One and a half Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Thread ignored due to inconclusive agreement. Not really that all surprised. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
davide256 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 39 minutes ago, esldude said: Curious to know what your thinking is to lead you to such a conclusion. The same experience that Scott Adams whimsically talked about for corporate America being afraid of making decisions in the absence of information. Unless your NASA, rigorous testing means you will always be behind the evolving marketplace. You have to decide whats "enough" to be directionally correct. Unless the situation is simple, demand for double blind testing is basically a "filibuster" tactic. sandyk 1 Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
mansr Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 55 minutes ago, esldude said: Curious to know what your thinking is to lead you to such a conclusion. I can tell you what it isn't. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, kumakuma said: Who died and left you in charge? Don't forget that the Audio Ayatollah has issued a Fatwah against the use of science He did, however, make one point that is good to the extent it is relevant: - some audio gear has gotten better since some tests were done - but this is only relevant for specific gear compared, and it seems he did not read the several studies showing the importance of confirmation bias in general Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted January 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2018 36 minutes ago, davide256 said: The same experience that Scott Adams whimsically talked about for corporate America being afraid of making decisions in the absence of information. Unless your NASA, rigorous testing means you will always be behind the evolving marketplace. You have to decide whats "enough" to be directionally correct. Unless the situation is simple, demand for double blind testing is basically a "filibuster" tactic. Okay so about what I expected. An intentional misunderstanding to support a misrepresentation. mansr and sarvsa 2 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
esldude Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Don't forget that the Audio Ayatollah has issued a Fatwah against the use of science He did, however, make one point that is good to the extent it is relevant: - some audio gear has gotten better since some tests were done - but this is only relevant for specific gear compared, and it seems he did not read the several studies showing the importance of confirmation bias in general I told you he had his vaccinations. Including the one against confirmation bias apparently. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, fas42 said: Playing the DBT hand suits those who have little faith in their senses i.e., all those familiar with how senses and perception actually work? You're right! -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 57 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Don't forget that the Audio Ayatollah has issued a Fatwah against the use of science Randy What part of this reply to Dennis were you unable to understand ? Quote You are also well aware that I had enough faith in correctly performed DBTs to work , to submit my reports to someone well qualified to evaluate them. I only did this after previous non sighted evaluation beforehand by several technical friends There is a time and a place for almost everything, but continually demanding DBTs in an Audiophile forum is not one of them ! Especially when people like yourself will always call foul when the results don't go the way you want them to. BTW, I also own , AND use, equipment such as a good DMM, C.R.O, Function Generator, Frequency Counter, Dual Polarity 0 -20V Bench PSU etc. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 this thread is about blind testing post your rants elsewhere, please Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: this thread is about blind testing post your rants elsewhere, please Randy Didn't you even bother to read any of my previous reply ? It was completely on topic ! Quote You are also well aware that I had enough faith in correctly performed DBTs to work , to submit my reports to someone well qualified to evaluate them. I only did this after previous non sighted evaluation beforehand by several technical friends Note also that I mentioned the use of suitable test equipment that I own, yet you dare to accuse me of not using any scientific methodology . Your claim to be a Scientist is seeming even more less likely with every reply you make, as you appear to lack reading comprehension skills despite U.S. English being your native language. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, sandyk said: Note also that I mentioned the use of suitable test equipment that I own, yet you dare to accuse me of not using any scientific methodology . I own a hammer, saw, and tape measure. Even know how to use 'em. Doesn't make me a carpenter. mansr 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, kumakuma said: I own a hammer, saw, and tape measure. Even know how to use 'em. Doesn't make me a carpenter. So you own an "American Screwdriver" too ! Whoopee do ! What has that got to do with Blind Testing ? Do you close your eyes when hammering in a nail ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, sandyk said: So you own an "American Screwdriver" too ! Whoopee do ! What has that got to do with Blind Testing ? Do you close your eyes when hammering in a nail ? Don't know what an American Screwdriver is. I do have dozens of "Canadian Screwdrivers" though (used for Robertson screws). BTW, what does you bragging about owning and using "equipment such as a good DMM, C.R.O, Function Generator, Frequency Counter, Dual Polarity 0 -20V Bench PSU etc." have to do with blind testing? Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, kumakuma said: I own a hammer, saw, and tape measure. Even know how to use 'em. Doesn't make me a carpenter. Exactly. He seems to think that use of certain instruments makes someone a scientist. Sad. kumakuma 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, kumakuma said: Don't know what an American Screwdriver is. I do have dozens of "Canadian Screwdrivers" though (used for Robertson screws). BTW, what does you bragging about owning and using "equipment such as a good DMM, C.R.O, Function Generator, Frequency Counter, Dual Polarity 0 -20V Bench PSU etc." have to do with blind testing? An "American Screwdriver" is an old nickname for a Hammer ! I mentioned the gear that I still own, and use, in part of a reply to Ralf11 who accused me of not using any scientific methodology. Unlike both of you, I have some DIY Electronic skills which need the use of a minimum of test equipment for their optimisation. . How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, pkane2001 said: i.e., all those familiar with how senses and perception actually work? You're right! The senses are supremely capable of making sense of the universe, by "jumping to conclusions" all the time - it means we don't waste unnecessary energy getting things done, because we are forced to constantly analyse, thoroughly, what's going on around us. If we didn't have this happening it would be a nightmare driving, we would be drenched in sweat from the concentration needed to navigate safely to the end of our journey. And so it should be for listening to audio reproduction - if you have to constanly think about whether it's right or not ... well, it's wrong!! Quite simple, really ... The ear/brain has to be fooled into going with the sound, not constantly catching it out as "not getting it quite right" - DBT has absolutely nothing to do with this ... Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, sandyk said: An "American Screwdriver" is an old nickname for a Hammer ! I mentioned the gear that I still own, and use, in part of a reply to Ralf11 who accused me of not using any scientific methodology. Must be an Australian expression... BTW, do you use Robertson screws in Australia? Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, sandyk said: I mentioned the gear that I still own, and use, in part of a reply to Ralf11 who accused me of not using any scientific methodology. ....and there we have it I rest my case. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, fas42 said: The senses are supremely capable of making sense of the universe... so that's how they found those big phaaat bosons!! Standard Model Rules! String "Theory" Drools!! Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Exactly. He seems to think that use of certain instruments makes someone a scientist. Sad. Yes, a scientist is someone who can generate a large screed of numbers by some means, and graphs, and then write a "technical article" about such, throwing in plenty of equations on the way - the fact that the experiment was ill-conceived, badly controlled, and doesn't provide any real answers to anything is quite irrelevant, really ... Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, kumakuma said: Must be an Australian expression... BTW, do you use Robertson screws in Australia? I have nothing further to say to you in this thread. I have better things to do, like completing a DIY 12V 5A battery charger for my car, which has intermittent false intruder alarm problems, which appear to be mainly due to the aging Engine Management System of this 2003 Mitsubishi Magna. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: so that's how they found those big phaaat bosons!! Standard Model Rules! String "Theory" Drools!! That was a mighty jump! ... from driving a car, to understanding the inner workings of the universe - using the exact same human machinery for both ... Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, fas42 said: The senses are supremely capable of making sense of the universe, by "jumping to conclusions" all the time - it means we don't waste unnecessary energy getting things done, because we are forced to constantly analyse, thoroughly, what's going on around us. If we didn't have this happening it would be a nightmare driving, we would drenched in sweat from the concentration needed to navigate safely to the end of our journey. And so it should be for listening to audio reproduction - if you have to constanly think about whether it's right or not ... well, it's wrong!! Quite simple, really ... The ear/brain has to be fooled into going with the sound, not constantly catching it out as "not getting it quite right" - DBT has absolutely nothing to do with this ... DBTs have everything to do with the fact that sensory perception is flawed and often fooled. DBTs are one way to eliminate at least some undue influences and to determine if a change really rises to the level audibility. By your own admission, senses ‘jump to conclusions all the time’. These conclusions are frequently wrong and this makes a more controlled test a must. -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, sandyk said: I have nothing further to say to you in this thread. Sorry. Didn't know that Robertson screws were a delicate subject in Oz. Ralf11 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, sandyk said: I have nothing further to say to you in this thread. I have better things to do, like completing a DIY 12V 5A battery charger for my car, which has intermittent false intruder alarm problems, which appear to be mainly due to the aging Engine Management System of this 2003 Mitsubishi Magna. A Magna man, eh ... I'm keeping an even older one trundling along ... Link to comment
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