Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[Blake]

I would absolutely take a partial refund for my Vi DAC Tube, as per Jud's post.  I would also return my Pulse Xfi and LPS as part of the deal.

 

Jarek, please follow up with Larry on this possibility.  

 

 

[Blake]

On 1/8/2019 at 6:53 PM, LHCommSquad said:

 

Again, this has nothing to do with me; everything to do with management. You're asking the wrong person the wrong questions. 

 

We have discussed that type of program in-depth. At this point it's not an option due to funding and/or other issues. If that program ever happens, we'll let those individuals know that option exists to them. 

 

Jarek:

 

So you asked Larry about partial refunds and he said "no"?  Even if the backer in question returns a Pulse and/or LPS to LH?

 

 

 

[Blake]

LHL: We didn't commingle funds among our various campaigns and the accounts are all segregated.  Don't worry, your money was not used to fund other campaigns or other things.  

 

LHL:  The problem is, we didn't price the units with a sufficient margin to produce a profit and therefore we actually lose money on each unit sold.

 

Solution: Provide refunds.

 

LHL: We can't.

 

Solution: Ok, provide partial refunds, we will take anything at this point.

 

LHL:  We can't.  We have talked about refunds internally and it won't work, but Larry is going to see this through, be patient.

 

Query:  And the logical and obvious conclusion from the above is???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blake]

7 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Of course that says something about the rate at which all the backers' money went for purposes other than building what was ordered.

 

And we have a winner!  

 

Congrats Jud.  Your prize?  I will send you my Pulse and LPS.  The volume isn't working at the moment...... sorry about that.

[Blake]

This is my Geek Pulse.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.  It is my life.  I must master it as I must master my life.  Without me, my Geek Pulse is useless.  Without my Geek Pulse, I am useless.  I must play my Geek Pulse true.  It must play more accurately than the competing DAC's that are trying to kill it.  It must outplay them before they kill it.  It will. 

 

My Geek Pulse is human, even as I am human, because it is my life.  Thus, I will learn it as a brother.  I will learn the Geek Pulse weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its volume knob and display window.  I will keep my Geek Pulse clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready.  We will become part of each other.  

 

Before LHL I swear this creed.

[Blake]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Yes, though as I noted, this thread is mostly made up of people who also got LHL completely wrong to the extent of sending them money.

 

Yes, guilty as charged.  A number of us in this thread are former members of the "Geek Force".  

[Blake]

Bernard, I've already researched this some time ago.  "LH Labs Corporation" is a Delaware corporation.  It was at one time registered to do business in California (where LH Labs is actually based).  However, this company is no longer authorized to do business in California, as of 2014 (taking a guess here, but there is a good chance they failed to file an annual report with the California Secretary of State and or other items/fees).   You would have to pay a small fee to find out if LH Labs Corporation remains in good standing in Delaware (I'd bet the answer is "no").   Larry also formed a separate company "LH Labs, Inc." which is a California corporation, but that entity is also administratively dissolved.  Technically, this status exposes Larry to personal liability as his corporate shield no longer exists.   There is zero chance any governmental agency will file criminal charges against Larry or his companies.  However, one could pursue him in civil court.  There are challenges to pursuing him in civil court, but it is a possibility.   DELAWARE SECRETARY OF STATE:   THIS IS NOT A STATEMENT OF GOOD STANDING
File Number:	5492983	Incorporation Date / Formation Date:	3/5/2014 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Entity Name:	LH LABS CORPORATION
Entity Kind:	Corporation	Entity Type:	General
Residency:	Domestic	State:	DELAWARE
REGISTERED AGENT INFORMATION
Name:	UNITED STATES CORPORATION AGENTS, INC.
Address:	300 DELAWARE AVE STE 210-A
City:	WILMINGTON	County:	New Castle
State:	DE	Postal Code:	19801
Phone:	302-777-0538

 

 

 

CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE:

 

Narrow search results: 

Entity Number	Registration Date	Status	Entity Name	Jurisdiction	Agent for Service of Process
C3687470	06/20/2014	SOS FORFEITED	LH LABS CORPORATION	DELAWARE	LEGALZOOM.COM, INC. (C2967349)
C2055672	09/16/1997	SOS/FTB SUSPENDED	LH LABS, INC.	CALIFORNIA	ALTON G. BURKHALTER

 

 

[Blake]

Ok, "let's go with

14 minutes ago, bernardperu said:

 

Why ZERO chances of criminal charges?

