheers Jorge

P.s. Please don’t tell me as you did earlier that one  might return eR if It is not satisfied...😀

[Jud]

5 minutes ago, soares said:

Instruction were very clear and it just took me a couple of minutes to install the new firmware. Thank you Alex! 
Now the sound. The difference in my system is not subtle. The soundstage is bigger and the clarity increased substantially. But at the same time it seems that the sound is lighter. English is not my mother tongue and as such I have difficulties to explain my preliminar feelings. I regret not have made a copy of the original firmware.

Alex, from what I read, most of us didn’t have any problems with the original firmware. The firmware was not faulty at all.  I am using a Zen MKIII as server and a uR as end point. Between the two an oM and eR. I could also use my STi5   just for HQP purposes. All working fine. I understand that from your point of view giving the users the choice to opt for one or the other firmware would potentially lead to hardware repairs due to the amount of experiences that some of us would engage. However, it is not necessarily the case as the differences are notable. 
So, while I really  appreciated how quickly you and John has provided a solution to the problem some of us were facing, I would equally appreciate if you could provide us with the old firmware for the ones that due to a system particularly transparent might prefer a darker sound! 

Cheers Jorge

P.s. Please don’t tell me as you did earlier that one  might return eR if It is not satisfied...😀

 

Hello, @soares. If I might suggest: Please play some tracks you are familiar with that have substantial very low bass you can feel. (If you have Qobuz I can suggest two.) Play those, and also see if you have something with double bass or cello playing. I don't know if your system will be like mine, but if it is I think you will hear there is no lessening of bass response and in fact perhaps some additional clarity.

 

Of course if that is not what you hear, then hopefully someone will provide you the firmware file you would like. I just wonder if people are taking the further absence of "mud" or "rumble" for less real bass when that is not the case, at least in my listening.

[soares]

Oh thank you so much Jud. I will try tomorrow. I have Qubuz and Tidal, so It will be a pleasure to hear your suggestions.I agree with you that I am experiencing additional clarity, and it’s fantastic. The voices are more real. I know it sounds crazy and  but it seems that I am missing is not the bass response but somehow a kind of darker tonality... I am sorry. I really do not intend to cause any misunderstandings.  The eR is really a wonderful device with both firmware. It’s just that my system is perhaps too transparent. Let’s see if Alex will be willing to consider having available the original and the new one. From a marketing perspective I think that would be really incredible 👍

[Jud]

11 minutes ago, soares said:

Oh thank you so much Jud. I will try tomorrow. I have Qubuz and Tidal, so It will be a pleasure to hear your suggestions.I agree with you that I am experiencing additional clarity, and it’s fantastic. The voices are more real. I know it sounds crazy and  but it seems that I am missing is not the bass response but somehow a kind of darker tonality... I am sorry. I really do not intend to cause any misunderstandings.  The eR is really a wonderful device with both firmware. It’s just that my system is perhaps too transparent. Let’s see if Alex will be willing to consider having available the original and the new one. From a marketing perspective I think that would be really incredible 👍

I’m not going to post links, because mine are for Qobuz in the US, and I don’t know if you access Qobuz from another country.

 

 The tracks are:

 

- “Ruby Tuesday,” from the album Colvin & Earle (hi res version) by Shawn Colvin and Steve Earle.

 

- “Amen,” from the album Old Ideas (hi res version) by Leonard Cohen.

 

You should be able to feel some of the bass notes in each of these. At least in my system, I don’t feel them any less now than I did before the change.

 

In Amen, you should also be able to hear some “breathiness” in the intonation of the trumpet. I wasn’t noticing that before the firmware change, so I think there may be even more clarity and information available from the music after the change.

[Ehsu]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Instruction were very clear and it just took me a couple of minutes to install the new firmware. Thank you Alex! 
Now the sound. The difference in my system is not subtle. The soundstage is bigger and the clarity increased substantially. But at the same time it seems that the sound is lighter. English is not my mother tongue and as such I have difficulties to explain my preliminar feelings. I regret not have made a copy of the original firmware.

