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mintakax

Any MSB fans here ?

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I have an MSB Discrete DAC and am considering upgrading it to the Premiere. The upgrade price is basically the difference between new prices of the units (thanks for that MSB). As far as I can tell, the upgrade consists of one more DAC module per channel and an upgraded clock. I'd really like to hear from anybody who has heard the two units and could say something about their respective SQs. I don't see many posts about MSB products on CA. There is an MSB forum on audioshark but very little traffic.

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3 hours ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Do you have any experience with MSB DAC's in your own system?

 

Not in mine system, but I listened to MSB at several audio shows, mainly High End Munich. 

The worst experience was HE Munich this year:

AFAIK MSB Select with some active speakers and both guys from MSB were present.

Boring, clinical, without emotions.......

 

Matt

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37 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Not in mine system, but I listened to MSB at several audio shows, mainly High End Munich. 

The worst experience was HE Munich this year:

AFAIK MSB Select with some active speakers and both guys from MSB were present.

Boring, clinical, without emotions.......

 

Matt

Did the active speakers use DSP crossovers? If so the sound you didn't like could have been from that. Because the analog outputs from the MSB would have to go through an ADC/DSP/DAC before the amplifiers. 

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7 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Did the active speakers use DSP crossovers? If so the sound you didn't like could have been from that. Because the analog outputs from the MSB would have to go through an ADC/DSP/DAC before the amplifiers. 

 

Did not ask them, I wanted to leave the room asap.

Did not understand at all how to set-up such a system, offending the visitor.

 

Matt

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4 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Did not ask them, I wanted to leave the room asap.

Did not understand at all how to set-up such a system, offending the visitor.

 

Matt

So there's a good chance that what you didn't like was the speakers/room combination. I find it very hard to believe it's possible to judge a DAC alone in an unknown room, with unknown gear. The only impressions I put weight on is when one has the DAC in there own system for an extended period of time, and had a chance to extensively compare with other DAC's in the same class, in the same system. 

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1 minute ago, Music Enthusiast said:

So there's a good chance that what you didn't like was the speakers/room combination. I find it very hard to believe it's possible to judge a DAC alone in an unknown room, with unknown gear. The only impressions I put weight on is when one has the DAC in there own system for an extended period of time, and had a chance to extensibly compare with other DAC's in the same class, in the same system. 

 

Maybe, but on HE Munich there were quite a few systems which sounded wonderfully.

All manufacturers have similar rooms. 

I had the impression they were not interested to let their equipment shine.

 

Matt

 

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The MSB Select System at RMAF 2018 sounded awesome ! If I remember correctly, the speakers were Magicos. I love the sound of my MSB Discrete but admittedly haven't compared it to other higher end DACs. For me it really shines playing DSD files, there thicker the better.

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3 minutes ago, mintakax said:

The MSB Select System at RMAF 2018 sounded awesome ! If I remember correctly, the speakers were Magicos. I love the sound of my MSB Discrete but admittedly haven't compared it to other higher end DACs. For me it really shines playing DSD files, there thicker the better.

 

Then I am wondering why they neglect european audiophiles.

 

Matt

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6 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Then I am wondering why they neglect european audiophiles.

 

Matt

Is there no dealers that allow home demo's? The only good way to demo a DAC is in your own system. There's too many variables at play when listening on a system/room combination that is unknown to you. 

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I am a strong believer in the source first principle.

Upstream of the DAC you have something like a server or streamer, then an USB or ethernet cable.

The DAC comes third in the hierarchy.

When you spend 80k on a DAC which is less important than what comes before it, how much want you spend on the more important devices?

 

Matt

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1 hour ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Is there no dealers that allow home demo's? The only good way to demo a DAC is in your own system. There's too many variables at play when listening on a system/room combination that is unknown to you. 

 

I was able to demo my MSB Discrete DAC for two weeks. I did have to buy it first, but was guaranteed a full refund (minus shipping) if I didn't want to keep it.

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Would be nice to get more feedback from people who have heard it in their own systems. Not just read about it on the Internet, or heard it at a show. Next thing people will be posting reviews on USB cables because they heard them at a show connected to a $200K system. Or seen a picture online somewhere. All useless information. 

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On 12/25/2018 at 2:31 AM, mintakax said:

I have an MSB Discrete DAC and am considering upgrading it to the Premiere. The upgrade price is basically the difference between new prices of the units (thanks for that MSB). As far as I can tell, the upgrade consists of one more DAC module per channel and an upgraded clock. I'd really like to hear from anybody who has heard the two units and could say something about their respective SQs. I don't see many posts about MSB products on CA. There is an MSB forum on audioshark but very little traffic.

