ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

the thermos bottle quote is a bit confused - not analogous to a Faraday cage really

Yes, the purpose of the shiny coating (more likely aluminium than silver) is to reduce the emissivity. Nothing to do with EM waves.

[BigGuy]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

the thermos bottle quote is a bit confused - not analogous to a Faraday cage really

 

 

IF a thermos is a double cylinder of glass, etc., I  believe it is a good approximation of two layers of braid connected to each other separated by a insulating layer in the context of our discussions, IMHO.  A true thermos is two cylindrical layers of glass closed at the end with a evacuated layer in between.

[mansr]

13 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

IF a thermos is a double cylinder of glass, etc., I  believe it is a good approximation of two layers of braid connected to each other separated by a insulating layer in the context of our discussions, IMHO.  A true thermos is two cylindrical layers of glass closed at the end with a evacuated layer in between.

There is a topological similarity, but the analogy ends there.

[Cornan]

6 hours ago, BigGuy said:

IF a thermos is a double cylinder of glass, etc., I  believe it is a good approximation of two layers of braid connected to each other separated by a insulating layer in the context of our discussions, IMHO.  A true thermos is two cylindrical layers of glass closed at the end with a evacuated layer in between.

 

I kinda liked the thermos bottle simularity to JSSG360! ? Even if a thermos bottles of course is a totally different thing I still wonder if a JSSG360 is actually best used on both +Ve and -Ve to protect the stabillity inside the wires due to capasitive coupling between the two plus protect it from outside RFI/EMI. I also wonder how much the temerature inside the DC cable needs to be controlled? There are other interesting thermo foil solutions around that might give ideas to why the JSSG360 seems more effective than JSSG according to others. ?

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

I still wonder if a JSSG360 is actually best used on both +Ve and -Ve to protect the stabillity inside the wires due to capasitive coupling between the two

 

 How much is the separation between them ?

[Cornan]

16 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 How much is the separation between them ?

 

Not sure what you mean since I have not tried a JSSG360 just yet? In my own latest version with unshielded dual wires the separation between -Ve and +Ve is roughly 3 times the size of the wire i the middle ad of course much closer at the plug ends. I have ordered copper tape that I plan to use at the plug ends (around both -Ve ad +Ve wires with electrical tape on top plus possibly around the DC plugs) to see if that gives an additional SQ boost or not. Let´s see!  

[sandyk]

58 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Not sure what you mean since I have not tried a JSSG360 just yet? In my own latest version with unshielded dual wires the separation between -Ve and +Ve is roughly 3 times the size of the wire i the middle ad of course much closer at the plug ends. I have ordered copper tape that I plan to use at the plug ends (around both -Ve ad +Ve wires with electrical tape on top plus possibly around the DC plugs) to see if that gives an additional SQ boost or not. Let´s see!  

 

Unless the lead with that spacing is relatively long, there will only be a VERY small amount of capacitance.

In fact, you can make a low value capacitor of around 10 picofarads or so, simply by twisting a couple of inches of thin insulated wire together.To obtain a specified value you would need to make it a little longer and cut to the right length using a Capacitance Meter. 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

Unless the lead with that spacing is relatively long, there will only be a VERY small amount of capacitance.

In fact, you can make a low value capacitor of around 10 picofarads or so, simply by twisting a couple of inches of thin insulated wire together.To obtain a specified value you would need to make it a little longer and cut to the right length using a Capacitance Meter. 

 

Interesting Alex!  One thing that I have wondered with the use of my inline Kemet A750s (or other capasitors for that matter). They seem to improve on both ends of a DC cable. Since a capacitor keeps positive and negative charges from each other I am wondering if it is not better to actually solder the DC wires to the Kemet A750 legs (close to the capasitor body) and just insert the far end legs of the Kemet to the DC plugs, so no DC wire is infact in contact with the DC plug terminals? Using one capasitor at each end will then truly prevent the positive and negative charges from interfearing each other. Does this seems right to you?

[sandyk]

6 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Interesting Alex!  One thing that I have wondered with the use of my inline Kemet A750s (or other capasitors for that matter). They seem to improve on both ends of a DC cable. Since a capacitor keeps positive and negative charges from each other I am wondering if it is not better to actually solder the DC wires to the Kemet A750 legs (close to the capasitor body) and just insert the far end legs of the Kemet to the DC plugs, so no DC wire is infact in contact with the DC plug terminals. Using one capasitor at each end will then truly prevent the positive and negative charges from interfearing each other. Does this seems right to you?

