EtherREGEN: All posts about firmware moved here

[Puma Cat]

My system sounded with ER sounded wonderful with V1 and now sounds wonderful with V2: natural-sounding, spacious, quiet, sweet and engaging with a real sense of "listening ease." As another friend of mine who recently got his ER said, there is sense of "rightness to the harmonic structure" that is really lovely. 

 

Life's too short to get caught up in minutiae; I'm not geekin' out over code, PHY chips, flip-flops, or firmware revs. I'm movin' on and just listening to, and really "enjoying the music", to paraphrase Hans Beekhuyzen. Those of you in the SF Bay Area are welcome to swing by and have a listen to the Harbeths.

 

Cheers. 

[andresz]

Agree Puma - I don't care about code or measurements. No time for ASR as that is the extreme end of denialism.  I do know whether I am engaged or not and whether I enjoy music more or less. That's the only test and it is really easy to determine.  It is very interesting in computer audio for example how there is a lot of code tinkering aka Jplay etc.... Windows registry tinkering etc... that has a strong impact on sound. I found out a lot about ethernet cables trying many. Copper, silver, filtered, grounded etc.... they all have a different signature which then translates to the experience. I am using Shunyata Sigma and if any doubt re Ethernet cable differences, get one (or a few) of these. The effect on video and audio was an ER moment. (I wont say that in ASR as they will carry on in their ignorance).  We are always learning.....open minds. 

 

I think we can agree that there is a difference in SQ re V1 and V2. If we agree here then the topic is about - well what do we mean by it being different. Do some audiophiles prefer one Sq to the other? If so, which one. And why. It is an area of interest - not from a tech point of view as I couldn't care less but the impact it has on enjoying the music. We are unable to measure most of these things now other than ear-brain. One day, as Alex said we may find answers that can be white papered. 

 

Hans is absolutely right. 

[Cable Monkey]

I think that for those who are waiting for delivery of ER, from my perspective it is very simple. For me V1 didn’t work. It was broken. Whatever I was hearing, no matter how wonderful was plagued with interruptions and devices simply falling off my network once the ER got warm. Nothing damages emotional engagement more than Bjork being interrupted mid flow while lamenting her latest relationship mishap! You do not want V1 firmware. When it doesn’t work it is a total downer, and even though I figured out a way to get mine much more listenable by moving the device it was unhappy about I put V2 on, restored my preferred config and have simply left the device on since (six days). And what I am hearing now is far more representative of the ER than those early moments when I was excited about the possibilities then later disappointed by the reality of V1.

[so-no-mah]

For those longing for the original ER firmware. might I suggest that you consider the fact that in order to do the update you had to power it down and disturb and re-disturb all the cables in that part of the chain.

 

I don't know about you guys (gals too, I hope), but when I upset the apple cart in such a fashion it always takes some time for all and sundry to settle in.

 

Having said that, I found the latest firmware to be an improvement right out of the gate. Thirty or so hours in it's even mo bettah!

 

I suggest we all give it some time....

[Iving]

8 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

This is not true, the changes were NOT made for SQ purposes at all.  Here is the full story on the technical side of this, do with it as you will.

 

Quite a while ago while working on the opticalRendu I noticed the switch chip (the same switch chip was being used at that time) the connection to the CPU was going up and down, many times. I could not figure out what it was. Then an errata sheet came out for the switch chip which talked about the EEE bug, I wrote the code for the workaround on the main processor and fed that to the switch chip, It worked.

 

The EtherREGEN uses the same chip as I had originally on the oR (I picked it for the ER, but used it for prototyping on the oR since I knew it well). At this point the ER did not exist in the final form, it was several different boards trying out different parts of the system. I had not seen the EEE problem at all, probably because I was not testing it with anything that supported EEE. After I finally got the functionality for the ER working and I had the whole system up and running I wrote the code to send the workaround to the switch chip, it was much more complicated because I had to do it for 4 ports instead of one, it was also written for a completely different processor and environment. Somewhere along the line I made a mistake in that code that didn't actually implement the workaround, but I didn't know that at the time. Since I couldn't make the EEE problem happen, (it only happens for some boards and some equipment), I didn't know it wasn't working. Neither my testing, nor Alex's or the beta testers have the problem.

