Any MSB fans here ?

[tranz]

 

A couple of thoughts on the MSB.

 

Filters

 

The one utterly crucial bit is the filter setting, as it can make or break your experience. The standard default filter 1 to my ears is painful and fatiguing. The unnatural pre-ringing in the linear phase filter 1 is very unpleasant. Filter 4 is a minimum phase filter and much easier to the ears. Of course everyone’s ears will behave differently, just make sure you are able to select the different filters for your preferred choice.

 

OpenHome Renderer

 

The gen 1 renderer is best used with an OpenHome server running, such as the excellent Bubble UPnP Server. I still use Lumin for the app, but have also noticed that apps keep changing and dropping their support for anything that is not their hardware...irritating but understandable. I do not update or connect my iPad to the internet for that reason alone. 

 

For the insane prices of their DACs a dedicated app would be expected,  but they seem to have thrown in with Roon. Not sure if gen 2 is better.

[thyname]

On 7/5/2019 at 2:21 PM, tranz said:

 

A couple of thoughts on the MSB.

 

Filters

 

The one utterly crucial bit is the filter setting, as it can make or break your experience. The standard default filter 1 to my ears is painful and fatiguing. The unnatural pre-ringing in the linear phase filter 1 is very unpleasant. Filter 4 is a minimum phase filter and much easier to the ears. Of course everyone’s ears will behave differently, just make sure you are able to select the different filters for your preferred choice.

 

OpenHome Renderer

 

The gen 1 renderer is best used with an OpenHome server running, such as the excellent Bubble UPnP Server. I still use Lumin for the app, but have also noticed that apps keep changing and dropping their support for anything that is not their hardware...irritating but understandable. I do not update or connect my iPad to the internet for that reason alone. 

 

For the insane prices of their DACs a dedicated app would be expected,  but they seem to have thrown in with Roon. Not sure if gen 2 is better.

 

Filters? My MSB Discrete has no selectable filters

[Noushy]

I have the new premier with all options and the V2 renderer.  Have not used that yet and only place off my N10.  As for filter settings I need to actually sit and listen.  Mine has been setup by the dealer.

 

Noushy

[tranz]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:58 PM, thyname said:

 

Filters? My MSB Discrete has no selectable filters

 

On 9/2/2019 at 7:55 PM, Noushy said:

I have the new premier with all options and the V2 renderer.  Have not used that yet and only place off my N10.  As for filter settings I need to actually sit and listen.  Mine has been setup by the dealer.

 

Noushy

 

If you have the renderer module you can type in the IP address of your DAC into a browser and select the filter from the menu. You can find the IP address via your router menu of attached devices, or something like a PlugPlayer app that shows the IP.

 

If not, perhaps your remote allows you to toggle? I would definitely ask your dealer as the default filter to my ears was not doable. If it had not been for that filter menu and selectable filters I would have gotten rid of mine a long time ago.

[thyname]

33 minutes ago, tranz said:

 

 

If you have the renderer module you can type in the IP address of your DAC into a browser and select the filter from the menu. You can find the IP address via your router menu of attached devices, or something like a PlugPlayer app that shows the IP.

 

If not, perhaps your remote allows you to toggle? I would definitely ask your dealer as the default filter to my ears was not doable. If it had not been for that filter menu and selectable filters I would have gotten rid of mine a long time ago.

 

I don't have the Renderer module. My module is the ProUSB / ISL --- I can probably ask MSB direct. I have little faith the dealer would know anything

[thyname]

5 hours ago, tranz said:

 

 

If you have the renderer module you can type in the IP address of your DAC into a browser and select the filter from the menu. You can find the IP address via your router menu of attached devices, or something like a PlugPlayer app that shows the IP.

 

If not, perhaps your remote allows you to toggle? I would definitely ask your dealer as the default filter to my ears was not doable. If it had not been for that filter menu and selectable filters I would have gotten rid of mine a long time ago.

 

I confirmed with MSB that Discrete DAC does not have any filters to select. You must confuse it with something else, or an older model MSB DAC

[rhmmmm]

I do not believe the newer models have selectable filters.

[Noushy]

I have not found any settings on my premiere for filters either...

[MetalNuts]

Me 2!🤣 I can't find any filter so I am unable to select them (if any). 

[analogue]

Back in  March 1993, TJ Norton of Stereophile (in a test of several CD players), ranked the MSB Technology Silver CD player as the best sounding of the four that were compared. I think the Silver featured the classic Philips SAA/TDA chipset. It didn't measure as good as the Marantz (Bitstream), Proceed, and Kinergetics units ... but the MSB sonics ranked highest.

