HQPlayer4 EC modulator tips and techniques

[craighartley]

9 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

9900K is safest route to go.

 

It handles DSD256 with EC modulators and DSD512 with non-EC, fine.

 

All without seperate GPU.

 

Depends slightly on which filter you use though: it won't do DSD256 with EC modulators using Closed-Form 16M.

[Gato]

Hello,

With: iMac/Roon->PC machine(i7-7700K, JCAT NET Card FEMTO) / HQPlayer(v 4.3.3) Upsampling to DSD512->USB(SOtM tX-USBexp PCI express USB 3.0 with sCLK-48.0)->ISO REGEN / UltraCap LPS 1-2->T+A DAC8DSD.

Since a few month (november - december 2019?), I have the following situation: When I power up the systems and begin to play music everything sound very good but after 2 to 3 hours of listening I can hear random "pop" noise coming out of the speakers. The sound is always good but those random "pop noise" are becoming more and more frequent (first every 3 to 4 minutes and then every 30 to 60 seconds).

If I power down the systems wait about 1 or 2 minutes and power them up and play music, those random "pop noise" are still audible.

If I power down the systems and come back, for example, the next day and I power on the systems and begin to play music everything sound very good (no "pop" noise) but after 2 to 3 hours of listening I can hear random "pop" noise coming out of the speakers. The sound is always good but those random "pop noise" are becoming more and more frequent. ... And so on.

But today after entering in the random "pop noise" phase and without power down the systems, in HQPlayer settings, if I go with "...Upsampling DSD256...", there is no more unpleasant "pop" noise for about 1 to 2 hours of listening and then a "pop* may occur mainly in the 10 first seconds of a track and so on for the next tracks but those "pop" are no more systematic or frequent as before.

Any idea / explanation?

 

HQPlayer DSD512 settings (when poping):

• Output Device Settings
  • Backend: ASIO
  • Device: T+A PDP3000 USB ASIO
  • Channels: 2
  • Ch. offset: 0
  • SDM Pack: none
  • 2wire: Unchecked
  • Buffer time: Default
  • DAC bits: 32
  • 48k DSD: Checked
  • AltDSD: Unchecked
• Input Device Settings
  • Backend: None
  • Device: Nothing
  • Ch. offset: 0
  • Buffer time: Default
  • SDM Pack: Dop
  • 2wire: Unchecked
  • AltDSD: Unchecked
• Default Output Mode
  • SDM (DSD)
  • PCM Defaults
    • Filter 1x: poly-sync-lp
    • Filter Nx: poly-sync-lp
    • Dither: TPDF
    • Sample rate (/ Limit): 384k
• SDM Defaults
  • Oversampling 1x: poly-sinc-short-lp-2s
  • Oversampling Nx: poly-sinc-short-lp-2s
  • Modulator: AMSDM7 512+fs
  • Bit rate: 48k x 512
• Vol Min: -60dB
• Vol Max: -4.0dB
• Multicore DSP: UnChecked
• CUDA offload: UnChecked
• Adaptative output rate: UnChecked
• Log file: UnChecked

• DSDIFF/DSF Settings
  • UnChecked: DirectSDM
  • UnChecked: 6 dB Gain
  • PCM Noise Filter: standard
  • PCM Conversion: poly-ext2
  • SDM Integrator: IIR
  • SDM Conversion: wide

 

CheckedHQPlayer settings (with less "pop" noise):