 

Sounds a bit messy, but if it works for you ….

"Suck it and see"

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Sounds a bit messy, but if it works for you ….

"Suck it and see"

 

Not sure that it needs to be that messy. I can always start out just twisting the DC cable wires around the capasitor legs and cover them with a bit of electrical tape to prevent it from moving. If it turns out better I can always solder the wires to the legs later on (if I cannot find another solution that is)! 

I think I will suck on it right after work! ?

[BigGuy]

9 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I kinda liked the thermos bottle simularity to JSSG360! ? Even if a thermos bottles of course is a totally different thing I still wonder if a JSSG360 is actually best used on both +Ve and -Ve to protect the stabillity inside the wires due to capasitive coupling between the two plus protect it from outside RFI/EMI. I also wonder how much the temerature inside the DC cable needs to be controlled? There are other interesting thermo foil solutions around that might give ideas to why the JSSG360 seems more effective than JSSG according to others. ?

Just one man's opinion but if we know that an open-ended braided shield will act as a Faraday cage unless, as <mansr> has suggested, the cable is on the order of 12 inches in diameter...

...AND we accept Fowler's "superscreened" cable design as being 2 layers of copper braid with a layer of muMetal foil between, then that should work very well.  (NOTE: Fowler does indicate that 3 layers of braid alternated with 2 layers of muMetal foil would yield a "hyper", my word, screened cable.)  The difficult part of Fowler's construction is leaving the gap between the outer surface of the inner braid and the inner surface of the foil without special equipment.

I am going to post treat some cable(s) with this construction tho' I am not quite sure how I can manually creat the gap which according to Fowler greatly changes the inductance and improves screening performance.

 

The other considerable concern is whether  the final construction will take a bend!?

[Cornan]

I could’nt wait to try out my idea with the wires twisted around the middle of Kemet A750 legs and lower part of the legs inserted into the DC screw terminal DC plug instead if squeezing the Kemet legs inside the plug together with the wires. Common sence tells you that that connection cannot be perfect. To make it a ever greater task I decided to use only the silver plated OCC copper wires. No Acoustic Revive Tripple CCC copper wire and only one Kemet at the output.

 

 

Wow! This is by far the best ”here-with-me-inside-my-room-feeling” I have ever heard in my setup. A really crazy presence and air! Bass is awesome! Treble is awesome! Dynamics in lows, mids and hights are tremendous! Voices and guitars are putting me on a spell. Impossible to change track ones you’ve started to listen to any track. Fibers, 3D, 4D music glow and everything else is almost impeccable IMO. Fuck shielding. It is capacitors that separates -Ve to +Ve that you REALLY want if you trust me (Kemets or other brands)!???

 

Remember that this is just the beginning! The connection between the wire and Kemets legs is just crazy bad as you can see on the pictures. Still it give me this awesome result. Soldering joints will likely improve the result. The Kemet is just in single. One at each end of the cable will likely be much better IME (I have tried). I have 9 Kemet’s in my setup right now (but will order more tonight). I can only imagine how much they will improve thing further with this mod. Truly isolating the DC cable path. Joy! ??

[BigGuy]

9 minutes ago, Cornan said:

I could’nt wait to try out my idea with the wires twisted around the middle of Kemet A750 legs and lower part of the legs inserted into the DC screw terminal DC plug instead if squeezing the Kemet legs inside the plug together with the wires. Common sence tells you that that connection cannot be perfect. To make it a ever greater task I decided to use only the silver plated OCC copper wires. No Acoustic Revive Tripple CCC copper wire and only one Kemet at the output.

 

 

Wow! This is by far the best ”here-with-me-inside-my-room-feeling” I have ever heard in my setup. A really crazy presence and air! Bass is awesome! Treble is awesome! Dynamics in lows, mids and hights are tremendous! Voices and guitars are putting me on a spell. Impossible to change track ones you’ve started to listen to any track. Fibers, 3D, 4D music glow and everything else is almost impeccable IMO. Fuck shielding. It is capacitors that separates -Ve to +Ve that you REALLY want if you trust me (Kemets or other brands)!???

