MQA is Vaporware

[lucretius]

9 hours ago, mansr said:

IIUC, the Mytek offers other filter choices if MQA is disabled. If you're playing non-MQA content, you're probably better off disabling the MQA decoder and using one of the other filters that then become available. It's a bizarre design for sure.

 

Yes.  From the manual:

 

9.2.14 PCM Filt Shpe (PCM Filter Shape)

• MPH (Minimum Phase)
• SR (Slow Roll-Off)
• FR (Fast Roll-Off)

Note! When MQA is enabled the filter is fixed at "minimum phase” ...

 

 

Also, for completeness, here are the DSD filters:

 

9.2.15 DSD Filt BW (DSD Filter Bandwidth)

• AUTO – the filter is selected automatically depending on DSD rate: for DSDx64 - LO, DSDx128 - MED, DSDx256 – HI. It is highly recommended to leave this option enabled.
• LO - 47,44 kHZ IIR Filter
• MED - 60kHz IIR Filter
• HI - 70 kHz IIR Filter

 

When you send the DAC a dsd file, in terms of filter selection, I don't think it matters whether the MQA function is enabled or disabled.

[mcgillroy]

On 7/8/2017 at 3:15 AM, Rt66indierock said:

Finally, opponents of MQA have formed a group to collate, organize and disseminate information about MQA. The group includes people from high end audio manufacturers, major labels, studios and me.

 

Very interesting! Glad to hear that finally something is happening and a better, more informed discussion can commence.

 

Could you give any more specific info on timeframes and planned steps? IFA Berlin?

 

I am wondering about the major labels though - thought all majors are backing MQA?!

[Rt66indierock]

5 hours ago, mcgillroy said:

 

Very interesting! Glad to hear that finally something is happening and a better, more informed discussion can commence.

 

Could you give any more specific info on timeframes and planned steps? IFA Berlin?

 

I am wondering about the major labels though - thought all majors are backing MQA?!

 

Things have been happening since mid-2016. I’ve certainly been pretty open about it. There is a lot of great information out there.  It just needs to be organized.

 

I can give you no timeframes. I am still watching the effect of Meridian Audio and MQA Ltd financial statements becoming public information. And I just started analyzing the Sprint/TIDAL/4:44 giveaways.

 

IFA Berlin not me I’ll be in the Pacific Northwest playing in a golf tournament.

 

The majors have licensed MQA but as of the Los Angeles Audio Show Warner has converted about 3,000 albums just as they announced at CES 2017, Universal none, Sony none. You license a format to protect your company. But if the majors had converted all their hi-res files to MQA where would they sell them? Based on who isn’t getting paid by TIDAL more analysis has to be going on at the majors as to how stream hi-res files since there is no indication that MQA has helped TIDAL gain subscribers.

 

Finally you need to reread what you quoted. Not everyone at the majors is supporting MQA. In fact many oppose it.

[soxr]

4 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

Finally you need to reread what you quoted. Not everyone at the majors is supporting MQA. In fact many oppose it.

This story is very similar to 4G in my country. One foreign provider jumped on the license and paid insane amounts to get it. This provider has done nothing with his assigned 4G frequencies, except hold the license so that no other party can occupy the spectrum, just to be ready when they want to be ready.

Well it never happened ... so signing a deal does not mean that the license will be used.



 

[Rt66indierock]

2 hours ago, soxr said:

This story is very similar to 4G in my country. One foreign provider jumped on the license and paid insane amounts to get it. This provider has done nothing with his assigned 4G frequencies, except hold the license so that no other party can occupy the spectrum, just to be ready when they want to be ready.

Well it never happened ... so signing a deal does not mean that the license will be used.



 

 

Except nobody has paid MQA Ltd much money at all. Total turnover from inception to December 31, 2016 is less than 31,000 Pounds.

[rickca]

4 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Except nobody has paid MQA Ltd much money at all. Total turnover from inception to December 31, 2016 is less than 31,000 Pounds.

It's pretty clear that MQA has been investing heavily in business development to recruit partners and attract press coverage and spinning it as business success.

[Rt66indierock]

3 minutes ago, rickca said:

It's pretty clear that MQA has been investing heavily in business development to recruit partners and attract press coverage and spinning it as business success.

 

Look how long Meridian fooled people. I have difficulty understanding why someone would choose to lose one million Pounds a year for 24 years but Meridian did.

[mcgillroy]

16 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

Finally you need to reread what you quoted. Not everyone at the majors is supporting MQA. In fact many oppose it.

 

Thx - could you be more specific which ones and/or point me to statements confirming this?

 

 

[mcgillroy]

Looks like Xivero, authors of the "Hypothesis Paper on MQA" took a page from MQAs playbook and now offer their own set of filters to remove pre-ringing throughout the recoding and playback-chain:

 

https://www.xivero.com/xipodizer/

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, mcgillroy said:

Looks like Xivero, authors of the "Hypothesis Paper on MQA" took a page from MQAs playbook and now offer their own set of filters to remove pre-ringing throughout the recoding and playback-chain:

 

https://www.xivero.com/xipodizer/

 

 

 

 

Oh how blasphemous, they are even charging real money for their product. 

 

Only joking. 

[Rt66indierock]

7 hours ago, mcgillroy said:

 

Thx - could you be more specific which ones and/or point me to statements confirming this?

