JCAT's $5000 switch

[Ralf11]

Does it have MQA?

[Superdad]

13 hours ago, marce said:

What is high impedance noise?

 

Not "noise."  High-impedance leakage.  Here is one very specific post from last year:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/?do=findComment&comment=735311

 

And somewhere further on (can't find it at the moment), John explained how he also able to measure leakage currents (and radiation of same) on Ethernet connections, and how, with certain select cheap switches, earth-grounding the zero-volt DC input of those particular switches shunts leakage from ALL the Ethernet devices connected to it.  

 

But much more serious isolation work can be done in a switch--for much less money. 

 

[Ralf11]

5k for this switch makes think about the guy wanted $3k to move my 40 ft. long fence...

[plissken]

35 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Not "noise."  High-impedance leakage.  Here is one very specific post from last year:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/?do=findComment&comment=735311

 

And somewhere further on (can't find it at the moment), John explained how he also able to measure leakage currents (and radiation of same) on Ethernet connections, and how, with certain select cheap switches, earth-grounding the zero-volt DC input of those particular switches shunts leakage from ALL the Ethernet devices connected to it.  

 

But much more serious isolation work can be done in a switch--for much less money. 

 

 

T.I.'s paper on Reducing Radiated Emissions of 10/100 LAN Applications' talked about the weak link in CATx applications being the single ended nature of most power supplies. I think that paper was published in 2008. 

[marce]

11 hours ago, Albrecht said:

"The details of the internal design have to remain confidential. "

 

Means something. You may not like what it means, - but that's *different* than "nothing"

 

You are not the audience for this device, nor are you a potential purchaser, and what your subjective values are on a (potentially better sounding) chip within the switch are not of a concern here. The only concern here is does the device enhance the listening experience within an appropriate context through comparative listening tests, - or does it not?

Your speculations on the basis of the little information provided, - are of little to no value. The audience & potential buyers for this device are those with (likely) a system well north of $200K, - not-lamp-cord-for-speaker-cable naysayers....  Yes, - there's little technical information, - but is not the same as "nothing."

 

""Do this every day for over 30 years and you get the hang of it all and can comment on the content of some posts.""

Of course myself, or anyone else here can comment on the content of posts, and any comments based on LISTENING EXPERIENCES with the devices are always better than the design/EE specs of any device or the experiences of electrical engineers on other designs outside the realm of higher performance audio gear. Since none of us have heard the device,  it's efficacy and ultimate value is yet to be determined. Further, - for most people,  - (me included), it's price alone excludes it from consideration.

 

 

Wow defensive or wot...

I may not like what is means, then educate me on what it means...

For the amount of money this thing cost's I would want more than just a comment it improves the sound... At least some explanation that makes it any different from my £50 netgear switch...

By comparative listening tests I presume you mean proper blind testing

Yep a naysayer with cloth ears, lol... a naysayer who is having a dedicated music room (listening and for playing) that will be fully treated, cost less than this switch, which is the most sensible and effective.

If you bother to look there is plenty of research and measurements on audio signals down cables, the interaction of the amp, cables and speaker system (especially where the speaker is a complex load) go look at the facts, a far better way to choose a cable in my book, one that fits the electrical requirements of the interface and thus is transparent (i.e. has minimal effect on the signal). As I prefer active rather than passive crossovers I use short cables (lessons I learned from doing work on harmonic motor drives in the past, an amp driving a motor.).

I doubt you even read what I wrote, that is the sort of thing that differentiates the mundane from the high end in digital electronics... not some marketing prose with little content and for 5 grand I want a better explanation of why it is a 100X + better than a standard switch (that works perfectly at steering my Ethernet signals to the correct destination). 

[marce]

8 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Not "noise."  High-impedance leakage.  Here is one very specific post from last year:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/?do=findComment&comment=735311

 

And somewhere further on (can't find it at the moment), John explained how he also able to measure leakage currents (and radiation of same) on Ethernet connections, and how, with certain select cheap switches, earth-grounding the zero-volt DC input of those particular switches shunts leakage from ALL the Ethernet devices connected to it.  

 

But much more serious isolation work can be done in a switch--for much less money. 

 

Yes Ti and others have many app notes on common and differential noise control for Ethernet.

 

7 hours ago, plissken said:

 

T.I.'s paper on Reducing Radiated Emissions of 10/100 LAN Applications' talked about the weak link in CATx applications being the single ended nature of most power supplies. I think that paper was published in 2008. 

AN-1868

 

[Solid-State]

And now He selling a lan cable for 900 Eur.

He must be kidding 

 

 

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/2478-signature-lan-cable/

[plissken]

Audiophile Ethernet cables have pretty much been debunked at this point. 

[pkane2001]

2 hours ago, TubeMan said:

And now He selling a lan cable for 900 Eur.

He must be kidding 

 

 

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/2478-signature-lan-cable/

 

1m ethernet cable for 900€. How amazing it must sound!

