A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Johnseye]

Interesting.  Then he must see a benefit.  I'll let you know once I test.

[austinpop]

My Experiments with Eliminating High Impedance, Low Impedance and Network Noise

 

¡ Viva @JohnSwenson !

 

Once again, I have him to thank for a nice boost in SQ for cost of parts! Not to mention the motivation to build his grounding gizmos myself. Case in point:

 

But let's rewind. As I looked at my system picture, I tried to analyze how to apply John's latest findings. Here is the picture again:

 

I could be prone to the following:

1. High-impedance noise from the Meanwell SMPS's energizing the 3xLPS-1s. Granted, I had achieved some improvement by upgrading the power cords feeding them (to Pangea AC-14SE MkII's), and putting them on a separate strip isolated by a B&K 1604a. At the time, these changes had improved SQ, so perhaps the grounding gizmo would be unnecessary?
2. Low-impedance noise from the Meanwell SMPS's. Since I'm using LPS-1's across the board, they should be blocking this noise already.
3. Network noise. John found that of the switches he tested, only the Netgear FS105/108 (so far) seemed to block noise on the network data lines effectively. His hypothesis was that it appears to be a function of the magnetics used by switch vendors, but since these are sourced from OEMs, there isn't a reliable way to know which switches were good in this regard. Now, I use a modded Zyxel switch, that has the sCLK-EX mods. I couldn't just swap it out for the Netgear. Talking to John on PM, he came up with the obvious experiment - put the Netgear FS105 upstream of the Zyxel, and see if it helps.

Initial Results - Disappointing

 

Due to a bum batch of screw terminal DC barrels, my grounding gizmo construction project ran into delays. In the meanwhile Amazon delivered my FS105NA (12V), and I powered it with an El Cheapo LPS (Breeze Audio) that was gathering dust on my shelf. I hooked up the switch and placed it upstream of my Zyxel. Can't say I heard a difference. Hmm, disappointing, but oh well, worth a try.

 

Round 2 - Grounding Gizmos Rule!

 

With a new batch of DC barrel screw terminals, I was able to build grounding gizmos for all 3x Meanwells - going into a single AC plug - and one for the output of my El Cheapo, this one with its own AC plug (pictured above). After much testing and double and triple checking, I plugged these gizmos in with trepidation. No sparks, thankfully! 

 

I applied these in two phases:

1. Ground all the Meanwells. This addresses the high-impedance SMPS noise that John identified. Hot damn - yeah! I heard a difference. Reduced noise floor, more air, bigger image. Just to be clear - this wasn't yuge, but definitely noticeable.
2. Add the FS105, powered by El Cheapo, grounded with another gizmo, upstream of my trifecta. Again - yeah! Another nice little boost. Remember, I have attempted to optimize the Ethernet path already:
   • the Zyxel has upgraded linear regulators and capacitors, although the magnetics are of course, whatever Zyxel sourced.
   • the cable from the Zyxel to the modded sMS is a dCBL-Cat7, which has Lee's patented filter, which I have already found to make a difference
   • I've tried isolators (Baaske, SOtM iSO-Cat6) both upstream and downstream of the Zyxel already, without any benefit. Clearly the isolation provided by the FS105 magnetics is operating on a different noise. And - it really needs a PSU that's been properly grounded to remove high-impedance noise. Since El Cheapo is an LPS, I'm hoping it has minimal low-impedance noise. 

The aggregate impact of both sets of changes is actually rather nice and not subtle at all. Given that all of it cost under $40 in parts - the bulk of which is the switch ($22) - it's a no-brainer.

 

By all means, please try it. 

 

Thanks again, John Swenson, for your insights. Unlike a lot of people who blather on and argue endlessly in the CA forums about audio science, your work actually makes our systems sound better.

 

Carry on, mi amigo!

[MikeyFresh]

On 10/23/2017 at 9:45 AM, charlesphoto said:

Also, I might be wary of using one of these adapter stacks where the quality of the cable really counts - as in right before a Rendu.

