MQA Off-Topic Spinoff

[The Computer Audiophile]

20 hours ago, Brian Lucey said:

P.S.  DR=nothing to me. 

That's really too bad. Removing dynamic range can make a recording sound nothing like the artist and recording engineers heard in the studio.

 

Lack of DR can make all the time spent on perfecting one's sound, worthless. 

 

I hope DR stills means something to the front of house engineers. I can't imagine going to a concert that sounded as bad as some records. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, Fair Hedon said:

But you do understand that Brian and other mastering engineers receive mixes that already have lowish DR..and that IS what the artist intended.

I understand that completely, notice the difference between what the artist heard in the studio (my words) and what the artist intended (your words). Dr is an artistic decision, as is the selection of microphone and guitar. 

 

However, when someone says DR = nothing to me, that's very concerning. I'd love to know if artists had to listen to their own dynamically compressed music every night on the road if they'd think twice about it. If they still like it, maybe they need to get instruments and microphones with far less dynamic range, to reduce what is necessary in the DAW. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

 

DR = nothing means that I'M NOT A DOGMATIC ASSHOLE.   I am interested in the most MUSICAL result GIVEN THE SITUATION.

 

My louder records are ALL BETTER SOUNDING THAN THE MORE DYNAMIC MIXES.  Dynamics iS NOT THE MAIN THING in music.

 

Maybe it is to you?  Ok.

Dude, no need to YELL. Despite what you think, audiophiles tend to be a smart bunch, capable of comprehending well structured sentences. Just ask our readers here who are sending rockets to the ISS and operating on people’s brains. 

 

Thus, when you say DR = nothing, we must take you at your word. You are the one who mentioned being a dogmatic asshole. Not sure where that came from. When I interviewed Neil Young, he told me “Dynamic Range is king.” When you appealed to his authority earlier in the thread, I thought you may also believe what he says. 

 

Who isn’t interested in the most musical result? You say that like it’s a foreign concept to others. I’ll take Pearl Jam on an AM radio over ultra dynamic Scottish nose whistle at 32/284 kHz. It’s aleays about the music. 

 

DR can never be the main thing. But it’s something. According to you it’s nothing. That’s sad. I love hearing real instruments sound like real instruments. Drums sound like drums rather than sticks hitting paper. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, Brian Lucey said:

Being intelligent and understanding how records are made, are discrete.  I don't see a lot of understanding here.

 

Sorry to YELL yet YOU ALL SEEM DEAF TO THE REALITY.  Maybe it's a matter of ignorance, so I am sharing.

 

DR as a number on an island means nothing.  Those measuring have no idea what is going on in the production team. We are given a set of mixes.  The artist signs off.  The article describes my aims, and Neil agrees.

 

DR as a main priority in mastering is not correct.  It's a factor, yet a record that moves air can measure with less dynamics than a flat sounding one.  Listen, don't measure.  That is #1.

 

My work is always more punchy than the mixes, always.  Even when it's louder.  How is this possible?  Transients = emotion not just overall DR.  

 

I will simply push if asked, until it breaks, to my taste.  Which is obviously shared by many.

When I try to send dynamic work ... it is rejected ... 99% of the time.   1 in 100 or 200 asks for a more dynamic record.

 

 

You’re projecting a reality that doesn’t exist. In your mind nobody here understands anything and nobody listens to you. We are all deaf to the reality in your world. Nothing could be further from the truth. 

 

We we are a bunch of people who love music, great sound, and information. 

 

if you don’t see a lot of understanding here, feel free to help people rather than project some strange reality on a large group of people. 2 million people will visit The site this year. Not sure you should pigeon hole every one based on the comments of one or two.

 

Of course DR numbers by themselves mean nothing. I don’t see anyone here that would disagree. Just like your Model 2 by itself means nothing. It’s capable of great sound in the right hands. DR in the right situation can make something really great.  

 

I haven’t seen anyone say “DR [is] a main priority in mastering.” Your putting words in people’s mouths, projecting. 

 

You'd probably have many fans here if you’d take everyone seriously and as individuals, without projecting some weird audiophile stereotype on us. 

 

We all understand the company paying the bills has the final say with respect to the sound of a record. If they didn’t they’d move on to the next engineer. 

 

We like dynamic range. That’s not a bad thing. We own many versions of the same recordings, all with different DR values. For the most part, those with higher DR sound better. We love music. Better sounding recordings help us love music even more. We feel closer to the artist. When Miles Davis, Jack Johnson, or Eddie Vedder sound like they are in our rooms, it’s an amazing experience. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, Fair Hedon said:

It is rather presumptuous to tell current bands like Cage The Elephant, Ray Lamontagne, The Black Keys, and hundreds  of others that their records should sound like Led Zeppelin II or Hotel California.