 

The problem only showed up when the ER went out into the field with enough different configurations that some people started having the problem. Remember that at this point I thought I had the workaround for the EEE stuff in every ER out there. It took some time and a lot of looking at the code to realize there was a bug in the code. While in the process I found a new errata sheet for the switch chip that added some new problems for the chip and workarounds for them.

 

At this point I fixed the EEE workaround code and found out that that it actually CAUSED dropouts every time an RJ45 A port connected. The connection would go up, then down, then back up. I could not figure this out, it didn't make any sense. I then tried adding the workarounds for the other two errata issues, both of which were supposedly only for rare "corner cases" which should only occur for long cables. One was for transmit, it increased the transmit amplitude very slightly, and the other was for receive which increased the probability of receiving very weak signals. Viola! The up down up behavior went away. I listened to it for quite some time with no problems, but did notice a small improvement in SQ, I still have no idea why.

 

Well that is it. This was all done in an attempt to improve connectivity issues. The sound change was not something that was intended, it was not something that was "tuned" it just showed up as a result of adding the workarounds for problems that already existed in the chip. I still have no idea how these changes could be affecting SQ.

 

John S.

Thank you a millon times

This post is fundamentally helpful to me and my attitude.

Maybe v1 firmware could be made available to those who want it - and we need to know whether it is safe to interchange cf. bricking.

I powered my system down but will want to listen again now. God gave us powers to think.

The discussion all the same could in the fullness of time harmonise with/make sense against new technical discoveries you make - ER/SQ.

There is no fire to put out.

Thank you again

[Ehsu]

3 hours ago, so-no-mah said:

For those longing for the original ER firmware. might I suggest that you consider the fact that in order to do the update you had to power it down and disturb and re-disturb all the cables in that part of the chain.

 

I don't know about you guys (gals too, I hope), but when I upset the apple cart in such a fashion it always takes some time for all and sundry to settle in.

 

Having said that, I found the latest firmware to be an improvement right out of the gate. Thirty or so hours in it's even mo bettah!

 

I suggest we all give it some time....

I already have the new firmware for a week. The first impression from the first note was very positive. I could not find any faults. Then after 2hrs of listening, I thought there was something missing. I wasnt tapping my toes and just could not connect with my music for some reason. Seriously, I still do not understand why the new sound could not give me goose bumps like the original. I am still searching for answers. Is it my imagination or honeymoon ending? Is it because it was too smooth? I just dont know without going back to original firmware. I usually dont do A/B comparison if things are very obvious. But I just cant pin point what caused this feeling. If I put my critical listening hat on, everything seems to be better. Darker background. More details etc... But I just dont connect with the music as well as the original either listen seriously or casually 😞   

[Bernstein]

1 hour ago, Ehsu said:

I already have the new firmware for a week. The first impression from the first note was very positive. I could not find any faults. Then after 2hrs of listening, I thought there was something missing. I wasnt tapping my toes and just could not connect with my music for some reason. Seriously, I still do not understand why the new sound could not give me goose bumps like the original. I am still searching for answers. Is it my imagination or honeymoon ending? Is it because it was too smooth? I just dont know without going back to original firmware. I usually dont do A/B comparison if things are very obvious. But I just cant pin point what caused this feeling. If I put my critical listening hat on, everything seems to be better. Darker background. More details etc... But I just dont connect with the music as well as the original either listen seriously or casually 😞   

So your statement is: more analytical, more detail, darker meaning more “true to the source”? If this is the conclusion I am all in! I love this because it gives you the ability to tune room/convolution filter in a very neutral system. Very good! 
 

Some here mentioned that they think it is more HiFi...for me these are many opinions, but not a clear direction and no common opinion. 

[Ehsu]

28 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

So your statement is: more analytical, more detail, darker meaning more “true to the source”?

I never claim true to the source! How do you ever know if something is true unless you were actually “ the source “. I’m only talking in relative terms comparing to original version. Well, maybe you made a good point here because I don’t like analytical sound. Is that why I enjoy less than before? I am still searching for answers. I never tell people here not to go for an ER here! By all means, steal one if you can find it, v1 or v2. It is really special. I just personally enjoy v1 slightly more. That’s it. 