Alex, from what I read, most of us didn’t have any problems with the original firmware. The firmware was not faulty at all.  I am using a Zen MKIII as server and a uR as end point. Between the two an oM and eR. I could also use my STi5   just for HQP purposes. All working fine. I understand that from your point of view giving the users the choice to opt for one or the other firmware would potentially lead to hardware repairs due to the amount of experiences that some of us would engage. However, it is not necessarily the case as the differences are notable. 
So, while I really  appreciated how quickly you and John has provided a solution to the problem some of us were facing, I would equally appreciate if you could provide us with the old firmware for the ones that due to a system particularly transparent might prefer a darker sound! 

Cheers Jorge

P.s. Please don’t tell me as you did earlier that one  might return eR if It is not satisfied...😀

What I found is that the whole frequency range from top to bottom is flatter than before so it gives you a different presentation than pre-update. I did notice both top and bottom are more pronounced now so mid range appear less forward. My system is not bright so I have no issues with the top end but I can see why some people in a brighter system may find it a bit much. Still fantastic sounding piece of kit but somehow I am still not sure if I prefer the older firmware or new update after 4 days.

[Iving]

This morning (once the house was clear) I could let rip with Klimax Kontrol at 60. Pesky neighbours outside the house peering in as they pass by. Who do they think they are. Never mind.

 

My first concern was how *listenable* the system was or was not. Iris Dement sounded wonderful. Joan Armatrading too. (It may seem I never get past D checking. I do like loads of music E-Z.)

 

Dante Controller and RedNet Control let me swap PC and ER as "source" to D16 AES without complaining:

i.e. PC > ER > D16 > DAC vs. PC > D16 > DAC.

In other words I could do some A vs. Bs fairly rapidly (without having to reboot PC or D16 etc).

 

A representative track will illustrate. Jackson Browne's "Looking East" is an old favourite. It opens with a driving and deep beat. It is somewhat Spectoresque. System upgrades and/or tweaks do not yield a discernible change readily. I listened with the ER first. Very satisfying. As I already know and understand the ER opens one heck of a window on the music. That aspect of its performance still astonishes me. I figured that if there was anything *wrong*, as it were, I would hear it somewhere in the mix. Not so. As yesterday I am struck by what I would refer to as *accuracy*. Switching the ER out, I had compassion for my own "ears" yesterday: even this morning I swear that the *reverberation* of that driving beat was greater - and there was something nice about it too. It has mojo. You want to get up and high five it. But the music was not even half as *sophisticated*. The ER lets me hear the instrument lines in this track - and it is utterly reassuring that it is not an artificial spaciousness or detail actually accounted for by noise artefacts plaguing digits. The ER's fruit is incredibly pure. Its consumption obliges a different take on the music. The firmware change to me is much greater than adding the ER in the first place - when all that reverberation was still present.

 

The White Buffalo's "Avalon" is another driving "wall of sound" that can be discerned similarly. With the ER there is more detail and an utterly praiseworthy open window on the music. It is unpolluted and it is "better" - certainly technically. Arguably it is less deep, less solid and is missing something (from its body). But I am not going to press that point any further.

 

The "new" (i.e. post-firmware) ER is perfectly listenable. "Perfectly" may be the mot juste.

*My* understanding is that it is phenomenally *accurate*.

The firmware delta is out of this world.

I can hear nothing at all "wrong".

On the contrary my take is that the SQ catapult is just seismic quantitatively.

The qualitative aspects require adjustment for me in a way that other components or tweaks do not or have not.

 

I do not want to relinquish the ER at this time (in case any of you were thinking of bribing me).

 

Now I have to go back and rediscover my whole music collection. Hello Jackson. Goodbye life.

[soares]

17 hours ago, Ehsu said:

What I found is that the whole frequency range from top to bottom is flatter than before so it gives you a different presentation than pre-update. I did notice both top and bottom are more pronounced now so mid range appear less forward. My system is not bright so I have no issues with the top end but I can see why some people in a brighter system may find it a bit much. Still fantastic sounding piece of kit but somehow I am still not sure if I prefer the older firmware or new update after 4 days.