I’d never tell that to anyone. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

 

Your taste is stuck in time

 

You are old.

 

That's sad.

 

I like all eras of music.

I’m 41. Your ageism is pretty sad. I have a preference for real sounding instruments. That’s got nothing to do with age. 

 

I’ve had the new Taylor Swift on repeat for days. I love it. Gaga’s Joanne record is amazing, can’t stop listening. Big fan of Nicki Minaj and Kendrick Lamar. Earlier today I was listening to Billie Holliday and reading as much as I could about her life. Being at Capitol Studios a few weeks ago was an amazing experience because Nat King Cole is one of my all time favorites. 

 

Pigeon holing me only shows your ignorance Brian. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Fair Hedon said:

Understood. From your posts I am aware you do listen to a lot of modern music, which is great.

 

I come across to many audiophiles who have not bought a single album released after 1985 and time does not stand still. 

I try to consume as much music as possible. Music makes me feel good. I expose my 5 year old daughter to everything from 1940 to today. 

 

On on the way to the store this evening she was singing The Killers newish track The Man. We love that song. Great stuff. 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 hours ago, Brian Lucey said:

 

Look brother, you started this with your dynamic range elitism, now you listen to modern music that's at -5? 

 

I won't reply to you further.  You are talking in circles just to win an argument.

 

 

 

You sound like a politician using your own facts in the face of the real facts of our discussion right above your very post. 

 

Nobody here is a DR elitist. We like DR when we can get it. We ask questions about why more records don’t have it. That doesn’t make us anything but people with preferences and interested in more information about how records are made. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

I understand this fully. And with the notice that it was my complaint (a couple of pages back) that Crime of The Century has a too high DR, I could tell Chris @The Computer Audiophile that it is exactly that one where drums (kick drum ahead) sound like paper. Odd eh ...

 

But @Brian Lucey, the sort of mistake you may make here (it would be a thinking mistake) is that where higher dynamics will overdrive the (bass) driver and only imply distortion instead of pushed air, this is a fault in the loudspeaker of concern; It is not fast enough.

Now of course you could try to tell us that 99% of even audiophiles don't use fast enough drivers, but that would be a bit of BS IMHO because with a solution like yours we don't even have the opportunity to fix it.

Your solution implies woolly bass, if that would be an English term for the opposite of taut.

 

I'd agree that for many a "slow down" solution could work out for the better, but once you start referring to the smash board top 100 ...

No. And never.

 

Peter

 

 

Wider DR isn’t responsible for bad sounding drums. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

Stop it already. This bickering is distracting from the real conversation. Brian delivers what his clients desire, as should any professional. If you happen to not share those tastes, then don't listen to that music. Now get back to exterminating MQA.

Thanks. Back on topic. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, Abtr said:

 

Narrower DR? And the drums on the DR16 MFSL release of Crime Of The Century may sound too thin because the relative volume is too low. Overall DR compression could fix that.

Turn up the volume. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

This is the most arrogant, ignorant and ridiculous thing you have said so far.

People are posting comments from a good place and a place of curiosity and their limited knowledge. Often we learn about other industries from what we can read online. 

 

You have a golden opportunity to shed light on your industry with people who actually care about what you do and will support you. Please consider giving people the benefit of the doubt by not calling them arrogant, ignorant, and ridiculous. They honestly are posting from a good place. 

 

Letting people know how it really works, or the real story could be incredibly valuable for everyone. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

Would you like to tune all the vocals to eliminate the errors?  Perfection has NO place in music production.   None.

I agree about perfection. I don’t like it. However, I wish auto tune as a way to “perfect” vocals was used less. It’s a cool effect when used like T-Pain. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Give the guy a break already. He came here to offer his perspective, as a mastering engineer, on MQA, and you lot attacked him like a pack of wild dogs, lecturing him on how he should be doing his job. It's only natural for him to get a little defensive.

Still searching for those attacks. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

15 minutes ago, mansr said:

You participated quite eagerly.

Didn't launch a single attack. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Wow, @Brian Lucey  I don't know where to begin. I just went back over all your posts and the posts interacting with you. (Yes, I know you said need a new hobby. However, this site isn't my hobby. I created this site ten years ago to help people get the most out of what you produce in the studio and to help people find more of your products to purchase. This site is my full time job that feeds my family. Yes, we have over 2 million unique readers per Google Analytics. ) We must be from different planets because I just see things so differently, with respect to these interactions. I don't see people attacking you. I see people stating opinions, you getting a bit defensive, and these same people actually apologizing for possibly offending you.  We're all different and see things differently. 