[Albrecht]

7 hours ago, marce said:

Wow defensive or wot...

I may not like what is means, then educate me on what it means...

For the amount of money this thing cost's I would want more than just a comment it improves the sound... At least some explanation that makes it any different from my £50 netgear switch...

By comparative listening tests I presume you mean proper blind testing

Yep a naysayer with cloth ears, lol... a naysayer who is having a dedicated music room (listening and for playing) that will be fully treated, cost less than this switch, which is the most sensible and effective.

If you bother to look there is plenty of research and measurements on audio signals down cables, the interaction of the amp, cables and speaker system (especially where the speaker is a complex load) go look at the facts, a far better way to choose a cable in my book, one that fits the electrical requirements of the interface and thus is transparent (i.e. has minimal effect on the signal). As I prefer active rather than passive crossovers I use short cables (lessons I learned from doing work on harmonic motor drives in the past, an amp driving a motor.).

I doubt you even read what I wrote, that is the sort of thing that differentiates the mundane from the high end in digital electronics... not some marketing prose with little content and for 5 grand I want a better explanation of why it is a 100X + better than a standard switch (that works perfectly at steering my Ethernet signals to the correct destination). 

"Wow defensive or wot.."

Nope, - and an unqualified accusation does not make it so....

"aysayer who is having a dedicated music room (listening and for playing) that will be fully treated, cost less than this switch, which is the most sensible and effective."

 

Not true, when you're talking about a $200K system, - it is highly likely that folks wanting a system at that level, - will spend much more than 5K. And although I would agree if you said that the room treatments are very important, - room treatments will not necessarily be the most important. 

 

NO MEASUREMENTS ON ANY ONE DEVICE CAN EVER EVER EVER EVER DETERMINE how the overall system will behave!!!!

 

"5 grand I want a better explanation of why it is a 100X + better than a standard switch (that works perfectly at steering my Ethernet signals to the correct destination). "

 

Bully for you. As i wrote, - this switch isn't for you. And, for the right person and the right system, - any explanation will matter not en lieu of it's PERFORMANCE. For this kind of system, - the potential buyer would have already likely spent double that switch on something AC power regeneration, and certainly speaker cables....

 

Lastly, - any switch of this caliber is going to do a lot more for the appropriate system than " steering my Ethernet signals to the correct destination"

 

 

[Albrecht]

47 minutes ago, plissken said:

Audiophile Ethernet cables have pretty much been debunked at this point. 

LOL

and, - not....  as if a subjective experience can be debunked....

 

 

[marce]

1 hour ago, Albrecht said:

 

 

Lastly, - any switch of this caliber is going to do a lot more for the appropriate system than " steering my Ethernet signals to the correct destination"

 

 

BUT that's the whole point of a switch, the sole reason they are on this planet is to switch Ethernet signals to the correct destination. That's it... It's an Ethernet switch.

The other point is non standard Ethernet cables... The reason why they use M12 connectors on Railways etc. is because of the operating environment, to avoid moisture ingress, not really required for a domestic situation, standard Modular connectors (RJ45) will suffice.

As many threads have shown the data gets through unscathed even with basic cables and switches.

[Albrecht]

11 minutes ago, marce said:

BUT that's the whole point of a switch, the sole reason they are on this planet is to switch Ethernet signals to the correct destination. That's it... It's an Ethernet switch.

The other point is non standard Ethernet cables... The reason why they use M12 connectors on Railways etc. is because of the operating environment, to avoid moisture ingress, not really required for a domestic situation, standard Modular connectors (RJ45) will suffice.

As many threads have shown the data gets through unscathed even with basic cables and switches.

Nope, - that is not correct.

It is designed to be a switch in an high end audio system. Just like in a hospital, - there are a different set of requirements/specs/concerns at play.

 

It has already been proven to those who've deployed items like the EMO Systems isolators, FMC / Fiber, better power supplies, have improved the overall SQ of the high performing audio system. These items will likely produce no benefit in a consumer audio system.

""As many threads have shown the data gets through unscathed even with basic cables and switches.""

NO! That is not true. For consumer junk maybe, - but it's likely that the noise carried through affects the performance of the digital player.

 

This is proven out to the listeners who are conducting the tests: the 90%. Naysayers unwilling to test are simply ignorant speculators.... 

[Ralf11]

what are the different set of requirements/specs/concerns at play that affect a purely digital switch ??

[plissken]

3 hours ago, Albrecht said:

LOL

and, - not....  as if a subjective experience can be debunked....

 

 

 

Actually they aren't debunked so much as proven to be unreliable. But I'll take it. 

 

 

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Albrecht said:

Nope, - that is not correct.

It is designed to be a switch in an high end audio system. Just like in a hospital, - there are a different set of requirements/specs/concerns at play.

 

It has already been proven to those who've deployed items like the EMO Systems isolators, FMC / Fiber, better power supplies, have improved the overall SQ of the high performing audio system. These items will likely produce no benefit in a consumer audio system.