Yes, I definitely think that it is the mid range that appear less forward as there was an increase on the top range, at least. After this holiday I need to take a serious listening. Thanks. 

[Evo1668]

Ok had a few days now on the new firmware for the ER. I don’t think I actually really needed it, as I didn’t suffer any dropouts, although I did keep losing my KDS off the network. I rebooted all the network components up from scratch and the connection stayed rock solid.  But hey the upgrade is a SQ must. 
if you think there is less bass with this upgrade, quite simply you’re wrong. There is Exactly the same low level bass, but even better clarity and texture along with the rest of sound spectrum. Listening to Malia’s excellent album “Covergance” produced and contributed to with Boris Blank (Yello) fame.....the album has shit loads of low bass throughout - I thought I had heard every bass note, synth, percussive element, mix effect, texture, voice on this album....post ER firmware upgrade.....clearly not.....if you want to hear bass within bass? Listen to this album - oh and play it loud! 

[jandersonhill]

1 hour ago, Evo1668 said:

if you think there is less bass with this upgrade, quite simply you’re wrong

 

To be fair, I don't think we can rule out that different systems might show different results. My system isn't showing the above symptoms (in fact, I think the EtherRegen is superb), but I don't think we can rule out that different people might hear different results, dependant on their system.

[octaviars]

8 hours ago, Evo1668 said:

Listening to Malia’s excellent album “Covergance” produced and contributed to with Boris Blank (Yello) fame.....the album has shit loads of low bass throughout

 

I often use this album and the song Magnetic lies when I test stuff in my system. I cant say that the bass has changed with the new firmware in my case.

[Avalfa]

Firmware update worked perfectly and it definitely improved the sound quality in my system. 

Ps Alex and John, the PCB is really nice and beautiful maked! Wonderful product!

[andresz]

I loved the ER and have been raving about it as the best thing ever. I got the Firmware upgrade and installed it a day ago and have to say I don't like it at all. On my rig, there is an over mellow, less real sound signature and yes, the bass is different. It doesn't own its space as per the Mark 1 Firmware. It is swallowed up a bit in the mix and has less of its own life and timing. There is a change in attack and decay (still airy) but now muddled and that sense of toe tapping and energy has dropped off. The crispiness of a steel string sounds indistinct and its all too smooth.

 

HT doesn't like it either with a noticeable drop off in video naturalness and a more uneven and bombastic dolby. Treble texture and its ability to float in the mix is really compromised.  This added greatly to the "you are there".

 

Not sure what is going on but to my ears the magic I heard isn't there. I can only think that the guys have spent months and months calibrating this great piece of equipment and then an eleventh hour change may have not had as much on the ground beta.

 

Luckily there is a roll back file.  I miss the original badly. 

 

Just a bit of a warning that my experience (rig is ultra high end) has not been good with the upgrade. I didn't have connectivity issues.

 

 

[Iving]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:12 AM, andresz said:

Not sure what is going on but to my ears the magic I heard isn't there. I can only think that the guys have spent months and months calibrating this great piece of equipment and then an eleventh hour change may have not had as much on the ground beta.

 

Luckily there is a roll back file.  I miss the original badly. 

 

Just a bit of a warning that my experience (rig is ultra high end) has not been good with the upgrade. I didn't have connectivity issues.

 

Thanks for the alternate angle on the firmware SQ effect.

I would *love* to understand what has happened "underneath the bonnet". In particular whether the SQ delta can in any way be attributed to what is effectively "tuning". To me the sound is reminiscent of what I heard when I tried a particular USA pre-amp. It was refined but "lifted" and lacked thump. I was happier with what I had before.

Please PM me the roll back file or ask for my contact info via PM. Thank you

(Or Alex if he would be so kind could make the original available on request or for download.)

[andresz]

Sure - happy to help. I imagine the guys were working for months getting the sound just right and this tweak is more of a reaction to a tech problem that may have sounded ok in transit.  Guys need to be careful here that they don't make wholesale changes without getting a sense of what is going on across systems. I was shocked how badly V2 works on HT re vision and dolby. 