 

I honestly wish this would have turned out differently. Many people on this site agree with you 100% about MQA. Most people on this site want to learn from you about your craft. We eat up every ounce of information we can get about how our favorite music is created. Music is so important to our lives that we spend absurd amounts of money reproducing it in our homes and purchasing / streaming it over and over. We hire engineers to speak at our events because we love to learn about this stuff. Last month I asked Al Schmitt about recording Shelby Lynne and the answer I got was something I'll never forget. Now, when I listen to her Just A Little Lovin' album, I feel like I know something about how it was made and that I have a better connection to the music. Again, 99% of us love to learn about this stuff. I just wish we could have started on the right foot. 

 

To be honest, I'd love to meet you in person. I have a feeling our conversations would be way different. I'm heading to LA in a few weeks and honestly would love to stop by. However, I'm not one to invite myself or impose. Perhaps you see it differently.

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, Charles Hansen said:

 

Hello Chris,

 

As I seem to recall, you started this website under somewhat deceptive practices. Perhaps not as bad as Mark Zuckerberg deliberately stealing Facebook from his two programmer "friends" that actually created the platform, but not altogether different either.

 

You were trolling at a bunch of forums, swearing that you just wanted information for your own curiosity, and then a few months later launched this website with the sole intent of making money.

 

Please tell me if I overlooked something.

 

PS - Karma is a bitch.

Hi Charles - You couldn’t be further from the truth. 

 

As I’ve said countless times in interviews, I started looking for information online about computer audio and ran into nothing but a shit show. So, I decided to start the site myself. 

 

Karma is bitch for those with a grudge, who spew partial truths, and have no interest in the real facts. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, Charles Hansen said:

 

You are denser than I thought. Apple could buy all three labels with pocket change, except that it would cause a lot of legal problems in anti-trust (only in Europe, not here in the corrupt US).

 

Just as in court, money talks. It's almost always the person who can afford the better attorney that wins.

Your personal attack calling me dense is against the rules of CA. 

 

You our call me dense, but then counter your own argument by saying your scenario can’t even happen and offering zero reasons why mine is false. 

 

I originally thought you brought interesting information to this site, but after many poorly researched (at best) and libelous (at worst) attacks on other companies, I’ve changed my mind. You’re a wolf in sheeps clothing. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, mansr said:

Why so confrontational? I don't know what went down back then, but today Chris runs one of the best audiophile forums. So what if he makes some money off it?

Thanks mansr. We don’t always get along but I respect you and what you do. 

 

Yes, I have been able make a little money to feed my family and stop working for Fortune 500 companies who couldn’t care less about employees. I also see nothing wrong with this. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - I'll be moving the off-topic posts from the MQA Vaporware thread over here, as a way to keep that one curated. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, Charles Hansen said:

When Brian Lucey (who is equally expert in his field) posted here, Chris let anybody and everybody take pot-shots at him, whether on-topic or completely off-topic.

Still looking for those pot shots. 

 

Just because someone is considered an expert, doesn't mean they are off limits to being questioned. 

 

 

For example, some consider you an expert in HiFi. I will always question you about your active advocating of wood cable elevators in a HiFi system. This questioning isn't a pot shot and should be allowed no matter who you are. You, nor Brian, nor I are ministers of information. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 hours ago, Brian Lucey said:

Loudness is part of the modern cocktail, it's not however getting worse, it's getting a little better.   However it's settling far too high for some people.  Fair enough.  I am happy with most of my records from my own listening standpoint, and all of them from a service standpoint.

 

This seems like a topic where older people want the go back in time, and like ALL FORMS OF FUNDAMENTALISM, is wrong thinking IMO.

 

The world was not better once upon a time.  That's a conservative ideology used to control others.  I reject it as a fact.

 

The best time for music, is now.

4

 

I'm not sure how one can say loudness is getting better or worse. It's art. Loudness may be getting different. If everyone was going for the same result, then it would be entirely possible to use the terms better or worse. 

 

I don't believe art should be judged. I find all awards shows preposterous.

 

I also don't think this is about people wanting to go back in time. There are still records made with wide dynamic range, that sound incredible. Have a listen to this snippet. DR of 15 rock and roll -  https://cdn.computeraudiophile.com/tmp/4.flac.zip

 

Back in the day, synthesizers were the thing. Anyone not using them and embracing them could have been seen as an old fundamentalist.

 

I think this just comes down to change and artistic decisions. It has nothing to do with longing for the old days. It's art.

 

I love Van Gogh paintings. Nobody paints like him today. That doesn't mean I'm old and resisting change. It just means I have a preference for a certain style that was done between 1853 and 1890. There can be no right or wrong with art. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Yes. I just disabled it. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

14 minutes ago, crenca said:

Anyone know how Roon enables, disables, or ignores this Tidal feature?

 

Roon ignores this feature. No way to even mess with it for the end user. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

23 minutes ago, firedog said:

I don't see it anywhere in my desktop. Where do you see it?

I believe it’s only for the mobile clients.