 

39 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

 

Some here mentioned that they think it is more HiFi...for me these are many opinions, but not a clear direction and no common opinion. 

That is true because it’s very personal and you can’t rely on measurements. Just use another car analogy. I have 2 fast cars. One is German and another is Italian. German car is precise and faster on track. However, it’s a little soulless achieving that faster track time and it doesn’t give me good feedback through steering wheel etc. I like it but not in love with it. The Italian is slower on track and a bit flawed. But I love every sec driving it. Good driver connection and full of emotions. Some prefer the fastest car but some just like to have a good time doing it. 
I’m not talking about ER. I’m talking about your point above. 

[Bernstein]

4 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

I never claim true to the source! How do you ever know if something is true unless you were actually “ the source “. I’m only talking in relative terms comparing to original version. Well, maybe you made a good point here because I don’t like analytical sound. Is that why I enjoy less than before? I am still searching for answers. I never tell people here not to go for an ER here! By all means, steal one if you can find it, v1 or v2. It is really special. I just personally enjoy v1 slightly more. That’s it. 

 

That is true because it’s very personal and you can’t rely on measurements. Just use another car analogy. I have 2 fast cars. One is German and another is Italian. German car is precise and faster on track. However, it’s a little soulless achieving that faster track time and it doesn’t give me good feedback through steering wheel etc. I like it but not in love with it. The Italian is slower on track and a bit flawed. But I love every sec driving it. Good driver connection and full of emotions. Some prefer the fastest car but some just like to have a good time doing it. 
I’m not talking about ER. I’m talking about your point above. 

If it is more revealing the V2 is my friend  To make it sound “right” to your ears there are other measures (room acoustics, equalized ala Floyd Toole etc.). Thanks for the explanation!

[jos]

So, everything comes down to someone’s personal taste in combination with the gear they own. I have a Chord Qutest DAC with 4 kinds of flavours (filters). Very clever from Chord Electronics, so you can combine it with your own gear to your own taste. I use this DAC with the white incisive filter, others with the orange (warm) filter, and so on. I think I like the white filter most, because I have a warm amplifier. The warm filter is just to warm for my taste. So, I can completely understand those people who like the V1 firmware (much) more, and are now disappointed with the V2 results. I think they own the right to go back to firmware V1, if possible without the bug. On the other hand: Uptone Audio should go further with selling only V2, avoiding all kinds of problems. This is just my opinion.

[emailists]

What I found about the new firmware immediately upon first listen was that the flutes on a sufjan Stevens track stood out more in 3D relief.  Can’t remember effects noticed on other parts of the spectrum.  

 

When i did the initial a/b testing with the Er in and out I had a medical isolator in the system (which ended up hurting the sound) and the original firmware.

 

Now I have to go back and listen with and without the Er to hear what it’s actually doing.

 

Sonically I’m really enjoying what I’m hearing from the ER but the revelation in sound has revealed the large problem (in my jriver/ Mac Pro tower system) playing flac files.  The flac sounds receded, smaller and slightly distorted compared to when I expand them to WAV files.

 

Even aif doesn’t sound  quite as good as WAV in my system.  Strange.  

 

But in general I’m finding that tracks I used to skip since they were harsh sounding are suddenly very listenable.  Things like massed strings are now not monolithic but made up of individual voilinists all subtlety doing their own thing.

 

[Dutch]

OK now there’s a separate topic and I might find some time tomorrow..

@Superdad

I still haven’t updated; is it possible, when I save the ‘current.uf2’ file (before copying the ‘V2’ file) to copy it back if&when I want to return to ‘V1’ (perhaps after renaming it first)?

[Ehsu]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

A friend has been visiting.  He just walked into the room and spoke positively about the “pulse” of my system.  I chuckled and told him that some on this forum are saying the new firmware is killing the ability to tap their toes.  He chuckled saying he could feel it in the other room.

Well, if your friend has not heard the prior version then his opinion is totally irrelevant though. I have only been talking about minor differences. V2 is still very good in its own I reckon.