That review in not yest online. And I've never been able to find any info on other than that old review. 

Weird!

I do that that much of that classic multbit goodness is similar in character to some Naim players of the 1990s (also used classic Philips SAA/TDA chipset).

 

[MetalNuts]

Despite the MSB Premier DAC and Powerbase, each has its own spikes and pad, I have tried using different isolators.  I have the Dac stacked on the Powerbase using the MSB supplied spikes and pads whereas under the Powerbase, I have used Stillpoints Ultra SS and recently Hifistay Hardpoint Trinia.

 

I like the Hardpoint Trinia more and it enhance the natural flow and analogue feel of the Dac. 

 

 

[tranz]

On 9/4/2019 at 6:30 PM, thyname said:

 

I confirmed with MSB that Discrete DAC does not have any filters to select. You must confuse it with something else, or an older model MSB DAC

Yes, I have an older one. The Analog. If you have the Renderer v1, the IP URL screen will allow you to change the filters. Or if you have an RS-232 unit, you can update the digital filter through your computer.

 

It really is a shame that they took that user input away in the newer models. It would stop me from buying any new generation MSB. If I cannot select the digital filter, especially if the default is linear phase, it is a no-go for my ears.

 

Perhaps if more people ask for it, they will bring it back as it would seem to be a relatively easy function to add since it is obviously in the code somewhere already.

[tranz]

On 10/22/2019 at 6:14 PM, MetalNuts said:

Despite the MSB Premier DAC and Powerbase, each has its own spikes and pad, I have tried using different isolators.  I have the Dac stacked on the Powerbase using the MSB supplied spikes and pads whereas under the Powerbase, I have used Stillpoints Ultra SS and recently Hifistay Hardpoint Trinia.

 

I like the Hardpoint Trinia more and it enhance the natural flow and analogue feel of the Dac. 

 

 

I also have put separation between the powerbase and the DAC and do not stack them. They are on separate shelves and separated using multiple layers of EMF field reducing/deflecting aluminium plates, Giron shielding and distance.

 

With a simple EMF meter you can see how large and powerful of a field it throws.

[MetalNuts]

From all photos on the web, the two were stacked with the Dac on top of the powerbase and which makes me believe that they can be so stacked up without sound quality issue.  You are the one who has separated them and find there a difference and I may follow suit to see the difference.

 

Further, I have custom made the power cables that connect the powerbase to the DAC and I find there improvement as well, unfortunately, I cannot find better quality din plugs for the cable, the kind of plug used by MSB are for computer use and certainly not those commonly used by the audio industry for such priced items.

[alfa]

I have the MSB Analog DAC RUNNING DIRECT TO POWER AMP. I need to know if the volume control in The Premier DAC is better than any preamp .  I’m considering upgrade options. Do I upgrade to Premier DAC or try a preamplifier ?

[MetalNuts]

3 hours ago, alfa said:

I have the MSB Analog DAC RUNNING DIRECT TO POWER AMP. I need to know if the volume control in The Premier DAC is better than any preamp .  I’m considering upgrade options. Do I upgrade to Premier DAC or try a preamplifier ?

 

I had Esoteric N-05, N-01, DCS Rossini and now I am using MSB Premier DAC but I have not used their equipped Pre-amp function.  I had tried with my previous DACs but I do not find them as good as a proper pre-amp or the integrated amp.  

 

However, you should try yours to see whether you prefer the DAC's pre-amp or not.

 

[Noushy]

I think it is a matter of opinion.  I have heard the select direct to an amp and amazing.  I use my C2600 preamp between my premier and amp and believe it adds some warmth.  The pre function in the premier is supposedly very good.

 

Noushy

[sbilotta]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:08 AM, MetalNuts said:

Further, I have custom made the power cables that connect the powerbase to the DAC 

 

I have a Diamond DAC V and am interested in how you custom made those cables.

I am presuming you didn't do it yourself?

What cables did you use?

 

Also, did the isolation feet you used (Ultra SS and/or Hardpoint Trinia) significantly enhance the sound?

 

Thx

Stefano

[MetalNuts]

13 hours ago, sbilotta said:

 

I have a Diamond DAC V and am interested in how you custom made those cables.

I am presuming you didn't do it yourself?

What cables did you use?

 

Also, did the isolation feet you used (Ultra SS and/or Hardpoint Trinia) significantly enhance the sound?