• Output Device Settings
  • Backend: ASIO
  • Device: T+A PDP3000 USB ASIO
  • Channels: 2
  • Ch. offset: 0
  • SDM Pack: none
  • 2wire: Unchecked
  • Buffer time: Default
  • DAC bits: 32
  • 48k DSD: Checked
  • AltDSD: Unchecked
• Input Device Settings
  • Backend: None
  • Device: Nothing
  • Ch. offset: 0
  • Buffer time: Default
  • SDM Pack: Dop
  • 2wire: Unchecked
  • AltDSD: Unchecked
• Default Output Mode
  • SDM (DSD)
  • PCM Defaults
    • Filter 1x: poly-sync-lp
    • Filter Nx: poly-sync-lp
    • Dither: TPDF
    • Sample rate (/ Limit): 384k
• SDM Defaults
  • Oversampling 1x: poly-sinc-short-lp-2s
  • Oversampling Nx: poly-sinc-short-lp-2s
  • Modulator: ASDM7EC
  • Bit rate: 48k x 256
• Vol Min: -60dB
• Vol Max: -4.0dB
• Multicore DSP: Grayed
• CUDA offload: UnChecked
• Adaptative output rate: UnChecked
• Log file: UnChecked

• DSDIFF/DSF Settings
  • UnChecked: DirectSDM
  • UnChecked: 6 dB Gain
  • PCM Noise Filter: standard
  • PCM Conversion: poly-ext2
  • SDM Integrator: IIR
  • SDM Conversion: wide

Kind regards,

Gato

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

Some people have, but it has some performance issues with HQPlayer. One is per-core speed which is lower and another is inefficiencies when CCX's (CPU core groups) need to talk to each other.

 

 

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

 

9900K is safest route to go.

 

It handles DSD256 with EC modulators and DSD512 with non-EC, fine.

 

All without seperate GPU.

 

And with running Roon Server on the same machine for me.

Thanks guys. I haven’t used an AMD since the Clinton administration and I’m always leery of weird quirks like this. 

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, craighartley said:

Depends slightly on which filter you use though: it won't do DSD256 with EC modulators using Closed-Form 16M.

 

Very true. 

 

I should say with the popular poly-sinc filters 

 

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Gato said:

Hello,

With: iMac/Roon->PC machine(i7-7700K, JCAT NET Card FEMTO) / HQPlayer(v 4.3.3) Upsampling to DSD512->USB(SOtM tX-USBexp PCI express USB 3.0 with sCLK-48.0)->ISO REGEN / UltraCap LPS 1-2->T+A DAC8DSD.

 

Sounds like a clock slip problem or packet loss problem.

 

I would first try with the motherboard's integrated USB ports (Intel controller) and without REGEN, so just plain standard USB port directly to the DAC. This in order to rule out pops caused by lost or corrupted USB packets.

 

1 hour ago, Gato said:

Multicore DSP: UnChecked

 

You should always keep this grayed.

 

Also remember to keep HQPlayer volume set to max -3 dBFS and keep eye on the Limited counter that it stays zero (meaning that volume knob doesn't turn red ever).

 

[luisma]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

I first got Gigabyte Z170MX-Gaming5

Thanks, do you have a Streacom FC4 or HDPlex 2nd Gen H5?

[jabbr]

7 hours ago, craighartley said:

Depends slightly on which filter you use though: it won't do DSD256 with EC modulators using Closed-Form 16M.

 

My Xeon W-2245 handles Closed-form fine with EC ... There are a number of differences between the different chips -- for example the Xeon W and i9-9900*X* have AVX512 but the i9-9900K doesn't ... and the i9-9900K boosts higher so those are tradeoffs.

[craighartley]

32 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

My Xeon W-2245 handles Closed-form fine with EC ... There are a number of differences between the different chips -- for example the Xeon W and i9-9900*X* have AVX512 but the i9-9900K doesn't ... and the i9-9900K boosts higher so those are tradeoffs.

Just for the record - I have the 9900KS. It will do Closed-form or Closed-form Fast with EC modulators at DSD256. But it won't do Closed-form 16M.

[The Computer Audiophile]

44 minutes ago, jabbr said:

so those are tradeoffs

Ahhhh. Just like audio :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, craighartley said:

I have the 9900KS

I can't find a source fo the KS anywhere. Any ideas?

[craighartley]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I can't find a source fo the KS anywhere. Any ideas?

It was a limited edition and has sold out in many (most? all?) places. I'm in the UK and my source has run out.