 

This article seems to suggest that the US. government can do the job on our behalf: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/8/29/17793720/ftc-ibackpack-investigation-indiegogo-kickstarter

 

 

 

 

Among the reasons is an overburdened system/lack of sufficient prosecution resources and burden of proof.  Perhaps "zero" was too strong, but the odds are slim IMHO.  

 

Your article notes an FTC investigation, but that is far from being prosecuted and convicted.  It never hurts to try though.  We can all file complaints and see what happens.

[Blake]

16 hours ago, marflao said:

So it seems that Larry doesn't have to be concerned at all. 

Unbelievable.. 

 

I don't think this is necessarily a lost cause. 

 

I think we can all safely assume Larry will not fulfill his obligations for the undelivered products.  We can also safely assume that without pressure, Larry will never provide refunds. 

 

What to do?  One idea is to start a thread here on AS, the purpose of which is to provide US resident victims with a step by step guide for suing Larry Ho individually, LH Labs Corporation, LH Labs Inc. and Light Harmonic in small claims court in your respective state.   I have links to guides for a few states already that I will be posting.  Frankly, it is easy to look up the process.  We can also use the thread for people to provide updates on what they have done and the status of their case.

 

In small claims court, you don't need an attorney (in fact, attorneys are not generally allowed in small claims courts).   If enough people sue, it could provide sufficient incentive to cause Larry to provide refunds (or at least partial refunds).  Larry et. al. will have default judgments against them all over the place as there is little chance they will be able to fly all over to defend themselves, plus, Larry doesn't have any defense.  Jarek has unwittingly provided quite a bit of ammunition in the various web fora.  You would also need to pay a process server to serve Larry in California.  We might be able to find a process server willing to do a reduced rate if we all use the particular process server.

 

We can put the word out on all the audio web fora, direct them to the thread here on AS, and people can follow the guides and sue.  I will start the thread in the next week.  Bottom line is, we all need to start suing him soon to avoid Statute of Limitations issues for breach of contract. 

 

Jarek, please inform Larry to reconsider his refusal to provide refunds.  

 

To get the ball rolling, here is the guide for those of you in Larry's home State, California:

 

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/suing-in-california-small-claims-court-step-by-step

 

Larry's offices are located at:

 

5701 Lonetree Blvd., Suite 114
Rocklin, CA 95765

 

 

 

 

 

[Blake]

25 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Best of luck and I might even try it too, but:

 

- Wonder how small claims court would be able to deal with issues such as whether LH has assumed the LHL liabilities and thus is proper party to sue;

 

- Because of the China/Taiwan connection, I wonder to what extent any money, or Mr. Ho himself, might easily be offshored.

 

If by "LH" you mean Larry in his individual capacity- I intend to pierce the corporate veil and go after his personal assets.  If you are referring to Light Harmonic, your point is a good one but I will still add them.  Jarek has posted coments in the fora that provides me with good arguments that Light Harmonic has assumed LH Labs liabilities.  I will provide links to the pertinent comments by Jarek to aid in that argument.

 

P.S. To all:  Nothing I post is to be construed as legal advice or any offer to represent you.  I am not your lawyer.  I am not representing anyone, nor will I be representing anyone in the future.  You are advised to seek out your own counsel.

 

[Blake]

@Jud:

 

Yes, you make good points.  Nobody should expect to to be fairly compensated and frankly, you should not expect to be compensated at all.  

