Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[elan120]

56 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

That's cool 👍 wait for it to fully burn-in and you will then be highly rewarded.

 

Did you try playing Native DSD content ?

 

 

Not yet playing with Native DSD files, but for sure will do that tomorrow.  I speculate my server will upsample DSD files to DSD1024 with no issue, which I will report back with results.

 

Hope you will get yours soon, it is very joyful listens to this new setup.

[luisma]

so the difference with the Amanero board is night and day @elan120?

[JamesBardsley]

See below para from @austinpop review iof the Terminator.

So I'm interested in whether, if I got Roon, I could use Roon's "precise, minimum phase" filter to upsample Tidal PCM content to 352.8/384 before sending it to my dCS NB and then to the Terminator via dual AES/EBU cables?

And would thsat sound better than 16/44 PCM?

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/my-quest-for-a-new-dac-part-3-denafrips-terminator-r740/

Oversampling and Filtering

According to Mr. Zhao, designer of the Terminator, "In OS mode, it is oversampling to PCM384 / DSD256 respectively. The filter is undisclosed." It didn't take me long to discern the Terminator sounded much better in OS mode (i.e. NOS OFF). The difference was not subtle. The soundstage was more expansive, and the sound was just more refined across the board. OS stayed on for the rest of the evaluation.

Exploring this further, I experimented with upsampling using Roon's DSP. Upsampling PCM content to 352.8/384 using the "precise, minimum phase" filter, I heard a pretty nice bump in sound quality, over and above the Terminator's built-in OS. In the past, I seem to have gravitated to DACs that did not particularly benefit from SW upsampling, so this experience was a new one for me. I kept this setting for the remainder of my evaluation, and the comparisons. Note: I did not upsample DSD input streams. 

I know people will ask - why not HQPlayer? As I've explained previously, my upstream chain has been optimized around a low-powered music server, the Innuos Zenith SE, which does not have the horsepower to run HQPlayer, and is not (yet) supporting HQPlayer's NAA endpoint.  

Given my experience, I would strongly encourage people considering this DAC evaluate it with upstream software upsampling and filters.

[elan120]

15 minutes ago, luisma said:

so the difference with the Amanero board is night and day @elan120?

This is the part I won't be able to test, as my Terminator came with the new DSP board.

[Ricardo007]

there is not much info on the new board regarding the difference/value added vis-à-vis amanero card when using USB input on terminator DAC.

 

I understand Amanero card has no isolation and no reclocking (that's why there are Hermes and Cronus options offered):

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/amanero.aspx. Any info on your side?

 

Does the new board incorporates isolation and reclocking OR not? If not, an Isoregen module just before the terminator DAC could still be useful...

[Dev]

10 hours ago, elan120 said:

Not yet playing with Native DSD files, but for sure will do that tomorrow.  I speculate my server will upsample DSD files to DSD1024 with no issue, which I will report back with results.

 

Hope you will get yours soon, it is very joyful listens to this new setup.

 

If you have DSD content, you can try playing without up-sampling and see if it can play Native or Dop. Though I am told that the receiver is UAC2.0 complaint which will play PCM without issues, the native DSD playback is still unknown at this point until someone tries it out. 

[elan120]

20 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

If you have DSD content, you can try playing without up-sampling and see if it can play Native or Dop. Though I am told that the receiver is UAC2.0 complaint which will play PCM without issues, the native DSD playback is still unknown at this point until someone tries it out. 

That sounds like a good test.  I will check it tonight and let you know as I have a small collections of DSD64 files, and I will run them native as well as upsampled to see how they work out.

[luisma]

6 hours ago, elan120 said:

This is the part I won't be able to test, as my Terminator came with the new DSP board.

hahaha ok then

I will

 

[elan120]

2 minutes ago, luisma said:

hahaha ok then

I will

 

Cool...will you be getting your DSP board soon?

[alvin1118]

Alvin is working very hard to get the DSP board shipped. Hang on 😎

[elan120]

9 hours ago, Dev said:

 

If you have DSD content, you can try playing without up-sampling and see if it can play Native or Dop. Though I am told that the receiver is UAC2.0 complaint which will play PCM without issues, the native DSD playback is still unknown at this point until someone tries it out. 

Confirmed.  Runs fine without issue.

 

[Dev]

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

Confirmed.  Runs fine without issue.

 

 

Thanks for the confirmation. Do you know if its playing Native or Dop ? HQP settings would tell you if its SDM or Dop.

[elan120]

1 minute ago, Dev said:

 

Thanks for the confirmation. Do you know if its playing Native or Dop ? HQP settings would tell you if its SDM or Dop.

I did both ways, and no issue in either case, so looks like a go.

[Abyss Man]

Guys,

With this new DSP board, do you think we can forgo any DDC like Gustard U16 or singxer U6 in the chain which we use for is2 connection? Thank you. Reason I am asking is cause I am thinking of dumping my Gustard U16 and get a Singxer U6. Thank you lots in advance.

