Article: SOtM sNH-10G Network Switch Review

[thyname]

11 hours ago, firedog said:

If you look at Archimago’s blog, he’s measured similar stuff that audiophiles think is important and found it to have no measurable effect. 

 

I have found that whatever he measures has no measurable effect. I am starting to think that whatever is measuring, with whatever measuring tool he is using, is totally irrelevant in Audio. To use a crude analogy: does measuring the sperm count matter for a patient with a heart disease?

[thyname]

1 hour ago, Archimago said:

 

Not true. There was a measurable difference as you can see in that post! And for most devices tested, there are actually differences I highlight - even between some cables! DACs easily show jitter differences.

 

What's more important is for folks to actually recognize that maybe... Just maybe... The power of the mind to produce and claim differences and attribution theories is way more powerful than what is actually there.

 

Except for, even when you measure some difference, you come with the conclusion that is beyond the audible boundary levels for humans, or even worse, to copy paste from your famous review of Chromecast Audio that all "deniers" wave all over the Internets:

 

".... And I don't believe anyone is really going to notice the jitter in day-to-day use. "

[thyname]

16 minutes ago, plissken said:

What happens to all of what you posted when the Ethernet cable is pulled and the music plays on?

 

‘You keep repeating the same thing over and over again, for years, in hundreds of forums and threads. Eureka!

[thyname]

2 minutes ago, plissken said:

What's even funnier is that over the years the subjectivist won't answer it because the know that their position on Ethernet cable and switches won't hold up.

 

 

 

What's even funnier is that you got pretty elaborate replies, with numbers, data, rationale, and everything many times in the past, and yet, you choose to disregard and ignore any of them.

 

It goes like this:

 

Other people: X cable, Y switch, makes a difference for me.

 

You: BS! you must be hallucinating. Pull the Ethernet cable out! Does the sound continue? Yeah!

[thyname]

3 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

You should be able to tell WHEN the cable is removed because the sound should improve. A cable that is unplugged during playback can just as easily be plugged back in during playback.

 

If you can't tell which is which you have a quandary as a subjectivist:

 

Let's walk through the guess you presented:

 

'data has already traversed the noisy switch'

 

Using that we can say that the ultimate fidelity at that point and time is when you unplug the Ethernet cable. That that portion of the playback chain can not be improved upon.

 

So if you have a $90 switch feeding your playback stack, and you have someone randomly unplug and plug the Ethernet cable and you can't tell when that was, then logic dictates that a $1500 switch, or two of them, can't improve your outcome.

 

I've offered before to setup a multi-homed playback computer. I can even do multiple switches and do a HSRP configuration up stream. This will allow full on comparison of a $1800 setup ($1500 switch and $300 cable) and and $100 setup ($90 switch and $10 cable) in real time.

 

 

LOL!! two people already just told you:

 

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

My guess is the data has already traversed the noisy switch

 

20 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

This question never made sense: if the ethernet cable has transmitted ‘noise’ or jitter, etc to the streamer/DAC, and then the dac/streamer plays that in it’s buffer, won’t it have the same ‘sound’ as the just pulled cable if the buffer continues to play? Alwasy seemed like a straw argument to me...

 

[thyname]

Just now, plissken said:

 

.... This is why I'm a proponent of WiFi over either copper or optical Ethernet.

 

WiFi is the defacto, highest fidelity, connection available to the audiophile.

 

Hmmm.... great idea in theory, but in practice, the receiving end (streamer, etc) does it not have a Wi-Fi receptor or antenna to convert the internet signal, with its own issues & problems?

[thyname]

7 minutes ago, incus said:

He's saying that to prove the switch and cable have no effect on the sound, just pull the cable and hear that the buffered signal sounds the same. My point is that that doesn't prove what he's saying it does. It's logic, digital or analog. The signal hanging out in the buffer has already passed through the switch and the cable so of course it sounds the same. For the skeptics among you, there just needs to be a loaner program or some other way to test. Play track. Then insert switch and play track again. Then post about it. (Which is, by the way, what the OP did and reported back on - as frustratingly unspecific / fanboyish as those reports may have been...)

 

‘You are wasting your time. These pseudoscience guys never try anything. They already KNOW the outcome 

[thyname]

4 minutes ago, incus said:

Which is of course the absolute inverse of the scientific method.

 

‘Agreed. And yet, they will tell you “they don’t need to go to North Pole to know it’s cold out there”. Argue that. You (and I) cannot win. 

[thyname]

18 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

There is no winning on either side. Good discussions are great. Attempting to win or having arguments that go off the rails only end up in both sides losing. 