 

Whether a moral victory is sufficient compensation for taking these actions is a decision everyone must make.  The costs should also be taken into consideration.   However, obtaining a judgment in small claims court will be relatively cheap.  Enforcing the judgment, not so easy.  But you can make Larry's life very, very difficult.

 

The idea is to provide incentive (particularly if lots of people file claims in small claims courts around the country) for him to refund on a prorata basis whatever money that remains, in order to avoid these hassles.  That is the ultimate goal for me.

 

[Blake]

26 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

 

piercing the corporate veil is often used (or attempted) against corporate polluters, and some hazardous waste statutes do so explicitly - that case law, and books on it, may provide some useful information

 

Larry no longer has a corporate veil to protect him.  His business entities are dissolved by law.  As such it is as if he never formed a business entity and he is operating his businesses in his individual capacity.  All of his personal assets are at risk and have been for a number of years.

[Blake]

Larry is in breach of contract. There is a binding contract between the Campaign Owner and each Contributor, as per Indiegogo terms of service: 

 

When you, as a Campaign Owner creates a Campaign on the Site and asks for Contributions, you understand that you are entering into separate legal agreements with both Indiegogo and with Contributors, and the following rules apply (in addition to the all other Terms and Additional Policies)

Creating and Running a Campaign

 

As a Campaign Owner, you are entering into a legal agreement with a Contributor when they make a Contribution to your Campaign, which includes the following obligations (in addition to the all other Terms and Additional Policies):

1. 1. Make good faith efforts to fulfill the Perks associated with a Campaign in the timeframe that is communicated to Contributors.
   2. Immediately notify Contributors if there are obstacles or delays.
   3. Respond promptly and truthfully to all questions posed to them by Contributors.
   4. Provide substantive and quality updates at least once a month to Contributors.
   5. If you have received the Contributions from your Campaign, issue refunds to Contributors if you cannot deliver Perks.
   6. Comply with all applicable laws and regulations in the use of Contributions and delivery of Perks.
   7. Comply with EEA Data Controller Obligations. As a Campaign Owner, you (and Indiegogo) will independently fulfill all duties required of data controllers under applicable EEA data protection law (such law shall include, but not be limited to, the EU General Data Protection Regulation (Regulation (EU) 2016/679) (“GDPR”); (iii) the EU e-Privacy Directive (Directive 2002/58/EC), including subsequent variations, such as the Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council concerning the respect for private life and the protection of personal data in electronic communications and repealing Directive 2002/58/EC (“ePrivacy Regulation”), if enacted).

 

Looking at the Indigogo Terms of Service posted above:

 

1. No court will interpret Section 1.e. to mean that Larry has an unlimited time to deliver.  Pursuant to Section 1.e., Larry is legally obligated to issue refunds.

2. Under Section 1.a. Larry has to make good faith efforts to deliver within the time frame promised.  See the last progress chart pasted above. Note the straight out lie with respect to the claimed number of Vi Dac Infinity units shipped!

3. LHL collected shipping charges for the Vi DAC years ago.

4. Larry also breached Sections 1.b, c and d.  All consistent communications ended long ago.  

 

Larry used to be a nice guy, focused on quality products and customer service.  Those days are long over.  He stole our money and has no intention of giving it back.  He wakes up each day and lies to himself, thinking he can miraculously turn things around.  That is not going to happen.  Just look at the Light Harmonic website, check out the list of vendors.  Go to each vendor site and you will see none of them are selling Light Harmonic.  The gig is up.   If he issued refunds years ago, he would still have a viable audio business.  

 

Larry almost certainly used, or is using the funds he received for undelivered products to keep his doors open and pay his rent and mortgage.  Now it is time to make Larry's life absolutely miserable.  

 

[Blake]

In addition to breach of contract.....

