ISO REGEN launch thread! (product web page up; photos, etc.)

[Superdad]

35 minutes ago, Forehaven said:

So I thought someone might've received their ISORegen's yet?

 

Shipment promise date for the first batch was always May 16th-19th.  We got slowed down by the logistics of this first batch (6 variations when you consider the 3 power supply choices--none, SMPS. or LPS-1 bundle--plus standard or 90-deg. rotated 'B' plug on USPCB), plus an error I made in SKU set-up that is forcing me to do a lot of manual stuff for the international-bound units.

 

The first 120 units are leaving here in about 3 hours.  (My assistant showed up at 7:00 a.m. this morning, and I was preparing the shipping labels and docs until 11 last night.)  So despite this being not all 250 of the first run (see the other thread for the draw of that saga), we once again are shipping a new product on time!

 

[To those of you who got in on the mid-May promised batch (up through order #5449): If you do not receive a notice with tracking number around 2:00 p.m. (Pacific time) today, then your order will be filled within days of our receiving back the boards that were sent to have the one defective part swapped out.  That should be right at the end of this month.  And if your order (#5450 and above) was promised for early-June delivery, we are still on track for that as parts production is concurrent with everything else.

[Superdad]

41 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

And this is maybe a good reason to use a very good DDC. (USB to SPSIF converter).

 

I've notice the SU-1 use the same clock as the ISO regen by the way. 

 

I hope @Superdad and @JohnSwenson will come up with a super DDC soon. 

 

I think replasing my F1 or hiFace EVO (think they sound equal in my system) must be my next upgrade.

I can't see an UltraRendu will make any difference, as long as I have an ISO regen.

 

As my understanding is to put the best clock as close to your DAC as possible. This may also be a reason for not adding an audiophile switch I guess. 

 

Any thaughts ?

 

Folks are still getting DAC/DDC clocks mixed up with processor clocks! (Please reread scan's posts or John's on the subject.)

 

Even though Crystek (for example) makes the ultra-low-phase-noise CCHD-575 in both audio DAC frequencies (22.5792MHz, 24.576MHz and multiples of) and, on a custom basis at whole number rates as used for Ethernet, USB, FPGAs, and other processors (e.g. 24.0MHz and 25.0MHz)--they really are in different worlds.  There is no doubt that the 575 in the ISO REGEN is highly worthwhile (we directly compared SQ between identical boards with different clocks), but we think the 575 is about the limit of what is needed for a USB data clock.

 

However, for a DAC's audio master clocks (or the audio freq. clocks in a USB>S.PDIF converter which get embedded in the SPDIF/AES stream and supplant the DAC's clocks (though often a DAC will reclock that input), that is where no expense should be spared (though the rest of most DACs add more jitter from their circuitry and never get the full benefit of an über-expensive clock).

[Superdad]

Hey, I just started a new thread for ISO REGEN Listening Impressions and it has some pictures you gents will want to see!

By the way, @Jud and @lmitche: The embargo is now lifted and you are free to post what you have heard with ISO REGEN so far (they were beta testers and were sent final units as I was on my way to vacation on April 29th).

 

[Superdad]

13 minutes ago, scan80269 said:

...I heard from my wife that she got into a car accident just a quarter mile from home!  A Lyft driver made an unsafe left turn and crashed into my wife's month-old Mercedes C300 (she was going straight with right-of-way), which then hit a pedestrian crossing sign pole.  A total of 4 airbags deployed.  She seems to have sustained only some bruises on the hands (from the airbag) and a scrape on the shoulder (from the seat belt), but I'll need to bring her to be checked out more thoroughly.

 

Oh no Sam, that is terrible!!  I hope your wife is okay.  Please keep us posted.  

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, scan80269 said:

ISO REGEN is not a USB3 hub. 

 

Gosh Sam, go take care of your traumatized wife.  Or go listen to the ISO REGEN's you received.  You are officially off-duty tonight for answering forum questions!  

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

That has been stated by the designer and the proprietor many times here, already!

 

To be more fair, I am sure that all we ever said was that upstream changes will matter less.  EVERY USB device has a PHY processor at its input (even if it is integrated into its hub chip or protocol engine--such as XMOS), and will thus be susceptible to some extent to upstream signal integrity.  So while the ISO REGEN outputs great SI, variations at its input can still have a effect (e.g. you will still hear some differences between USB cables)

The galvanic isolation added by the ISO REGEN takes care of other problems (no time to write about that this morning).

