The true experimental tweak thread

[chauphuong]

Is it possible and advisable to do JSSG on power cables for amplifiers, DACs, CDPs?

 

By the way, i did JSSG on a Cat 7 Buffalo Lan cable with very positive results.

[drjimwillie]

 I have two questions, please.

1.   I built an AC power cable using Canare 4S11,  which has two sets of (2) 14 gauge conductors.  Do you think it matters what I use as a ground?   I don't think that the ground needs to be a twisted pair.  I used the largest stranded ground conductor I have, which I think was either 12 gauge or 14 gauge.   Inside the power strip I made, I ran individual, solid, 10 gauge to each receptacle.   I could take the cable apart and replace the stranded with a solid 10 gauge  or go out and buy some stranded 10 gauge.  What do you think?  I am not talking about using silver wire for the ground. 

2.  I was just about to confirm the purchase of an Alt hi-fi DC blocker, when I thought about what @Abtr had said about adding capacitors to his ground  to block DC current.  Does anyone have an idea why this is not part of the typical design? Is D.C. on the ground not typically an issue?  I think it is beyond my  ability to test after the fact.  Would it be better just to see if Alex at Alt hi-fi would just build ground capacitors into his product?  I have asked him and I will tell you what he says. 

Thank you. Please enjoy your day and I hope you have time to listen to some music. 

 This salutation made me remember that I will not be able to listen to music today.

 If I can sneak the time; plan is to open my Conrad Johnson solid-state amp and restore the ground lift I did by cutting the ground wire.   I am going to crimp in a snap connector.  I have been feeling like my amp is running hotter than I remember.  I don't know if it could have anything to do with me removing the ground?   What do you think?  

 Also if I am going to use a balanced transformer to power the amp, I thought that I should probably restore the ground.  (Is it an issue to run it balanced with no ground) 

And if I'm going to test the power strip I made,  as recommended by JS,  I need the ground restored to verify that there is no ground loop. 

 I guess I should restore the ground that I lifted in my Holo Spring DAC, also. 

 No music for me till sometime this weekend, maybe. 

[Cornan]

47 minutes ago, chauphuong said:

Is it possible and advisable to do JSSG on power cables for amplifiers, DACs, CDPs?

 

By the way, i did JSSG on a Cat 7 Buffalo Lan cable with very positive results.

 

I have JSSG on DC cables, ethernet cables and USB cables to all of my devices, but not on AC mains cables though. However, I know that @lmitche have dressed his AC mains cables with JSSG. I think that went quite well, but he might chim in to let you know exactly how good they where. 

All of my cables are also starquad wired, but you should keep an eye open here since there is coming in new reports that Supra Cat 8 with its differential pair twist (plus JSSG) is a better cable than Carare 4S6 (with JSSG). I have order 5m of the Supra Cat8 to give it a try. I will report back here how they improve upon Carare 4S6 with JSSG. I hope to get time to do it on saturday atleast.  

[Cornan]

20 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

 I have two questions, please.

1.   I built an AC power cable using Canare 4S11,  which has two sets of (2) 14 gauge conductors.  Do you think it matters what I use as a ground?   I don't think that the ground needs to be a twisted pair.  I used the largest stranded ground conductor I have, which I think was either 12 gauge or 14 gauge.   Inside the power strip I made, I ran individual, solid, 10 gauge to each receptacle.   I could take the cable apart and replace the stranded with a solid 10 gauge  or go out and buy some stranded 10 gauge.  What do you think?  I am not talking about using silver wire for the ground. 

2.  I was just about to confirm the purchase of an Alt hi-fi DC blocker, when I thought about what @Abtr had said about adding capacitors to his ground  to block DC current.  Does anyone have an idea why this is not part of the typical design? Is D.C. on the ground not typically an issue?  I think it is beyond my  ability to test after the fact.  Would it be better just to see if Alex at Alt hi-fi would just build ground capacitors into his product?  I have asked him and I will tell you what he says. 

Thank you. Please enjoy your day and I hope you have time to listen to some music. 

 This salutation made me remember that I will not be able to listen to music today.

 If I can sneak the time; plan is to open my Conrad Johnson solid-state amp and restore the ground lift I did by cutting the ground wire.   I am going to crimp in a snap connector.  I have been feeling like my amp is running hotter than I remember.  I don't know if it could have anything to do with me removing the ground?   What do you think?  

 Also if I am going to use a balanced transformer to power the amp, I thought that I should probably restore the ground.  (Is it an issue to run it balanced with no ground) 

And if I'm going to test the power strip I made,  as recommended by JS,  I need the ground restored to verify that there is no ground loop. 

 I guess I should restore the ground that I lifted in my Holo Spring DAC, also. 

 No music for me till sometime this weekend, maybe. 

 

With Canare 4S11 it is not important which one to use as ground but it is important that you put red & pink together and white & creme together. Otherwise you will not get the advantages of the starquad construction.

 

I have read that report from Abtr but are not sure if it was a missing link in his own DC blocker design or if was any other reason? You´ll have to ask him. Alexandr will surely giude you to a wise decision as well. I know that @maty have changed the ATL DC blocker capacitors to Mundorf. He posted about it on diyaudio. He is welcome to chim in here!  