 

Here is a primer on the crime of embezzlement under California law:

 

https://aizmanlaw.com/white-collar-crime/embezzlement/

 

Larry, you might want to contact the Aizman Law firm, or perhaps another criminal defense attorney closer to your home.  Just make sure you don't use funds from undelivered products to pay your legal bills.

 

 

 

 

[Blake]

16 hours ago, Jud said:

 

- I assume your Vi DAC Infinity (solid state) was never shipped.  Are you aware of others?

 

- Suggestion: Contract suits cost money.  The AG's office doesn't.

 

I ordered a Vi DAC Tube, and it was never shipped.  I don't believe more than 3-5 Vi DAC Tubes were ever produced.  One active member on the now defunct Geek Force Forums was given one of the Tube Vi DACs.   They had some issues with the case for both Vi DAC types.

 

As for the solid state version, I have seen 3 units pop up for sale in the used market since 2015.  I doubt more than 20-30 solid state versions were ever produced and that is being generous and giving Larry the benefit of doubt.  There is no way Larry ever shipped out 129 units to backers and that is based on comments from the various audio fora, including the Geek Force forums, with pretty much everyone stating they never received units.  I only recall 2 or 3 people saying they received a unit, everyone else was desperately waiting for their unit to ship.  Larry, please feel free to provide any form of proof to the contrary, but you know you won't.  Your customers have been asking for this data since 2015 and you never have provided any substantiated info.

 

I agree that AG office complaints are a terrific and free idea.  This is our best option and that should be the singular focus of this thread. 

 

I don't know how much of our money is left.  It is becoming quite clear that Larry likely spent IGG contributions not only on the products he is obligated to deliver but also on other things (Larry- please go see a criminal defense lawyer if you don't believe me, or check out the link I posted earlier- if you spent ANY of our money on other products, your company or your personal expenses, you committed a crime and given the amount involved, the penalty is several years in jail under California law).  For example, Larry claims he will lose money on each Vi DAC shipped. So we ask for refunds and he says that is not possible.  What other conclusion is there, other than he spent our money on other things.

 

My hope was that Larry would provide refunds.  It is apparent that will not happen.  Personally, he has (or had) $3,500 from me and if I can't get that back, I will do everything in my power to see he ends up in jail and he is ordered to return our campaign donations.  I have contacts in California.  I am sure others do as well.  If we all band together, we have a chance of pulling this off.  

 

Please help us get the word out online and ask everyone to add to marflao's (Markus) list.  I understand from Markus we are now making some good progress on this list!  That is great news.

 

Finally, I want to note that I have nothing against Jarek, this is not his fault, he is merely the messenger.  Larry is to blame (as well as Gavin).  We will submit Gavin's name to the AG's office as well. 

 

  

[Blake]

The campaign contribution goal for each product would have been calculated by LH to cover research and design, and then production, while allowing LH to at least break even or make a profit.   LH Labs far exceeded their IGG campaign goals. This is a very important fact for our case IMO. 

 

This fact will be used to rebut any argument by Larry that the funds he received in excess of each campaign goal were solely used for R&D or production.  Even allowing for unanticipated R&D and production costs, the excess money received beyond the campaign goals would have covered these unanticipated costs and allowed for big profits.  That money must be refunded or Larry is committing a crime (in addition to breaching his contractual obligations).

 

 

[Blake]

27 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Does anyone know which physical office locations Light Harmonic/LH Labs still occupies in California?  At their peak I recall they had offices in Roseville, Sacramento, and Rocklin.  I am curious about what is left here in the states.

 

Larry posted a video on YouTube in November of 2018, discussing the Stella IEM's.  It looks like a commercial office space.  

 

 

The Light Harmonic Website lists the USA address as:

 

5701 Lonetree Blvd., Suite 114
Rocklin, CA 95765

Voicemail: (888) 842-5988
Email: [email protected]

 

Perhaps someone living in the greater Sacramento area could drive by the office building and check the directory for the office building.  Using Google Maps street view you will see there is a decent sized office building at this address, and includes some sort of mini golf course in the common area.