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

21 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

The real question is, does a passive GI better an active one like the ISO?  Or would a combination of passive and active be better yet?  ex. uRendu/ISO

Would the ISO Regen be more beneficial if tied into a master clock?  ex. SOTM sclk EX

Is it better to have superior clocking after a GI?  Passive?  Active?  Combination?

Does reclocking help preceding an active GI such as the ISO?

 

That's quite the word salad there!   But I'll reply to a couple of those vegetables anyway.

 

a) There is no such thing as "passive" galvanic isolation for USB data.

 

b) The Crystek CCHD-575 has the lowest phase-noise of any affordable (i.e. under $500) production clock. There are limits to the beneficial effect of low jitter clocks for processor clocking (as opposed to audio master clocking), and while upstream clocks may put a "fingerprint" on the data, it is hard to rationalize having the USB clock be of vastly lower phase-noise than the DAC's clocks.

 

[Superdad]

No offense meant to anyone here.  We love the curiosity and interest in pushing the boundaries of what is possible.  But I would really prefer that the fervency of this discussion simmer down a bit until a few hundred more users get their ISO REGENs and experience it as the singular product is was designed to be.  All else is is distracting (at least to me) and I am sure rather confusing to others that come here wanting to learn about the product.  It works and sounds great all on its own--and the very first people receiving them are discovering and reporting over in the Listening Impressions thread.

 

Thanks very much,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I think i may have to purchase something from this paranoid guy that just closed his thread.

 

Hi Andreas:

Please try to consider the immense pressure that both UpTone and Sonore are under.  Not seen is all the daily work (I have a mountain of it!) required to produce and deliver products, to move new products forward, to support the existing and prospective users (my e-mail box would make your hair stand on end), and to deal with questions and speculation on the forums.

Jesus and I may have different styles in how we handle these things--and how we handle the forums (I'll delete provocative or wildly off-topic posts)--but the reality for our separate companies is similar.

Lastly, despite John engineering products for both of us, our projects are separate as are our plan for the future!

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

It can't be that fun for a person so passionate about his work, and share almost everything with us being denied to explain all the potential customers what they probably like to know before the final decision of a purchase. 

 

While John and I would love to publicly share everything--and quite frankly we share WAY more than most manufacturers--you need to understand that we operate in a small and competitive niche, and it would be very poor business judgement for us to reveal all current methods, new ideas, or product plans.  

Manufacturers in high-end audio watch each other, and without naming names I can say that both UpTone and Sonore have had its concepts and designs copied.  My approach is to try to move quickly and innovate, and our future plans and products will contain plenty of truly unique techniques.

Based on our respective desires, mixed in large part with radical brainstorms that John has, both Sonore and UpTone have good things planned.  But we will NOT be talking about them 4-9 months ahead of release!

 

Andreas, I do not know what information you think you are being denied.  We have been very clear about what the ISO REGEN does and how it does it.  It is all on the web page.   If you want to know how it sounds in comparison or in combination with other products, then you will need to try them--or wait for others to report about it.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, rajacat said:

Does anybody have a photo of the ISO REGEN connected to their DAC using the 90 degree USPCB A>B adapter?

 

Sure Roy, here you go:

[Superdad]

37 minutes ago, kalinka said:

@Superdad So, not willing to be annoying, but do you already know when the second wave of iso regens will begin to ship?

 

I'll know more in a day or two.  Waiting on board production and some parts are stuck in customs.  But we expect to have enough boards by June 1--to then test, assemble, and finish shipping in the few days after that--to cover all the rest of the folks who were originally promised May 16-19 shipping (order #s up to and including #5449).

 

250 more boards after that will hopefully arrive by June 8th, and then we can jump on all "second run orders," #5450 and above.  I hate parts delays; really tough when some parts are "sole-source" only.

 

Thanks for your patience. 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

That has been answerd already. Next week he indicated.

 

Actually, what I said was that more boards would be arriving June 1st (now looks more like Friday the 2nd), and then we would begin test, assembly, and shipment--the following week of June 5th (though yeah, I'll probably work the weekend testing--my new Lecroy USB protocol analyzer is really neat, but each board takes about 2 minutes to certify).

 

Really sorry for the delay, though I think my e-mail/post of May 15th estimating a 3-week delay (beyond the original May 16-19th plan) is looking quite accurate.  Thanks again for your patience everyone.

 

Beyond catching up with those 135 late-fulfillment orders are another 175 to build and ship--most of those promised for "early-June" as well.  Plus, right now about 75 overall are for ISO REGEN/LPS-1 bundles.