[elan120]

3 minutes ago, Abyss Man said:

Guys,

With this new DSP board, do you think we can forgo any DDC like Gustard U16 or singxer U6 in the chain which we use for is2 connection? Thank you. Reason I am asking is cause I am thinking of dumping my Gustard U16 and get a Singxer U6. Thank you lots in advance.

Just a quick note...if you plan on sending upsampled PCM1536/DSD1024 signals to this new DSP board, then yes, you have to forgo any DDC currently on the market, since none of them support these rates.  If not, it will be interesting to compare whether I2S is better than USB or other inputs.

 

Mine is still in the beginning phase of burn-in, but for now, I am quite happy running upsampled PCM1536 or DSD512 signals through USB input.

[Dev]

10 minutes ago, Abyss Man said:

Guys,

With this new DSP board, do you think we can forgo any DDC like Gustard U16 or singxer U6 in the chain which we use for is2 connection? Thank you. Reason I am asking is cause I am thinking of dumping my Gustard U16 and get a Singxer U6. Thank you lots in advance.

 

I have tried the Matrix SPDIF2 and Singxer SU6. After using them for prolonged time I moved back to USB direct as the DDC's sounded thin compared. Introducing a DDC in-between puts a big requirement on what power supply is being used with them. If they aren't top notch and assuming your streamer is excellent, you are better off going direct to USB - at least this is what I have found in my system.

[Dev]

28 minutes ago, elan120 said:

I did both ways, and no issue in either case, so looks like a go.

 

Thanks. That's a big assurance to know when I get mine, its good to go right off the bat 🙂

 

[Abyss Man]

18 hours ago, Dev said:

 

I have tried the Matrix SPDIF2 and Singxer SU6. After using them for prolonged time I moved back to USB direct as the DDC's sounded thin compared. Introducing a DDC in-between puts a big requirement on what power supply is being used with them. If they aren't top notch and assuming your streamer is excellent, you are better off going direct to USB - at least this is what I have found in my system.

Hi Dev,

I will give a shot, I am currently using Zenith Mk2 and my USB cables are Tellurium Silver Diamond, come to think of it, I never really bothered trying out the other inputs on the Terminator as i was always under the impression that is2 is best. Hope I land the new DSP board soon. For now testing begins without a DDC. Thank you sir.

[Abyss Man]

18 hours ago, elan120 said:

Just a quick note...if you plan on sending upsampled PCM1536/DSD1024 signals to this new DSP board, then yes, you have to forgo any DDC currently on the market, since none of them support these rates.  If not, it will be interesting to compare whether I2S is better than USB or other inputs.

 

Mine is still in the beginning phase of burn-in, but for now, I am quite happy running upsampled PCM1536 or DSD512 signals through USB input.

Hi Elan,

U are using Audionirvana to upsample before feeding the DAC? I am using ROON and I don't upsample but I do have some DSD tracks. Any recommendations. My streamer is the Zenith Mk2. Thank you sir.

[elan120]

4 minutes ago, Abyss Man said:

Hi Elan,

U are using Audionirvana to upsample before feeding the DAC? I am using ROON and I don't upsample but I do have some DSD tracks. Any recommendations. My streamer is the Zenith Mk2. Thank you sir.

I am using HQPlayer to do upsampling, and have tried using Roon in the past, but isn't as good as HQPlayer.  If you were asking what music player I would recommend to run upsampling, then it would be HQPlayer.

[luisma]

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

I am using HQPlayer to do upsampling, and have tried using Roon in the past, but isn't as good as HQPlayer.  If you were asking what music player I would recommend to run upsampling, then it would be HQPlayer.

Hi Elan don't remember if I asked you this before, have you tried recently Roon directly no upsampling to the DAC? Or HQP pass-through? I recently changed my speakers and Roon direct no upsampling with dac in NOS mode sounds very good, HQP creates a different atmosphere for the sound which didn't before and it could be the new speakers but I'm just curious 

[elan120]

2 hours ago, luisma said:

Hi Elan don't remember if I asked you this before, have you tried recently Roon directly no upsampling to the DAC? Or HQP pass-through? I recently changed my speakers and Roon direct no upsampling with dac in NOS mode sounds very good, HQP creates a different atmosphere for the sound which didn't before and it could be the new speakers but I'm just curious 

I have done setup comparisons between Roon Bridge and HQPlayer NAA in AL, with Roon Bridge, it was without upsampling, although it was good, but in the end, I still prefer HQPlayer running upsampling to DSD512.  I have not try this with this new Terminator, which I might do a revisit when I am done with burn-in.

 

If you have a setup that you think I should try, please let me know your settings, and I will see if I can replicate your setup here.

[luisma]

Thanks, I will do more testing and post back here once you are completed burnin in the new DSP for confirmation and sharing configs.

 

[luisma]

I thought I should post this, for those of you still on amanero board don't waste the opportunity of PCM only to the DAC, better IMO than DSD, if you have the ability to upsample PCM 48 kbps, 384 might be thinner. Give it a try and send feedback if possible. NOS as well 

 

[Kotra]

I have paid since middle of May for the new DSP board and it was promised to be delivered after 3 weeks

It is almost middle of July and the only news that we have is that the DSP board is under testing 

I would like to know if anyone has received the long promised new DSP board