 

Thx

Stefano

 

I have tried Stillpoints ultra mini for the premier dac which sits on the power base.  Ultra mini will give me a warmer sound but I have the feeling of it muddling the sound and separation of instruments therefore it is not my cup of tea so I am now using the original MSB supplied feet.  For the power base, I use Hifistay's Hardpoint Trinia which also gives me a warmer sound and a darker background without the muddling.

 

For power cables from the power base to dac, I am not sure what brand is it since it only costs a few hundred Hong Kong dollars and DIY by some local technician. 

 

 

[skids929]

On 11/7/2019 at 1:31 PM, tranz said:

 

 

It really is a shame that they took that user input away in the newer models. It would stop me from buying any new generation MSB. If I cannot select the digital filter, especially if the default is linear phase, it is a no-go for my ears.

 

Perhaps if more people ask for it, they will bring it back as it would seem to be a relatively easy function to add since it is obviously in the code somewhere already.

 

 

Naw...They advanced the tech so far beyond the Analog DAC the filters actually negatively effected the sound in all tests so they eliminated them. They aren't coming back unless there were sonic benefits in doing so. Personally I have DACs with filters, they're rarely implemented in an effective way and quite honestly just add more settings to deal with. I just want to plug the damn thing in and listen. If I need to tweak hard ware a little get where I need to be so-be-it, but filters I can live without if the overall package sounds as good as MSB does. 

[tranz]

On 1/17/2021 at 9:16 AM, skids929 said:

 

 

Naw...They advanced the tech so far beyond the Analog DAC the filters actually negatively effected the sound in all tests so they eliminated them. They aren't coming back unless there were sonic benefits in doing so. Personally I have DACs with filters, they're rarely implemented in an effective way and quite honestly just add more settings to deal with. I just want to plug the damn thing in and listen. If I need to tweak hard ware a little get where I need to be so-be-it, but filters I can live without if the overall package sounds as good as MSB does. 

Of course they did not eliminate digital filters, they just do not provide the user with the choice any longer and settled on their linear phase filter.  Some people are more sensitive to linear phase vs. minimum phase filters. Some good articles and videos out there, in the pro-audio world as well.

[Motoman]

On 11/11/2019 at 12:08 AM, MetalNuts said:

From all photos on the web, the two were stacked with the Dac on top of the powerbase and which makes me believe that they can be so stacked up without sound quality issue.  You are the one who has separated them and find there a difference and I may follow suit to see the difference.

 

Further, I have custom made the power cables that connect the powerbase to the DAC and I find there improvement as well, unfortunately, I cannot find better quality din plugs for the cable, the kind of plug used by MSB are for computer use and certainly not those commonly used by the audio industry for such priced items.

Vince Galbo, National Sales Manager for MSB, told me absolutely NOT to stack my Discrete on top of the Premier Power Base, despite all of the pictures showing them stacked.  I can’t say that I hear any difference, but then I don’t have the golden ears that I think are necessary to discern subtleties like changing the feet, etc., so YMMV.

[Armsan]

On 9/18/2021 at 2:16 PM, Motoman said:

Vince Galbo, National Sales Manager for MSB, told me absolutely NOT to stack my Discrete on top of the Premier Power Base, despite all of the pictures showing them stacked.  I can’t say that I hear any difference, but then I don’t have the golden ears that I think are necessary to discern subtleties like changing the feet, etc., so YMMV.

Agreed Motoman. In my system, I can ear a significant difference.

[MarkusBarkus]

...this week I am demo-ing a Premier dac. I have it stacked on a temp rack, but would definitely separate the power supply onto its own shelf if I proceed with the project.

 

So far, I think the deconstructed Dave (Dave/DC4/Denefrips Gaia) may still be ahead, but the ProISL USB solution will arrive today. Mr. Galbo told me the Premiere is at about 40% via SPDIF, which is how I have it initially, due to placement, cables, etc.

 

Very interested in any comments to advance the demo/decision my audio friends...

[divertiti]

On 9/21/2021 at 7:22 AM, MarkusBarkus said:

...this week I am demo-ing a Premier dac. I have it stacked on a temp rack, but would definitely separate the power supply onto its own shelf if I proceed with the project.

 

So far, I think the deconstructed Dave (Dave/DC4/Denefrips Gaia) may still be ahead, but the ProISL USB solution will arrive today. Mr. Galbo told me the Premiere is at about 40% via SPDIF, which is how I have it initially, due to placement, cables, etc.

 

Very interested in any comments to advance the demo/decision my audio friends...

 

Really interested in the comparison with your upgraded Dave setup with the Pro ISL, any updates?