So yes, success, but also a lot of pressure!  (It's not like I have a whole staff of people to help execute all this. And boy am I behind on things like accounting--and oh yeah, paying out those $50 rebates to about 75 of you. ) 

 

At least this batch of 14 JS-2s is about finished (test/burn-in over the weekend for the last 6) and out the door.  For a change we may actually end up with 2-3 left on the shelf for a few days.  

Have a great weekend everyone!

 

--Alex C.

 

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, Speed Racer said:

So, is the "moat" is kind of shallow and the isolation is incomplete? At least that is what I get from John's comments. Can Alex or John detail what gets through?

 

No, the "moat" is complete.  Full galvanic isolation (put a meter across the shells of the two USB jacks and you will not get a beep). But data, while also isolated, has to cross over. And what John was explaining/hypothesizing is that "stuff" gets "baked" into the data (sorry, its Friday and my fingers are tired of typing).

[Superdad]

I have (but am not presently using) the ICRON 2304GE-LAN.  That's the only version that can both work through a network switch and support isochronous audio/video streaming.

 

While I have only tried it with a Ethernet cable (Belden Cat6A) direct between its boxes (skipping any LAN switch), and used a pair of LPS-1s to power the REX end (downstream side), I can say it works quite nicely and does not seen to do any harm sonically.  In fact, on its own, it is an improvement.  

There is nothing special about its output signal integrity or clock, so it (or should I more correctly say the DAC) does still benefit from the ISO REGEN afterwards.

[Superdad]

51 minutes ago, ciccio1112 said:

Ciao a tutti hi Alex, ho fatto l'ordine di rigenerazione ISO con LPS1 esattamente quattro minuti dopo l'inizio delle vendite, UA numero web # 5353. non ho ancora avuto alcuna e-mail di spedizione in attesa di avere i prodotti. Posso sapere dove siamo ?? Grazie. Michele

 

Hi Michele:

I hope you received the May 15th e-mail sent to all first 250 buyers with regards to the 3-week delay for about half of you.  While you ordered in the first 4 minutes, that still put you in 150th place behind so many others (that was a crazy first 5 minutes!).

 

Lots of good news / bad news to report:

 

The good news is that we will be shipping about 100 more units tomorrow, June 9th (and Michele, yours should be among them).

The bad news is that not everyone from the first, (May 19th-promised) group (order #5449 and below) will be shipped tomorrow.  

The good news is that another 250 ISO REGEN circuit boards also arrive to us tomorrow.

The bad news is that testing every one of them carefully takes time (truth is that the isolator chips vary and we have to screen carefully), about 5 minutes each.  

Then we still have to assemble, kit, sort all the variations, bundles with LPS-1s, package for shipment and do export documents for the large number of overseas-bound parcels.

 

It is nuts, but all this still happens with just me and my one assistant!  (When I have a spare moment I'll start looking for another person--to train for QC, shipping, and some light inventory management.)

 

Staring at the calendar, I am going to estimate/commit to being fully caught up with ALL first batch order shipments by next Friday, June 16th.  

Then a significant number--if not all--second round orders (#5450 through #5578, originally promised for "early-June" shipment) to go out on June 21st.  It is going to be a brutal pace requiring the continuation of my day/night/weekend schedule, but at least that will narrow the promised-versus-actual gap to two weeks.

And then finally  we get into the third group--the "end-of-June" promised orders (#5579 through #5700).  Those could be on time!

 

The biggest favor anybody can do for me is to not e-mail me with product or order questions/changes. 

 

Thank you all for your patience.  Most of you know I do not take product delivery delays lightly.  Everyone paid good money up front (not a dime of which do I touch until the products ship--in fact PayPal telephoned me concerned about the enormous balance sitting untransfered in my account).  We want you to receive your UpTone toys soon!

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

P.S.  The dozen of you who got a bum unit and returned it will also receive shipping notices of the replacements either tomorrow or early next week.  

 

P.P.S.  We are now completely sold out for both ISO REGEN and UltraCap LPS-1 until middle-July!  Order #5700 was the last one promised for delivery by the end-of-June.

 

 

[Superdad]

31 minutes ago, tims said:

Don't know if this is asked before but are there any formal magazine/online reviews coming up for the iso regen that you are aware of?

 

Looking at my e-mail box, there are at least 7 magazine/web reviewer requests--most of which I have not even replied to.  I take the opposite approach from many (most?) manufacturers: The reviewers come AFTER all the customers!

 

Oh sure, if Chris or Michael Lavorgna or John Atkinson or some major UK reviewer really wanted one I'd put them on the slate.  But to be honest, the last thing we need right now is some review to create even more demand when we can't yet build fast enough.  