[jabbr]

49 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Ahhhh. Just like audio :~)

 

Yes although I am looking for something that the i9-9900K or KS can handle that the W 2245 can't. Similar to the W2245 would be the i9-10900X -- which also has AVX512 but I'm guessing that W2245 is better (2 less cores and slighly higher speeds)

 

I think HQP with EC filters is a terrific benchmark!

[The Computer Audiophile]

41 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Yes although I am looking for something that the i9-9900K or KS can handle that the W 2245 can't. Similar to the W2245 would be the i9-10900X -- which also has AVX512 but I'm guessing that W2245 is better (2 less cores and slighly higher speeds)

 

I think HQP with EC filters is a terrific benchmark!

Absolutely. 

 

I'm trying to figure out which proc to go with for this Asus build and really can't decide. One important thing is that the proc is available to people who want to build the same thing that I write about. Sure I could get a KS from one of the three sellers on Amazon, but nobody else could get one once those are gone. 

 

The i9-9900K is widely available, the W-2245 seems to be available albeit from business oriented sources, and the i9-10900x seems to be available. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'd say it's between these two for what I should select. 

 

[jabbr]

9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Absolutely. 

 

I'm trying to figure out which proc to go with for this Asus build and really can't decide. One important thing is that the proc is available to people who want to build the same thing that I write about. Sure I could get a KS from one of the three sellers on Amazon, but nobody else could get one once those are gone. 

 

The i9-9900K is widely available, the W-2245 seems to be available albeit from business oriented sources, and the i9-10900x seems to be available. 

 

I don't think you can go wrong with either for most people -- though the i9-10900K is right around the corner, so could also be considered.

 

If you want pure number crunching goodness the W-2245 is what I just selected. I also wanted the extra PCIe lanes because my network card is PCe 4.0 x 16 (though the motherboard is only PCIe 3.0 but good enough). I have also wanted to have the capability of doing 6-8 channels.

[jabbr]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'd say it's between these two for what I should select. 

 

 

Good choices -- realize that you are looking at the i9-10900X, not the K ... and I looked at that vs the W-2245, I didn't need the extra 2 cores 10 vs 8 and the base clock speed of the W-2245 is 3.9 Ghz which is better, so that was my deciding factor.

 

I do prefer socket 2066 vs 1151 (more PCIe lanes)

[barrows]

The I9-9900KS is a "selected" version of the 9900K, and it is nearly unobtainium, and I suspect very expensive for the few which are for sale (was very expensive last time I found one).  Intel has to have a "good batch" of chips, i guess, to get some which can have performance enough to meet the "S" spec.

 

I suspect for Chris' build the I-9990K makes the most sense as it is readily available, and not too bad when it comes to price, and can run EC modulators and Roon, using the the 2 stage filters.  I guess one could make a build like this run more intensive filters if you added the right graphics card for CUDA offload, right?

 

Anyway, Chris, thanks for undertaking this project, I will be watching closely because I want a capable HQP machine, but I am clueless when it comes to speccing out and building computers-I can handle amps, renderers, DACs, etc, but computers, not so much here-I usually leave that to Andrew and Jesus! 

[ted_b]

40 minutes ago, barrows said:

Anyway, Chris, thanks for undertaking this project, I will be watching closely because I want a capable HQP machine, but I am clueless when it comes to speccing out and building computers

+1   Check out Jabbr's thread where he ordered a prebuilt Dell and added RAM, a fiber NIC and a couple other things..and has a DSD256 EC-capable machine for relatively cheap.  I may go that route once my room is done (in limbo right now at 50% completion ).  My I7-6700k server may not be too capable for any sort of EC modulation. 

[Miska]

10 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Very true. 

 

I should say with the popular poly-sinc filters 

 

There are still some cases that require GPU like RTX2080 or RTX2080Ti. For example one not so unusual case of using poly-sinc-xtr from 48k-base PCM to 44.1k x512 SDM. This case works on GPU, but not on i9-9900KS. It could work on a CPU with more cores though.