 

Lifting the safety ground with a cheater plug is not really recommended. As soon as you´ll get your IT wired balanced *floating* (plus additional 2-pole RCD/GFCI) your humming problems will hopefully be gone. Fingers crossed!   

That´s the life of a tweaker. Ones in a while you realize that you spend more time tweaking than actually listening to music!  

 

 

 

 

[steklo]

11 minutes ago, Cornan said:

That´s the life of a tweaker. Ones in a while you realize that you spend more time tweaking than actually listening to music!

 

Just watch out that this music thing doesn't start to become bothering and takes away too much time from tweaking... ;-))

[maty]

Yes, I changed in the DC blocker prototype the cheap 15,000uF 85º EPCOS with Mundorf MLGO 47,000uF 25V 125ºC and the sound is much better now. The news had  a more expensive and better ripple 18,000uF 105ºC EPCOS.

 

 

The problem is the ATL case: caps up to 50mm tall. In a bank capacitors (preamp, poweramp), 22,000uF 63V and 33,000uF 40V are better choice.

 

They are very expensive but very good.

 

[maty]

I have a thread in AC forums about my gadgets to clean my very noisy mains. Incredible noisy.

How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153802.0

[maty]

By the way, to clean the earth, I wrote some interesting posts in Diyaudio forums.

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/318102-aksa-lender-mos-hybrid-aleph-alpha-amplifier-post5417964.html

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/318102-aksa-lender-mos-hybrid-aleph-alpha-amplifier-post5417979.html

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/318102-aksa-lender-mos-hybrid-aleph-alpha-amplifier-post5417984.html

 

 

 

[maty]

To finish, other interesting thread:

 

Star quad, the best geometry to build audio and power cables

 

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156793.0

[drjimwillie]

@maty  thank you for the posts.  

 Regarding the ground for the star-quad AC cable, if I am to spiral the ground in opposite direction of the interior conductors, how do I know which direction that is?  Currently I have my ground running straight down the side of the star quad cable.   In these posts, did not see anything about what gauge ground wire to use.  Does the size matter?   I currently have a 14 or 12 gauge ground wire. Would a 10 gauge be better?

 

You think the Mundorf caps sound better?  What kind of better?  I wonder if Alt hi-if would put them in for me and if it would be would  be worth it? 

 

 

[maty]

You need to make a small cut to see the cable inside. I suppose you see the sense/direction when you make the tall to separate the wires to connect to plugs, RCA, XLR...

 

Much better, without discussion.

 

I had DCB + DCBx4 with Big EPCOS.

 

Now, DCB (Mundorf) + DCBx4 Big EPCOS.

 

Difference: now I get excited much more easily and more often when listening to excellent vinyl recordings from analog masters (before '80).

 

My hypothesis was / is that these caps clean the noise in the audio band and not only the DC at mains.

 

I was a click to buy a kit with the new Icepower 1200AS2 class D module ($ 750, a bargain -> about € 920 at home, Spain). The improvement was so substantial that I gave up. Maybe that fast technology had problems with my gadgets. Why take a risk?

 

After I made other cheap tweak in my KEF Q100 coaxial speakers and now the sound is better! They sound much better than the originals!!!

 

KEF Q100 for $300

 

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150792.0

[maty]

Aleksandar should not have any problem. I suppose he will only be charged for the extra cost of the material (price+shipping+VAT).

 

By the way, my two amps have EI transformer.  They are better than toroidals in front DC. Imagine how much DC on mains I have!

[maty]

You can read what Pinnoccio think about the Mundorf 33,000uF 40V 125º in the bank capacitors of the DIY class A USSA 5 poweramp.

 

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153802.msg1644299#msg1644299

[drjimwillie]

@maty  you are saying that the:

DCB (Mundorf) + DCBx4 Big EPCOS. sound better than the:

Mundorf MLGO 47,000uF 25V 125ºC

in the DC Blocker?

 

Do you have a cut sheet or a picture of how you used the DCB (Mundorf) + DCBx4 Big EPCOS?

is this one product or two?  I did a search for it but could not find it.

 

I sent one to Alex than I sent him the other. 

[maty]

I made the test with the DCBx5 chain.

 

The DCBx4 always with Big EPCOS.

 

I had the DCB prototype with cheap EPCOS. I changed it with DCB Big EPCOS from my Yamaha system -> better sound.

 

Then I wanted to change the cheap EPCOS of the prototype but it will take months to be available again. I looked for alternatives and the best ones are the Mundorf, only by specs.

 

After the change, more than 200 hours of burning in the Yamaha system. 47,000uF is too much micro faradays -> very long burning. The sound in the Yamaha system (TV, films and family: bad commercial recordings )  got better.

 

One day, with my Marantz system working for hours and sounding very good, I made the DCB change. Much better sound, with very good recordings with high DR (wich I usually listen to in my second system; classical, baroque, jazz, acoustic... about 80% or more of time).