 

‘Any discussion without personal experience is just theory. I buy something very carefully as my budget is limited. Sometimes with good results, sometimes not so much. But I hate it when the scientists tell me that I am hallucinating when I say “this worked for me”

[thyname]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’d hate that as well. 

 

‘You have been lucky nobody told you that yet. Or maybe because who you are. 

[thyname]

12 minutes ago, rickca said:

@PeterSt how do you account for the fact that lots of people are reporting that different switches sound better than others?  

 

‘They are surely hallucinating 😂😉. You know, things like placebo, trying to justify the purchase of an expensive, unnecessary item, absence of a scientific blind test with a panel of 100 people from street, things like that

[thyname]

6 hours ago, EdmontonCanuck said:

 

I can attest to that....

 

 

 

 

Oh look! I am holding a snowball in my hand! Therefore the global warming is a hoax!

[thyname]

1 minute ago, JohnSwenson said:

The pulling the plug thing is what actually got me looking into this.

 

A while back I had a prototype of one the streamers on the bench feeding a little inexpensive DAC ($110) feeding some inexpensive Senheiser headphones($69) when I accidentally unplugged the Ethernet cable and the increase in sound quality blew me away. There was about 1 minute of music stored in the streamer so I got 1 minute of REALLY good sounding music.

 

So yep, pulling the plug DID make a big difference, but it wasn't a "test", there was no expectation involved.

 

John S.

 

‘So please hurry up and take those measurements so that we can “prove” it to these pseudoscience a*holes!

[thyname]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Some people just can't resist.

 

‘How can they? That’s their raison d'être

[thyname]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

I include myself in that group of “some people.” 😁

 

‘So do I 😉

[thyname]

2 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

You are incredibly tolerant & keep an open mind: this is very admirable in that people are allowed to openly express themselves across a wide variety of areas with both unreasonable and reasonable opinions and conclusions. Sadly, - this allows for disruptive trolls whose purpose isn't to discuss audio performance, - but to disrupt discussions and levy abuse towards those who are trying to enhance the experience of listening to music. Doubly sad, - this kind of behavior discourages people from writing reviews such as this one. In essence, a few, loud, closed minded, naysayers shut down advancement and limit the scope of what is discussed, - and the vast majority of readers lose opportunities that may improve the enjoyment of their music. What I often find ironic, is that several of these "noise mitigation" & "isolation" devices that people have found to be so effective when applied in high-end audio performance, come from the computing industry and have been shown to be effective there. (Most notably EMO, Intona, & USB extenders).

 

Very well said (written)!

 

Totally agree.

 

I have found two groups of people in the internet (audio forums and Facebook):

 

Group #1 - People who are curious to learn and discuss audio, share experiences, increase the performance of their system, and help others do the same

 

Group #2 - People who will shut down and argue everything that group #1 posts. These are the "prove it to me" people, constantly asking for "proof" as in measurements, double blind tests, etc.

 

Unfortunately, group #2 members are very noisy all over the place. To the point that there wont't be anyone left from group #1 to discuss and bring up anything, for fear of being ridiculed from the noisy people on group #2. It's already happening. 

 

I have truly struggled to understand the motive behind the noise from people in group #2. What are they trying to accomplish? or are they just good Samaritans ? Mind bugling !

[thyname]

1 minute ago, pga said:

I’m all for having an open mind and exploring different views, but there is a point where things become absurd, and this review in my view went well past that point. Glad to know Chis was not the author. 

 

‘Why? You tried it and it did not work for you? Or you just KNOW?

[thyname]

3 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

How do you know this switch won't increase what shows in your online banking account when you go to check it?

 

I mean you haven't tried it. Maybe you need to order one of every switch currently made and check your bank account statements. Because one never knows, riiiiight?

 

‘What a dumb ass logic 😬

[thyname]

32 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

How so? You haven't tried it. I mean it worked for me....

 

Or are you suddenly an expert on how IP data networks....work?

 

‘Because yours is simply stupid comment. Nothing to do with IP data network. Even less (if there is less than nothing) with Audio.

 

Have you tried it? Or you just KNOW? As an audio expert. 

[thyname]

Just now, plissken said:

I watch a lot of 1080P movies that I have ripped to H 264 and stream from my NAS.

 

What is the best model of switch that will increase my picture quality, better color microdynamics, and better resolution and detail.

 

‘Buy a better / bigger TV?

[thyname]

2 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

I already have a 106" Projection Screen  So what switch is going to improve my PQ?

 

I don’t know man. I am not watching TV wth you. Figure it out for yourself 

[thyname]

15 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Sorry, my mistake, I thought you had all the answers for everyone else.

 

‘Never claimed that. Unlike you