[Ehsu]

13 minutes ago, andresz said:

Sure - happy to help. I imagine the guys were working for months getting the sound just right and this tweak is more of a reaction to a tech problem that may have sounded ok in transit.  Guys need to be careful here that they don't make wholesale changes without getting a sense of what is going on across systems. I was shocked how badly V2 works on HT re vision and dolby. 

I asked Alex last weekend for original version but he reckoned that I need more time. I had some ear pressure issue in those few days too so I was not sure. unfortunately the other beta testers for the update did not share the same view as mine so Uptone guys went ahead with the mass roll out. But my ears are all good now and I can say for sure that updated version is better in hifi terms perhaps but less " music ". I did commented on it was better ( more balanced top to bottom etc.. ) a few days ago. But somehow I still do not gel with the later version. I cant put my fingers on any particular area that caused this feeling though 😞 

I also noticed that video streaming has less "punch" than the original too. 

[_JL_]

The new firmware is definitely more reliable, presumably by fixing the EEE issue. I can now cascade two ERs without issue. However, as a few others have reported I also find the original firmware to sound better. In comparison, the new firmware is too smooth and not as alive sounding as before. Even the video quality seems to be flatter.

 

Would Alex/John be so nice to offer a version of the firmware that just fixes the EEE issue and kept the rest the same? This sort of thing often is system dependent and obviously many likes the new firmware's sound so if both EEE-fixed firmware versions can be made available it's actually not a bug, it is a feature!

 

Please kindly consider it. Much appreciated!

[Ehsu]

11 minutes ago, _JL_ said:

too smooth

Exactly the same words popped into my head in last hour of listening while I was looking for answers why the new version doesnt resonate with me. It seem to lose a bit of transient speed which makes music a bit less " live ". 

 

[Dutch]

38 minutes ago, _JL_ said:

Would Alex/John be so nice to offer a version of the firmware that just fixes the EEE issue and kept the rest the same? This sort of thing often is system dependent and obviously many likes the new firmware's sound so if both EEE-fixed firmware versions can be made available it's actually not a bug, it is a feature!

I already asked the same thing a few days back. Alex’ reaction is here: 

Hopefully he’ll reconsider now that more people are reporting the same.

 

[Iving]

31 minutes ago, Dutch said:

I already asked the same thing a few days back. Alex’ reaction is here: 

Hopefully he’ll reconsider now that more people are reporting the same.

 

 

imho the way forward is not so much to have a "tunable switch" as to give first batch users the option of reverting to firmware v1 (but without the EEE problem) pending resolution of issues surrounding firmware impact on sq (qualitative aspects of sq so fundamentally altered merely correcting an EEE problem and/or improving "transmit and receive performance of the PHYs in the switch for the RJ45 jacks on the ‘A’ side").

 

[soares]

Luckily I am not the only only one here that is disappointed with the V2 firmware. I had the opportunity to express my views on the thread “eR: installation, use,...”. I really hope hope that Alex will make available the V1 firmware. 

3 hours ago, andresz said:

Hi - I have asked Alex for it, he mentioned it is available. Yes, totally agree that original is way more engaging and toe tapping. My system shows up the slightest change in everything. I listened to a few dozen tracks, watched a movie and didn't like what I heard and saw. In a nutshell that wonderful sense of texture of treble and organics, the placement of instruments as real instruments and not hi fi render that gave me that "we are in the room" was totally absent on Mark 2 Firmware. The strength of V1 is the ability to attack and decay correctly in space. I stream YouTube concerts and it really stands out that V2 isnt rendering the cues as well as V1 when you watch and listen. It is more like an veil that may suit bright systems but sounds unnatural on mine. May be different on varying systems but the difference for me is profound. I am switching back as soon as the roll back file comes.

 

[jos]

2 hours ago, Ehsu said:

Exactly the same words popped into my head in last hour of listening while I was looking for answers why the new version doesnt resonate with me. It seem to lose a bit of transient speed which makes music a bit less " live ". 

 

Too much of a good thing?? Can be; I guess it depends on your system. I love it in my already smooth system!