""As many threads have shown the data gets through unscathed even with basic cables and switches.""

NO! That is not true. For consumer junk maybe, - but it's likely that the noise carried through affects the performance of the digital player.

 

This is proven out to the listeners who are conducting the tests: the 90%. Naysayers unwilling to test are simply ignorant speculators.... 

 

Marce and others will never change their minds in areas like this unless they are exposed to systems using such measures and are able to hear the clear improvements/ differences for themselves. I never cease to be surprised at the continuing worthwhile small improvements that can be made with further attention to detail. Even a recent change to powering the 3.3V digital area of the Input PCB of my DAC using a .8uV noise 3.3V LT3045 voltage regulator resulted in a further improvement that my 15 year old grandson with ADD noticed. He even switches from Toslink from the TV to Coax SPDIF from a STB when he listens to TV in my room because he prefers the sound that way.

[Ralf11]

I'm just curious how this devices gets around physical law

[Albrecht]

59 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Marce and others will never change their minds in areas like this unless they are exposed to systems using such measures and are able to hear the clear improvements/ differences for themselves. I never cease to be surprised at the continuing worthwhile small improvements that can be made with further attention to detail. Even a recent change to powering the 3.3V digital area of the Input PCB of my DAC using a .8uV noise 3.3V LT3045 voltage regulator resulted in a further improvement that my 15 year old grandson with ADD noticed. He even switches from Toslink from the TV to Coax SPDIF from a STB when he listens to TV in my room because he prefers the sound that way.

Thank you. John Swenson's comments & measurements are also readily available all over the place here: which further elucidates your point. John's testing and reports *SHOULD* carry more weight: but the naysayers jump on him, - outside reason.

Good Engineers also test.

 

[Albrecht]

2 hours ago, plissken said:

 

Actually they aren't debunked so much as proven to be unreliable. But I'll take it. 

 

 

YAWN.. now it's unreliable. To whom? (Naysayers selling their untested agendae)

But of course it's reliable, verifiable, and repeatable: much much moreso than bogus, straw man tests out of context on a single element out of a multifaceted system.

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, Albrecht said:

Thank you. John Swenson's comments & measurements are also readily available all over the place here: which further elucidates your point. John's testing and reports *SHOULD* carry more weight: but the naysayers jump on him, - outside reason.

Good Engineers also test.

 

Unfortunately, very few EEs participating in forums do . Fortunately, Mansr is now open to becoming more involved in this area.

[Ralf11]

When did John Swenson comment on this $5,000 switch ??

 

I missed it - can you post where that is?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

When did John Swenson comment on this $5,000 switch ??

 

He did not and will not.  We have had our own, from the ground-up, project in development for a number of months.

 

[marce]

12 hours ago, Albrecht said:

Nope, - that is not correct.

It is designed to be a switch in an high end audio system. Just like in a hospital, - there are a different set of requirements/specs/concerns at play.

 

It has already been proven to those who've deployed items like the EMO Systems isolators, FMC / Fiber, better power supplies, have improved the overall SQ of the high performing audio system. These items will likely produce no benefit in a consumer audio system.

""As many threads have shown the data gets through unscathed even with basic cables and switches.""

NO! That is not true. For consumer junk maybe, - but it's likely that the noise carried through affects the performance of the digital player.

 

This is proven out to the listeners who are conducting the tests: the 90%. Naysayers unwilling to test are simply ignorant speculators.... 

LOL

Hmmm any empirical data. 

Medical is about galvanic isolation to protect the patients.

[marce]

13 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

what are the different set of requirements/specs/concerns at play that affect a purely digital switch ??

True audio Ethernet Phys should be manufactured from ground up Unicorn horn mixed with 20% pixie dust. Each one has to be blessed by a confirmed Audiophile (system $200K +) as they pass of the production line.

Medical devices are designed to protect patients from stray currents that could harm them.

Audiophile devices are designed to protect the patients from reality.

Next there will be arguments whether M12 or RJ45 sound best....

The best thing about esoteric, questionable overprices audio kit is that someone will always defend it, without question... That,s what wrong with a lot of this hobby, to much unquestionable belief...

 

[marce]

10 hours ago, Albrecht said:

 

But of course it's reliable, verifiable, and repeatable: much much moreso than bogus, straw man tests out of context on a single element out of a multifaceted system.

Your reality is inverted I am afraid, ears only subjective opinions are pretty much just that, opinions without some sort of confirmation...

Funny all that testing and measurements that EE's and other people do in physics, other fields of engineering are worthless, gosh even the ability to type on an Audiophile forum must have happened by accident. Think about your rather silly comment next time your in a plane or a car, or god forbid an operating theatre hooked up to the life support system, be glad that silly engineers tested, tested and tested again, getting confirmation from measurements and results.

Regarding Ethernet, been working on that since it was  transmitted via co-ax with BNC connectors, it was digital then, still is digital, just go quicker and better, I wonder how!!!!!