 

 

 

If I could decide whose side you are on I might. But your post in KIH #47 has me wondering whether you are wrong or posting nonsense.  To quote Wolfgang Pauli “What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not.” I generally don’t respond until I believe you are wrong.

 

You are following the MQA debate close enough that you should know of one person. He uses his name and his company and location are in his profile.

[Rt66indierock]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Oh how blasphemous, they are even charging real money for their product. 

 

Only joking. 

 

Considering what can be done in software I see endless opportunities in the near future for you to review, compare and write how to articles. This is type of software is only beginning. I seem to remember writing about wanting control of the filters a while back.

[realhifi]

I haven't kept up.....is MQA still vaporware?

[mansr]

6 hours ago, mcgillroy said:

Looks like Xivero, authors of the "Hypothesis Paper on MQA" took a page from MQAs playbook and now offer their own set of filters to remove pre-ringing throughout the recoding and playback-chain:

 

https://www.xivero.com/xipodizer/

That software offers six different filter choices, all minimum phase. The frequency responses look like this:

If applied to Redbook content, some of those will start cutting already at 11 kHz.

[Rt66indierock]

14 minutes ago, realhifi said:

I haven't kept up.....is MQA still vaporware?

 

Nothing in the original post has changed. Bob told me at LAAS that I should be able to purchase downloads in the United States later this year. Streaming doesn't count you have to able to buy. 

[crenca]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Considering what can be done in software I see endless opportunities in the near future for you to review, compare and write how to articles. This is type of software is only beginning. I seem to remember writing about wanting control of the filters a while back.

 

This is something I have maintained.  Whatever the DSP magic MQA is pulling off, why not wait for the inevitable competitor to come alone who offers the same thing in a much more congenial package for all involved?  Mansr is not impressed with this particular effort, but most imitations are not as good as the original - but a few always are...

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, crenca said:

This is something I have maintained.  Whatever the DSP magic MQA is pulling off, why not wait for the inevitable competitor to come alone who offers the same thing in a much more congenial package for all involved?  Mansr is not impressed with this particular effort, but most imitations are not as good as the original - but a few always are...

Well, I don't believe in the evils of linear phase filters to begin with. If you do, there are cheaper (free) tools that will apply a simple FIR filter.

[crenca]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

Well, I don't believe in the evils of linear phase filters to begin with. If you do, there are cheaper (free) tools that will apply a simple FIR filter.

 

Sorry, did not mean to single your comments out in any way!  In a way, I am looking forward to the next 12 months or so as the nascent "blurring fix" DSP market materializes and seeing if there is anything actually to this aspect of MQA...

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

Streaming doesn't count you have to able to buy.

 

I'll respectfully disagree with you on this one. Saying a streaming technology is vaporware because one can't purchase and download music using this technology, is a bit strange. MQA is all about streaming. 

 

 

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, realhifi said:

I haven't kept up.....is MQA still vaporware?

 

a vaporous fog descended over the moors, the evil intent shrouded in the howl of wolves descending on the helpless villagers

[mansr]

In case someone wants to peek inside some MQA files, there are now tools available to do just that:

If you can figure out how to use them, that is.

[Digital Assassin]

39 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I'll respectfully disagree with you on this one. Saying a streaming technology is vaporware because one can't purchase and download music using this technology, is a bit strange. MQA is all about streaming. 

 

 

However, this is not the story told at the beginning.

 

Here is John Atkinson quoted, with two totally untrue today fact:

 

As MQA needs to be applied at the mastering stage in a recording's production, it doesn't improve the sound quality of your existing CD collection. It is really only relevant to downloads.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ive-heard-future-streaming-meridians-mqa#iVGw34mUHUGtC4bm.99

 

The story kept on changing, and keeps on changing to this day.

[Digital Assassin]

20 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Look how long Meridian fooled people. I have difficulty understanding why someone would choose to lose one million Pounds a year for 24 years but Meridian did.

You can continue to bleed money until the cows come home if you marry an incredibly wealthy American woman whose family pumps cash into your failing business.

[Shadders]

5 minutes ago, Digital Assassin said:

However, this is not the story told at the beginning.

 

Here is John Atkinson quoted, with two totally untrue today fact:

 

As MQA needs to be applied at the mastering stage in a recording's production, it doesn't improve the sound quality of your existing CD collection. It is really only relevant to downloads.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ive-heard-future-streaming-meridians-mqa#iVGw34mUHUGtC4bm.99

 

The story kept on changing, and keeps on changing to this day.

Hi,

MQA modifies the data - processes the data to de-blur (their inference) - so this means that for a specific recording all you need is the processing stages for the recording, to apply yourself. It has been stated that the final filter in your DAC has negligible effect on temporal blurring considering all others in the chain.

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/beyond-high-resolution/?page=3

 

So, if the record company told us the relevant filters in the original recording chain, we could in fact implement de-blurring through a simple computer program operating on the CD data - so you can stream it once processed.

Please correct the above if incorrect.

Regards,

Shadders.

[rickca]

20 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Look how long Meridian fooled people. I have difficulty understanding why someone would choose to lose one million Pounds a year for 24 years but Meridian did.

Who provides MQA financial backing?  Is there a list of major shareholders?  I imagine it's private equity/venture capital firms, but who knows?  Maybe the labels themselves have taken a stake.