Our own preferences and experiences are different. My wife and I are dancers and have been performing, competing at national level in the past. We always try to have good emotional connection to the music so we have better musicality. In short, we can be very sensitive to emotional changes than some people from years of training. The way I run listening test is how a change in gears or cables affect my connection to the music I am listening. Never much about soundstage, tone or any of these hifi terms. Maybe good timing and rhythm give us that connection? Maybe.

[soares]

Alex, John and you all,

 

The issues I had experienced with the v2 to a point I was considering to sell my eR are over. 
 

Following John advice to see if there was a problem with the the ER fiber connector I disconnected and connected again. The same disappointment. 
 

I decided then to disconnect the fiber and use just the eR With Ethernet to my uR. At the same I was obliged to keep just one of my Ethernet port from my zen ( the lan one). And ... the music was suddenly giving me the same pleasure I got when I received my eR.  
 

I then reconnected everything as it was before using the 2 ports from my Zen and the fiber port of eR with uR. Everything was there. 
 

I don’t have any explanation to what was happening with the sound after upgrading to v2. My humble guess is that a software problem in the eR or in my zen was impacting the sound as the power, fiber and Ethernet were well connected. Somehow disconnecting fiber and using Ethernet solved the problem.  Perhaps John or others my come up with some explanation. 
 

This being said, I thank you all for your patience and support, specially John and Alex. And I no longer need the v1 firmware. 

Warmest regards,

 

Jorge

[kennyb123]

20 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

Well, if your friend has not heard the prior version then his opinion is totally irrelevant though. I have only been talking about minor differences. V2 is still very good in its own I reckon.

Our own preferences and experiences are different. My wife and I are dancers and have been performing, competing at national level in the past. We always try to have good emotional connection to the music so we have better musicality. In short, we can be very sensitive to emotional changes than some people from years of training. The way I run listening test is how a change in gears or cables affect my connection to the music I am listening. Never much about soundstage, tone or any of these hifi terms. Maybe good timing and rhythm give us that connection? Maybe.

Fair point about my friend not hearing it before.  

 

When things are framed within the context of “emotional connection”, the focus is on the listener and their reaction.  This can have the benefit of stifling dissent as there is no longer a common frame of reference.  It’s also a terribly unreliable measurement.
 

The other night I had a strong emotional connection to connecting a $30 Bluetooth speaker to the Amazon Echo Show 5 in my bedroom.  Terrible sound relative to my big rig, but I still smiled and started signing along to “Drive My Car”.  I allowed myself to ignore the sound quality and just enjoy the music as that Bluetooth speaker improved upon the sound of the Echo Show and delivered the best sound I’ve yet had in my bedroom.  That I could make the choice to allow myself to enjoy bad sound quality shows that an “emotional connection” is something our minds and attitude have a big say in.  I think it extremely unfair and bordering on irresponsible to spoil the otherwise wonderful product launch based on finicky emotions - particularly when you haven’t done A/B tests and are solely basing things on memory - that can also be unreliable.

[André Gosselin]

6 minutes ago, soares said:

then reconnected everything as it was before using the 2 ports from my Zen and the fiber port of eR with uR. Everything was there. 

Do you mean OpticalRendu connected to the fiber port of EtherRegen? Or are you using an opticalModule between the ER fiber port and the ultraRendu ?

 

Please clarify

[Ehsu]

22 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 I think it extremely unfair and bordering on irresponsible to spoil the otherwise wonderful product launch based on finicky emotions - particularly when you haven’t done A/B tests and are solely basing things on memory - that can also be unreliable.

Well, that also apply to guys thinking v2 is definitely better though.... you also relied on memory...

and like I said many times since day 1, I asked for v1 so I can go back to compare and make a definite judgement. How can you say for sure this and that is better when you didn’t A/B it? Very irresponsible too I reckon. 
I don’t rely on 1 listening session to say if there is emotional connection or not. I listen 1-2hrs everyday at different time of the day. I totally agree with what you saying about mood etc. but it’s not how I evaluate equipments. 

[kennyb123]

10 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

How can you say for sure this and that is better when you didn’t A/B it? 

I was very careful to say that there may have been an improvement.  

[Ehsu]

On 11/24/2019 at 3:00 AM, Ehsu said:

2hrs after firmware update. No dropouts so far. But to be honest, my last dropout was 3 days ago so time will tell.