 

[Blake]

@LHCommSquad,

 

Since you are touting LH's transparency, how about we focus on the more important issue.

 

What is the precise reason for Larry's refusal to issue refunds?

 

 

[Blake]

31 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

If you're there to cause problems or harass us on the forums, probably not. If you're there to genuinely meet the team and see what is going on in a non-hostile manner, then probably.

 

The last official IGG update for the Vi DAC was SEPTEMBER 5, 2018.   Poor Larry, getting harassed on the forums by people who gave him money for nothing.

 

 

[Blake]

2 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

I was personally harassed via PM the other day. You know who and what I'm referring to. I've also been personally harassed in public on the forums. It gets real tiresome, real quick. There's a respectful way to conduct questions; this being the internet though, most people just keyboard warrior up and create an atmosphere of hostility.

 

Fortunately, I have run into people on the forums who a) intensely dislike LH Labs and Larry but are very respectful in their approach.

LHCommSquad

Replied: January 31

At this point there was no counter-offer and refunds are not an option at this point. That doesn't mean they're not being considered, just not offered yet. I'm sorry about that. I understand the frustration.

•  
• Quote
•  Bookmark

• Report reply

Blake

Replied: 21 hours ago

How does Larry feel about serving a few years in jail?

•  
• Quote
•  Bookmark

 

• Report reply

LHCommSquad

Replied: 21 hours ago

Hi Blake,

 

I don't know his thoughts on that, and I personally find your question (to me) offensive and harassment. I am open to discussing your orders, campaign plans, etc. However, I will not be discussing "Larry's personal thoughts on spending a few years in jail" or "being sued" or anything of that nature. Please refrain from contacting me again over these matters.

 

Jarek

•  
• Quote
•  Bookmark

• Report reply

Blake

Replied: 4 hours ago

Jarek, my comment was not directed at you, but I apologize that it offended you.  As I mentioned earlier, you are not to blame for Larry's unethical behavior.

[Blake]

18 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

Also, from what I understand, that's why Larry submerged and left the forums. He would get attacked no matter what he said or did. So he just went back to work behind the scenes.

 

What a great business leader.  Take money, stick head in the sand, hope it all goes away.

 

[Blake]

Just now, LHCommSquad said:

 

That completely ignores what I just said. You can't argue or reason or discuss things with people who are intent to destroy you at all costs.

 

Sure.  How about you ignoring the hard questions and simply deflecting whenever it suits you?

 

What is the specific reason Larry won't provide refunds?    Come on.  This is where you resort to your tried and true "I only know what Larry tells me".  

[Blake]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

But really, taking millions of dollars in return for nothing, then feeling put-upon when people mind?

 

 

Exactly, then also having an attitude about it? 

 

He represents the guy who stole our money.  How does he think a normal, reasonable person would react to this mess?  

 

"Oh, you took my $3,500 back in MARCH OF 2015.  The last nonsense update was in SEPTEMBER OF 2018.  Oh well, enjoy my money Larry, you deserve it!"

 

 

[Blake]

Shocking!!!  No further response by Larry or Jarek.  They are hoping we all just go away.  

 

I just posted a thread over on SBAF, directing people to this thread.

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/lh-labs-never-received-your-crowd-funded-product.7452/#post-245139

 

 

 

[Blake]

@LHCommSquad,

 

I am sure many people appreciate your efforts over the last few years, keeping a "dialogue" going between Larry Ho and his victims. 

 

You have written quite a lot in the various fora over the last few years but the fact remains, we still don't have the promised products and we still don't have our money.  So at the end of the day, none of what you write means anything and is simply window dressing unless you can produce results.  

 

Can you produce results, or will it continue to be the status quo of continued delay, meaningless "updates" and deflections, with occasional apologies sprinkled in?  

 

Apparently you have Larry's ear.  Why not use your powers of persuasion to convince him to provide refunds?