 

[

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I have JSSG on DC cables, ethernet cables and USB cables to all of my devices, but not on AC mains cables though. However, I know that @lmitche have dressed his AC mains cables with JSSG. I think that went quite well, but he might chim in to let you know exactly how good they where. 

All of my cables are also starquad wired, but you should keep an eye open here since there is coming in new reports that Supra Cat 8 with its differential pair twist (plus JSSG) is a better cable than Carare 4S6 (with JSSG). I have order 5m of the Supra Cat8 to give it a try. I will report back here how they improve upon Carare 4S6 with JSSG. I hope to get time to do it on saturday atleast.  

Hi Micael,

 

Well I only did the JSSG thing on the ac cable going to my music servers ATX power supply.  I can't say it made a difference in SQ, unlike DC, network and USB cables where it really matters.

 

All for now, Larry

[maty]

Go to images:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=dcb+dc+blocker+maty

[Cornan]

21 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Hi Micael,

 

Well I only did the JSSG thing on the ac cable going to my music servers ATX power supply.  I can't say it made a difference in SQ, unlike DC, network and USB cables where it really matters.

 

All for now, Larry

 

Thanks Larry! ???

[drjimwillie]

@maty I am sorry, and I am almost embarrassed to say, but I am having a hard time following you. ?

What is a DCB?

EPCOS is a  manufacturer of capacitors like Mundorf, correct?

Is Big EPCOS, a product line, or the  physical size ?

 I can understand the specification for the Mundorf MLGO 47,000uF. 

 I am grateful for your extensive help. 

 Are you saying that the Mundorff take a very long time to burn in?   But after they did they sounded great? 

and that EPCOS  Will not be available for months? 

 

 

 

 

[maty]

DCB = DC Blocker

 

Yes. EPCOS is a Siemens company.

 

My Yamaha system:

 

Before: DCB Big EPCOS + DCBx2 Big EPCOS

 

After: DCB prototype cheap EPCOS + DCBx2 Big EPCOS  (the DCB -> Marantz). Yamaha worse sound than before.

 

More after: DCB prototype Mundorf + DCBx2 Big EPCOS. Burning more than 200 hours. Yamaha better sound than never!

 

Now, again: DCB Big EPCOS + DCBx2 Big EPCOS. Yamaha worse sound than with Mundorf. But like the BIG system (and big room) is kidnapped by TV, family and bad recordings... it is not my priority to improve it again. It is a pity, 3-ways with 10.8" woofers

[drjimwillie]

@maty so you like the Mundorf the best. 

Did ATL hi-fi put them on for you, so Alex will know what to price. Sorry to be dense. 

 

My B system with the TV has  Altec Lansing Voice of the theater speakers,  there is nothing like big woofers and a big horn.  I am driving it with an Arcam AVR. Although it has 5 or 7 internal amps, I am only driving one set of speakers with it. 

[maty]

I, off course. It is the FIRST, the prototype of all DC Blockers in case. With varistor, Schurter IEC, Schnneider schuko,... the prototype.

 

You are wrong: there is nothing like a big room where you can enjoy your musics. Lucky you!

 

AVR Arcam have toroidal inside. If you have some of DC on mains (more than 10mV/115Vac in USA or 20mV/230Vac in Europe) and a toroidal > 400 or 500 VA you will have sound problems.  And more heat in the transformer side. It will work in saturation -> distorsion, worse sound.

 

In stereo, do you have too much heat upside the toroidal?

 

Altec Lansing Voice have high sensitivity, 97 dB -> you need very few watts -> very few heat or cold. If not, you have DC on mains.

 

https://www.cnet.com/products/altec-lansing-a7-the-voice-of-the-theatre-speaker/specs/

[maty]

97 dB -> about 1 or 2 watts. It is very important the SNR at 1 watt/8 Ohms.

 

Which AVR Arcam?

 

[Polish] https://audio.com.pl/testy/kino-domowe/amplitunery-av/f/979-arcam

[drjimwillie]

So I will ask Alex to make me a DC blocker with the Mundorff caps. He's going to think I'm crazy because that was the first thing I said  ask Alex to make me a DC blocker with the Mundorff caps. He's going to think I'm crazy because that  what I asked him for first 

 I have the Arcam AVR 600

[maty]

I know how Aleksandar thinks.

 

When the prototype, I had thought two DCB. One for the Marantz system and other to Yamaha system. At time, the boards used the cheap EPCOS. I decided to do a test. The first with the cheap ones. If the sound improved, the second with the expensive EPCOS.

 

With the expensive, Marantz system has better sound.

 

I decided to test how it would sound by connecting the two, and the sound improved again. New DCBx2 with expensive EPCOS. After a new test, with DCB proto + DCB+ DCBx2 -> better sound. New DCBx4.

 

The limit: DCBx2 + DCBx4 with Big EPCOS -> worse sound.

 

It was try and error.

 

Two systems with class AB amplifiers with EI transformers.

I searched and searched the internet but nothing appeared, so I elaborated my own hypothesis: good capacitors with high ripple capacity also clean the noise in the audio band -and not only the DC ripple after the rectifiers-, where RF / EMI filters and RF ferrites do not work.