However, I am not sure whether there is any improvements in SQ. Perhaps there is bigger soundstage? Perhaps better separation and imaging? Perhaps bass become a bit bloated for my liking? I thought it is slightly more hifi than music now. I was not tapping my feet as vigorously as before. Perhaps I was just too tired? Perhaps......

 

Either way, I think the differences are too minor to be 100% certain. I wonder what others ( unlucky or lucky few experienced dropouts ) think about this update?

 

Perhaps its time for bed 😞 Way past 2am for critical listening!

@kennyb123 What are you accusing me of? You want to read my first impression above? I was the original tester of the firmware last weekend and I said many “ perhaps” including it could be myself ok? Maybe you confused me with some extreme comments? I have empathized many times that changes are minor but personally I prefer to go back to v1 to be certain about my findings.

I still think it’s very minor differences but I would love to be able to go back to double check. I have always been careful and responsible with my comments. Just remember, we are talking in relative terms and v2 is still better than any switches I used. Just thought v1 is slightly better than v2 in areas that I focus on

[kennyb123]

12 minutes ago, Ehsu said:

@kennyb123 What are you accusing me of? You want to read my first impression above? I was the original tester of the firmware last weekend and I said many “ perhaps” including it could be myself ok? Maybe you confused me with some extreme comments? I have empathized many times that changes are minor but personally I prefer to go back to v1 to be certain about my findings.

 

I wasn’t trying to criticize a particular person.  I was criticizing the “emotional connection” argument - particularly when used without the ability to A/B.  I apologize for seeming to pick on you specifically.  I had been bothered by a few posts where there was a claim of lost toe tapping after the upgrade.  That you backed this with possible explanations was exactly the right tact to take.

 

[Ehsu]

On 11/27/2019 at 12:13 AM, Ehsu said:

I was wrong about the latest firmware update.... It did not lose any musicality at all. Its better everywhere slightly. It was my ears!! Sorry, Alex and John. I just realised that I had some issue with my ear or ears in last few days 😞 It was partially blocked like living in a vacuum from time to time in last few days. It comes and go, never experienced this in my life. I hope that its not a sign of losing my hearing......

Anyway, I had a good listen tonight when my ears are clear and music I heard was full of life!

@kennyb123 I also said this a few days ago.As you can see, I still think v2 is good. But I still would like to go back to v1 for a listen as I still think there is more emotional connection to v1. Like I said, I could be wrong with v2 but just like to double check. Cant get rid of memories of music enjoyment I had with v1. I think v2 is more balanced so the mid range is not as pronounced maybe? I am still searching for the answers 

[soares]

1 hour ago, Ehsu said:

Well, that also apply to guys thinking v2 is definitely better though.... you also relied on memory...

and like I said many times since day 1, I asked for v1 so I can go back to compare and make a definite judgement. How can you say for sure this and that is better when you didn’t A/B it? Very irresponsible too I reckon. 
I don’t rely on 1 listening session to say if there is emotional connection or not. I listen 1-2hrs everyday at different time of the day. I totally agree with what you saying about mood etc. but it’s not how I evaluate equipments. 

Well said!

[soares]

2 hours ago, André Gosselin said:

Do you mean OpticalRendu connected to the fiber port of EtherRegen? Or are you using an opticalModule between the ER fiber port and the ultraRendu ?

 

Please clarify

Bonsoir André, 

Zen mkIII (streamer port - Ethernet) to oM and then fiber to eR. 
eR (port B - Ethernet) to uR

uR (usb) to iR (usb) to Dac (Oppo 205)

Bien à toi,

Jorge

[Ricardo007]

On 11/27/2019 at 4:50 PM, Superdad said:

 

That is not going to happen. We are not making a "tunable" switch!

The new firmware code results not only in fixing of the EEE issue, but it improves both transmit and receive performance of the PHYs in the switch for the RJ45 jacks on the ‘A’ side. It is technically—and sonically—better. Period. 

What is EEE? And associated bug?

[JohnSwenson]

11 minutes ago, Ricardo007 said:

What is EEE? And associated bug?

Go to post number 2 in this thread and click on the link. That takes you to UpTone's blog page. The second entry describes what is going on.

 

John S.