 

Plus, reviews elsewhere always create a flood of e-mail with questions of every type.  I love this business but hate spending 3-5 hours a day replying to e-mails.  I suppose some of that is my own doing: If we had fully stocked FAQ pages on our site covering all the permutations of basic questions people ask, that might reduce the load.  But likely not since many of the e-mails are long with multiple questions--often just for advice on usage of our products.

As much as I would love to offload that part of my job to someone else, that is highly unlikely, since product usage knowledge and communication skill is not something I envision training someone on.  More likely is that I'll train someone(s) for some of the other important things like QC, inventory management, parts ordering, shipping logistics, and accounting.  

Of course I can't stop this speeding train to bring on and train staff right this moment.  Best I might do in the next few weeks is to show my computer-wiz 16-year old son--for whom school just got out for the summer today--how to mind the USB protocol analyzer to screen boards.  He wants to earn money for something, so this will be his chance.  (But getting him out of bed before noon-to-2:00 p.m. will be the trick.)  

[Superdad]

On 6/13/2017 at 6:16 AM, hltf said:

I got my new ISO Regen today. I'm using it with the LPS-1 for power and sending the signal into my Berkeley USB converter.  It worked fine and sounded really great for 3-4 tracks and then I just heard a cracking sound and the music stopped.  I rebooted the MacMini and started up again. Again I was able to listen to music for a track or less and then the same crack sound and I lost sound. The third time I just heard the crack sound and no music at all.

 

I have not yet been able to check out my old Regen to see if there is an issue outside the new ISO Regen although I expect not.  Does anyone know what I should try? Have there been issues with the Berkeley and the ISO Regen? 

 

 

Sorry to hear you are having trouble.  As an experiment, have you tried moving the red switch on the ISO REGEN to the up ("ON") position?  This defeats the galvanic isolation (but you still get 80%+ of the ISO REGENs goodness.

 

True galvanic isolation can be a tricky thing and the grounding and connections on both sides of it come into play in different ways.

 

If you still have troubles with the switch in the up position, then we can look at replacing your unit.  The batch yours came from--what we shipped on June 9th--was very heavily tested (I won't even tell you how many days and nights were spent screening those 100 units to be sure they were perfect)--but since the USB input of your Berkeley Alpha is 100% bus powered, there is chance that thermal sensitivity of the isolator in your particular unit, combined with an intolerance of error on the part of the Berkeley, are conspiring to give you trouble.

 

I'll reply to the e-mail you just sent and we can take it from there.

 

Thanks,

ALEX

[Superdad]

23 hours ago, Superdad said:

 As an experiment, have you tried moving the red switch on the ISO REGEN to the up ("ON") position?  This defeats the galvanic isolation (but you still get 80%+ of the ISO REGENs goodness.

 

True galvanic isolation can be a tricky thing and the grounding and connections on both sides of it come into play in different ways.

 

Just as a follow-up, defeating the isolation did indeed cure this gentleman's problem.  While others here with a Berkeley Alpha (as he has) have not had to that, his system is unusual in other respects with cascade balanced power transformers and other things.  We continue to work with him on researching his system grounding.  But of course the ISO REGEN sounds glorious even without the galvanic isolation enabled.

[Superdad]

8 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Aha, no crank intended.  I was responding to the sarcastic "its in the middle of the page" comment by Daudio.  Explaining that I didn't read the whole page, in part because I only half pay attention to marketing speak, and in part because I never thought the return policy would be found there - given its not the norm.

 

No worries.  While it is in bold near the top of the page, I agree that it is time for me to write a whole page of the typical terms and conditions regarding returns, shipping, warranty repair, privacy, copyright, use and misuse, disclaimers, and liability.  

That, along with new pages for our Oyaide/Belden DC cables, more tech stuff on the Swenson Explains page (I've been collecting his epic dissertation posts for years), more on the FAQ pages, updated reviews and user quotes, new photos and a revised bio page, and quite importantly, a list of the fine overseas dealers who love our products so much they stock them with just a paltry 15% discount from us.

 

Frankly the whole web site could stand an overhaul.  It is rather amateurish to say the least. It is not as if I am unaware of these things.  It is simply that demand for our products outstrips the current staff resources I have (myself at 60-80 hours/week; my assistant at about 35).

 

We also intend to finally take out our very first advertisement--for the ISO REGEN & UltraCap LPS-1--in the coming months.  But at the moment, in our heavily back-ordered situation, the last thing I want to do is end up with another $100K of orders on the books waiting to be filled.  I am looking to hire another person, but right now I just need to focus on getting parts in and products out.

 

So all the fancy stuff has to wait.  Heck, I still have not had tile put down in the bathroom of our production building so we can get the toilet in! 