 

Remember that this is just the beginning! The connection between the wire and Kemets legs is just crazy bad as you can see on the pictures. Still it give me this awesome result. Soldering joints will likely improve the result. The Kemet is just in single. One at each end of the cable will likely be much better IME (I have tried). I have 9 Kemet’s in my setup right now (but will order more tonight). I can only imagine how much they will improve thing further with this mod. Truly isolating the DC cable path. Joy! ??

Do we have a theory as to why the addition of a Kemet, etc., across the v+ & v -  could have such an effect?

[charlesphoto]

Cornan,

 

What type and gauge of wire are you using? My Kemet’s don’t get here until next week - really looking forward to trying them. Last night I shortened the incoming portion to the 3045 of my cable by half. Even more bass! But I know I can do better with the type of wire. 

 

Best,

 

CP

[Cornan]

Just now, BigGuy said:

Do we have a theory as to why the addition of a Kemet, etc., across the v+ & v -  could have such an effect?

 

Yes, we...or atleast I do! ?

A capasitor totally isolates the -Ve from +Ve (think of it kinda like a battery even if it is not). In my current cable just at one end. In my own experience using one capacitor at each end of a DC cable is superior to one. Why? Because both ends probably needs to be isolated to ensure that only -Ve flows in the -Ve wire and only +Ve flows in the +Ve wire and to minimize capasitive coupling. Still I am sure that distance between the wires are important to minimize any capasitive coupling, but not by the same extent since there is no possitive charge present in the negative wire and the other way around. Anyone else are completely free to chim in with their own take on this theory! ?

[Cornan]

20 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Cornan,

 

What type and gauge of wire are you using? My Kemet’s don’t get here until next week - really looking forward to trying them. Last night I shortened the incoming portion to the 3045 of my cable by half. Even more bass! But I know I can do better with the type of wire. 

 

Best,

 

CP

 

I am using 1mm Vanguard silver plated OCC wire. Very cheap on eBay! 

 

Regarding the LT3045. What Vf (voltage forward drop) do you use? Remember that 3 Vf is optimal for single LT3045 and 1 Vf is optimal for series LT3045. Keep any DC cable (before and after LT3045) as short as physically possible for best result. Lastly series LT3045 is significantly better than singles. Even if you combine let’s say 0.5A with 1A. Just make sure to put the highest A closest to the powered device (higher A= better)! ?

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, BigGuy said:

Just one man's opinion but if we know that an open-ended braided shield will act as a Faraday cage unless, as <mansr> has suggested, the cable is on the order of 12 inches in diameter...

...AND we accept Fowler's "superscreened" cable design as being 2 layers of copper braid with a layer of muMetal foil between, then that should work very well.  (NOTE: Fowler does indicate that 3 layers of braid alternated with 2 layers of muMetal foil would yield a "hyper", my word, screened cable.)  The difficult part of Fowler's construction is leaving the gap between the outer surface of the inner braid and the inner surface of the foil without special equipment.

I am going to post treat some cable(s) with this construction tho' I am not quite sure how I can manually creat the gap which according to Fowler greatly changes the inductance and improves screening performance.

 

The other considerable concern is whether  the final construction will take a bend!?

 

Nice! My only concern with shielding in this concept is that shielding degrades SQ IME. Sometimes shielding is a must, but is it really needed in an audiophile setup? Sorry, but I think not! Going after MuMetal is not the key to better SQ in the audiophile world. Air/distance and isolation is the key if you ask me, but do ask others! ?

[Cornan]

All this makes me wonder if the wire gauge does’nt matter? Is it the isolation between -Ve and +Ve that matters in the end? I intend to find out! I will try my mod with a dual Supra Cat 8 wire (two of eight wires) to see if that will change anything. Hopefully tomorrow! ?

[charlesphoto]

31 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I am using 1mm Vanguard silver plated OCC wire. Very cheap on eBay! 

 

Regarding the LT3045. What Vf (voltage forward drop) do you use? Remember that 3 Vf is optimal for single LT3045 and 1 Vf is optimal for series LT3045. Keep any DC cable (before and after LT3045) as short as physically possible for best result. Lastly series LT3045 is significantly better than singles. Even if you combine let’s say 0.5A with 1A. Just make sure to put the highest A closest to the powered device (higher A= better)! ?