 

I have a Premier Dac with Ethernet as Input though I cannot say I am a fan of MSB.  I auditioned a Discrete Dac in the dealer and it was good so I ordered a Premier Dac (since my last was a Rossini Dac so I would like to have a more or less same level gear).  It takes more than a month before MSB can deliver and it did not come with the power supply and the dealer is kind enought to lend me one for interim use until my power supply is shipped. 

 

I cannot say that I can still rememeber how the Discrete Dac sound but I am quite satisfied with the SQ of the Premier Dac.  It has more detail than my last but it does not sound digital at all.  There is NOS and it plays as source. 

 

However, I did experience trouble in setting up the control app and I beleiver the Renderer manual (still V1) is seriously out of date by suggesting the apps choice.  In fact, none of them works, Kinsky can only play one song at a time while others cannot find the device.  Finally, I have to use Roon (not free app) to make it work.

 


MetalNuts

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 MetalNutz, do you have questions about the new renderer ? I have found the MSB tech support to be very responsive, you will likely get a response from one of the owners. I had an issue with my Renderer occasionally freezing up and they worked with me very closely, even after business hours, to get it resolved.

As for control apps, I use Roon and am very happy with it. 

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Well, in my system, for the last 10 years or so, I had a significant different DACs. M2 Tech, North Star Supremo, TAD, MSB Analog DAC, EMM Labs, MSB Diamond V and MSB Select DAC II with QUAD USB, Pro ISL and Renderer V2. And yes, MSB are the ones I prefer. Besides, their support is awesome. With the Renderer module, and the Reference Transport that I also owne, I can play files directly from my DYI Music Server. No switchy, no router in between. Fantastic realistic SQ, in my system and in my room. One last point, the volume module of the DAC is the best preamp that I’ve ever had.

Cheers. Happy New year.

Armsan

 


Music Server - Pink Faun PSU and case for ASUS ITX board with M2 disk for Ubuntu Desktop 16.0.4, i7 Haswell CPU, Samsung SSDs for music files. DAC - MSB Diamond DAC V with Renderer Module and Quad USB. PRE - Trinity Preamp. Amp - Accuphase A-70. Speakers - TAD Reference One.

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On 12/28/2018 at 11:25 PM, mintakax said:

 MetalNutz, do you have questions about the new renderer ? I have found the MSB tech support to be very responsive, you will likely get a response from one of the owners. I had an issue with my Renderer occasionally freezing up and they worked with me very closely, even after business hours, to get it resolved.

As for control apps, I use Roon and am very happy with it. 

 

When I order the Renderer, the sales did not tell me that in fact there is only a few controller apps that work.  I thought it was as said the Renderer V1 manual that apps like Kinsky, Kazoo, Lumin and Ligthning DS will work.

 

In fact, I used half day trying different apps, most of them, I could not even complete setting up, like Lightning DS that requiring picking a model of its own brand, others cannot find the MSB device.  I have a Kinsky app that recognised the MSB but each time it played a file and disconnected.

 

I tried Media Stattion and DS Audio of Synology (my NAS is Synology), it works.

 

I then tried Roon, it also works but I hate those fancy stuff it provides and it mess up the tags of my files and cannot display as I want, no "Various Artists".  Anyway, it works.

 

One more thing to note is that I found out that the renderer is not gigabit but it handles DSD256 and DXD without problem. 

 

So far, there is no problem with the Renderer with Roon in playing the files (if you know where to find them!!!)

 

 

 


MetalNuts

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I have ordered my Premier DAC and it is in at the dealer.  It has dual power supplies but not the powerbase.  I chose to wait on the clock upgrade.  I also ordered it with the renderer and upgraded USB inputs.  I may just have the dealer get the clock upgrade as well since I heard it makes a noticeable improvement but have not had a chance to hear it myself.  Also it is black in color.  Will probably pick it up in about a month since I am in no hurry to tear down my system at this time and it allows my dealer to break it in.  Let me know what you think about yours.  I had a chance to get the Reference as a demo unit but even then it was still around $12K more than a fully loaded brand new Premiere with all the options.

 

Noushy

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Congrats on the Premier! I’ve had mine a couple months now and love it! Black Premier here with Femto clock upgrade, Renderer and extra power supply. 

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Thanks. I just pulled the trigger on the clock upgrade. Do you think it was worth it? My dealer will do the upgrade for me.

 

Noushy

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