 

"Marketing speak?" I hate that stuff!  I think you will find that most of the long prose on our site is rather straightforward description of the product design and function.  I have to force myself to weave in a little fluff about the sonic benefits of the products.  Contrast what is on our site to the confusing, can't figure-out-what-it-does-but here's-lots-of-graphics that appear on the sites of others and then we can talk about "marketing speak." 

 

Anyway, yes, not only do we offer a 30-day, money-back, satisfaction guarantee on our products, but unlike many other direct-sale audio firms we do not charge a 15% restock fee.  And instead of a 1-year warranty we provide a 3-year warranty.

 

Thanks for your interest,

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, darren700 said:

@Superdad

Hi Alex, I received my ISO Regen today (powered by LPS1). Sounds awesome so far, but I have a quick question. I have the 90deg version of uspcb and after plugging it into my Yulong DA8 II Dac, the ISO is not sitting 90deg (more like 80deg) due to stress from my cables I think. will this damage the uspcb over time? should I add some support underneath it to try and straighten it? see attached picture.

 

I'd be less worried about the USPCB--it's pretty strong and cheap to replace--and more concerned about the stress on the 'A' and 'B' jacks of the REGEN and your DAC.  While our board house has been specially instructed to heavily solder the shield-tabs of the jacks to the PCB on the ISO REGEN, I have seen people rip jacks off earlier USB REGENs (we use a different board house for that model) and from DAC boards.  So yes, some support is in order.  

[Superdad]

11 minutes ago, darren700 said:

 

Thank you Alex and everyone else for your advice. After investigating further I found the cause of the rotation to be a slight mis-alignment of the uspcb male connector. It is not perfectly 90deg to the female side of the uspcb.

 

Well that's weird!  Just looked at a whole pile of those and given the way they are constructed (using my inspired idea for creating the world's only PCB-mount full size 'B' male USB), it is hard to fathom how one would be mis-aligned like that.  While I'd like to see pics from another angle--or with the heat shrink torn off--how about you just let me send you a replacement?  'Cause that does not sit square with me either!

(Please shoot me a note via e-mail or our web site contact page so I know exactly who you are.

[Superdad]

Friday Update:

 

The last 40 of the original mid-May-promised orders shipped out today, along with about 50 of the "early-June" orders.  We are now working to finish up the other 60 "early-June" orders (up through #5578) for shipment this coming Wednesday, June 21.  So for those folks there will have been just a 2 week delay.

 

There are about another 100 orders (up through #5700) that were promised for shipment by "end-of-June."  The original production run of boards had a lot that did not pass QC.  That, combined with a shortage of chips to catch up with, caused a ripple over the past month, so it is becoming clear that only about one-third of those "end-of-June" orders will be shipped on time.   I will provide an update when I know more.

 

Thanks for your patience everyone.  From reading the user reviews it seems that it will be worth the wait.  

 

Happy Father's Day weekend to those who are one.  And to the rest of you, call your dad if you can!

 

P.S.  Here is pic from late Thursday night.  Sorting and making sure everyone gets the right combination of goodies--and the right export paperwork.  Order variations--what was I thinking?!

 

[Superdad]

47 minutes ago, Quadman said:

I got the IR about 10 days ago and have noted some behavior issues that I did not have with the amber regen.

 

Hi Quadman:

I am going to ask John Swenson to explain a bit about how the ISO REGEN differs from the USB REGEN when it coms to USB connectivity.  Because as it happens, the ISO REGEN hews to the USB standards much more closely than the USB REGEN did.  I am speaking mostly about VBUS states, but also we (well, he) worked very hard to improve hot-swappability and compatibility with Linux and some older Windows systems.

All USB hosts and devices (so computers, DACs, the hub in the REGENs, etc.) have different wake/suspend states, partially based on VBUS status, but also based--I think--on if data is moving.

 

Anyway, while it is remotely possible you have a fussy ISO REGEN unit sample (which we could of course exchange), it is likely that your set up--possibly even your DIY USB is exacerbating the situation.  Also, please try taking the Jitterbug out of the chain.  Had someone last month tell me they had connection problems with the ISO REGEN that went away when they removed the Jitterbug (and he said it sounded better too).

 

Thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

 

P.S. Other than your standby disconnects, how are you liking the SQ with the ISO REGEN into your T+A DAC? 

[Superdad]

46 minutes ago, Quadman said:

I believe the IR is the top "Generic USB hub"

 

Yes, that is correct on Windows 10.  I just checked on my new Windows 10 laptop, and the "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" box was checked by default.  Guess it was not for your system.