 

It’s the ebay Vanguard I’m using for my +ve - .6mm solid silver. The Kemets I ordered were the ones you recommended previously 25v/560uf. Hope that’s correct. Yes, more 3045’s but that will most likely come in the form of the MP Audio’s you are using but later this year. Of course at that point would have to redo the cable as I can’t have one of those hanging  in the air! 

 

 

[Cornan]

9 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

It’s the ebay Vanguard I’m using for my +ve - .6mm solid silver. The Kemets I ordered were the ones you recommended previously 25v/560uf. Hope that’s correct. Yes, more 3045’s but that will most likely come in the form of the MP Audio’s you are using but later this year. Of course at that point would have to redo the cable as I can’t have one of those hanging  in the air! 

 

 

 

Yes, Kemet A750 25v/560uF is what you’ll want! ??

 

I’m quite sure that Vanguard is just as good (or perhaps slightly better/worse) than 1mm dito.

 

You’lll be thrilled with the MP Audio ps. I am 100% sure!  You will however be even more thrilled with LT3045 in series with MP Audio. 100% sure of that one too! ?

 

Not much re-work needed to fit MP Audio in IME! ??

[charlesphoto]

10 minutes ago, Cornan said:

All this makes me wonder if the wire gauge does’nt matter? Is it the isolation between -Ve and +Ve that matters in the end? I intend to find out! I will try my mod with a dual Supra Cat 8 wire (two of eight wires) to see if that will change anything. Hopefully tomorrow! ?

 

Yep. And it may not even matter the quality of wire so much as the wiring layout. It’s fairly early days with low voltage audio devices, so I guess everybody just assumed that better cable but in the traditional analog sense is the best way to go. Personally I’m over the moon with single strand solid wire that’s separated by air solution. Pretty sure it can be finessed even more, but for now the sound is HUGE! 

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

Yep. And it may not even matter the quality of wire so much as the wiring layout. It’s fairly early days with low voltage audio devices, so I guess everybody just assumed that better cable but in the traditional analog sense is the best way to go. Personally I’m over the moon with single strand solid wire that’s separated by air solution. Pretty sure it can be finessed even more, but for now the sound is HUGE! 

 

I am actually very confident that you’re right! The awg of the wire does’nt matter if the i/o have capacitors. Anyway, I intend to put that specific claim to the test sooner than later! ?

[BigGuy]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Nice! My only concern with shielding in this concept is that shielding degrades SQ IME. Sometimes shielding is a must, but is it really needed in an audiophile setup? Sorry, but I think not! Going after MuMetal is not the key to better SQ in the audiophile world. Air/distance and isolation is the key if you ask me, but do ask others! ?

A bit ago I was on the page with starquad construction being the way to go for DC power cords. 

Coming up fast is a parallel construction with an air gap between v+ and v-.

Do we know how close the 4 wires need to be (how tight a twist) for the starquad to be effective for noise cancellation?

Alternatively how loose can the twist/braid be to perhaps marry the benefits?

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

A bit ago I was on the page with starquad construction being the way to go for DC power cords. 

Coming up fast is a parallel construction with an air gap between v+ and v-.

Do we know how close the 4 wires need to be (how tight a twist) for the starquad to be effective for noise cancellation?

Alternatively how loose can the twist/braid be to perhaps marry the benefits?

 

I can only answer from my own perspective. IMO right now the wires should’nt be close at all. The capacitors at each end will ensure that the negative will stay negative and that the positive will

stay positive. Less capacitive coupling. Less plausible EMI/RFI interfearence due to stronger polarity (and stronger rejection to opposite polarity). The closer the opposite polarity wire gets the more capacitive coupling. The more shielding the more capasitive coupling. Air has no capasitive coupling.

[Cornan]

Sorry in advance for the lack of pictures due to dark hours! Anyway, I added another Kemet A750 at the other end of the cable between LS-HPULNs and Brooklyn DAC. This one was soldered to the center legs of the Kemet A750 with Cardas silver solder and isolated with electrical tape.

 

Another great SQ bump! This time with additional naturalness, separation, air, depth, dynamic warmth and physical

presence. F%€*#! nice! ?

Next up will be to solder the other A750 to the legs. This thing stays there forever! ✌??