 

Also some DSD1024 output cases can be demanding.

 

Plus of course if one wants to use convolution, then offloading convolution may be beneficial.

 

[barrows]

41 minutes ago, ted_b said:

+1   Check out Jabbr's thread where he ordered a prebuilt Dell and added RAM, a fiber NIC and a couple other things..and has a DSD256 EC-capable machine for relatively cheap.  I may go that route once my room is done (in limbo right now at 50% completion ).  My I7-6700k server may not be too capable for any sort of EC modulation. 

Thanks Ted, I'll check it out.  I really want to run Linux/Sonic Transporter/Roon on this, as I familiar with that set up, and I really want to have nothing to do with Windows here, not sure how that would/could work out on a Dell.

[jabbr]

Just now, barrows said:

Thanks Ted, I'll check it out.  I really want to run Linux/Sonic Transporter/Roon on this, as I familiar with that set up, and I really want to have nothing to do with Windows here, not sure how that would/could work out on a Dell.

Mine came with Ubuntu 18.04 preloaded (though I immediately reloaded a fresh 18.04 because I don’t like OEM kernels). You need to look for and start with the base option that provides Ubuntu. I priced out building my own and Dell came in cheaper — even though I cut my hourly rate down to $0 in an effort to win the bid 😊

[Solstice380]

i'll post my results here for my new system - i9-9900KS, Asus RTX 2080 Advanced, Asus Maximus Hero Z390 mobo, M.2 drive, AIO water cooled.  Haven't done much Windows trimming, yet.  It can run Closed Form - 16M with ASDM7EC 44/16 to 256 DSD.  I think that is (one of) the hardest combos and I don't have to worry about changing rate family with my 48K base capable DAC.  CPU at 27% but has a couple cores pretty loaded, and GPU at 12% .  Core temps stay around 43 deg C.  All while doing a RDC to the NUC NAA, surfing like this, and taking screen snips to post.  😎

[barrows]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

Mine came with Ubuntu 18.04 preloaded (though I immediately reloaded a fresh 18.04 because I don’t like OEM kernels). You need to look for and start with the base option that provides Ubuntu. I priced out building my own and Dell came in cheaper — even though I cut my hourly rate down to $0 in an effort to win the bid 😊

Yeah, I am not surprised on the price, considering Dell's purchasing power/economies of scale!

[asdf1000]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

There are still some cases that require GPU like RTX2080 or RTX2080Ti. For example one not so unusual case of using poly-sinc-xtr from 48k-base PCM to 44.1k x512 SDM. This case works on GPU, but not on i9-9900KS. It could work on a CPU with more cores though.

 

Also some DSD1024 output cases can be demanding.

 

Plus of course if one wants to use convolution, then offloading convolution may be beneficial.

 

 

All true. I'd forgotten we discussed all these things earlier in this very thread.

 

I'd forgotten because I'm very happy with my i9-9900K with ext2 filter with ASDM7EC at DSD256.

 

But for all these details of what does and doesn't work with the 9900K, people should read earlier in this thread.

 

There's lots of good info.

[Gato]

22 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Sounds like a clock slip problem or packet loss problem.

 

I would first try with the motherboard's integrated USB ports (Intel controller) and without REGEN, so just plain standard USB port directly to the DAC. This in order to rule out pops caused by lost or corrupted USB packets.

 

 

You should always keep this grayed.

 

Also remember to keep HQPlayer volume set to max -3 dBFS and keep eye on the Limited counter that it stays zero (meaning that volume knob doesn't turn red ever).

 

Hello,

Oh Yes, indeed, without the ISO Regen, no more "pop noise" at all at this point in time. Now, I will also continu to verify the rest of the hardware used.

To be noted, on my system, when upsampling to DSD512, if Multicore DSP is grayed, there is a lot of stuttering. So in this case, for this system, unchecked is OK.

Thank you very much for your help!

Kind regards,

Gato