 

I shared that concern and decided to make a slightly different version of this without any actual adaptors, even though my Meanwell is not right before a rendu. So a little more like the Groundhog approach.

 

My parts arrived today:

 

 

I used a high pressure crimp on a ring terminal with 14 gauge stranded wire. The ring terminal had to be slightly modified using a Dremel tool as the inner diameter of the ring was a bit too tight to fit around the Meanwell's DC plug. 

 

 

This tweak has a positive effect on my system, very similar to as described above by @austinpop in phase 1 of his experiment, primarily I noted improvement in dynamic contrast and low-level detail, and a noticeably larger airier stereo image when grounding the Meanwell this way.

 

Big thanks to @JohnSwenson!

[ElviaCaprice]

23 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

I shared that concern and decided to make a slightly different version of this without adaptors.

 

My parts arrived today:

 

 

I used a high pressure crimp on a ring terminal with 14 gauge stranded wire. The ring terminal had to be slightly modified using a Dremel tool as the inner diameter of the ring was a bit too tight to fit around the Meanwell's DC plug. 

 

 

This tweak has a positive effect on my system, very similar to as described above by @austinpop in phase 1 of his experiment, primarily I noted improvement in dynamic contrast and low-level detail, and a noticeably larger airier stereo image when grounding the Meanwell this way.

I did exactly as you did, but all my power supplies (6 total) we're connected to the same plug bought at Home Depot plugged into the same power strip, as the supplies, connected to my isolation transformer.   Was cheap and easy, had the parts laying around.

BUT

There is no distinct noticeable impact to SQ.   Easy to test by unplugging, plugging back in the one outlet that all are grounded too.

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I did exactly as you did, but all my power supplies (6 total) we're connected to the same plug bought at Home Depot plugged into the same power strip, as the supplies, connected to my isolation transformer.   Was cheap and easy, had the parts laying around.

BUT

There is no distinct noticeable impact to SQ.   Easy to test by unplugging, plugging back in the one outlet that all are grounded too.

 

Just a tip! Make sure to ground the DC- outputs of PSUs powering network devices separately to non-network devices. I grounded my SMPS powering my ISO Regen to the same grounding point as Aqvox/Aries Mini which didn't end up good. Separating the IR and Aqvox/Aries Mini to different grounding points resolved the issue.

[ElviaCaprice]

10 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Just a tip! Make sure to ground the DC- outputs of PSUs powering network devices separately to non-network devices. I grounded my SMPS powering my ISO Regen to the same grounding point as Aqvox/Aries Mini which didn't end up good. Separating the IR and Aqvox/Aries Mini to different grounding points resolved the issue.

I don't use network devices.  My audio system is self enclosed, no LAN.  Could be why I don't have anything to gain from this mod?

Anything non related to my audio system is not being powered on the strip from my Isolation transformer.

[Cornan]

4 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I don't use network devices.  My audio system is self enclosed. 

Anything non related to my audio system is not being powered on the strip from my Isolation transformer.

 

Ok, but it is still worth to separate grounding points to limit the possibilities for a good old ground loop or cut possible leakage paths. Experiment a bit where it matters most.

[ElviaCaprice]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

 

Ok, but it is still worth to separate grounding points to limit the possibilities for a good old ground loop. Experiment a bit where it matters most.

The sound is fantastic, there is no grounding loop.  No Amp or preamp, the biggest culprits.  All linear power supplies.  No direct AC.

[Cornan]

14 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

The sound is fantastic, there is no grounding loop.  No Amp or preamp, the biggest culprits.  All linear power supplies.  No direct AC.

 

I can imagine it sounds great! ?

I am just saying that if you do not hear any changes in SQ with the DC- output grounding it could be worth experimenting a bit with different grounding spots. Usually it is more effective to have maximum two devices connected to a single grounding spot. It is also better to use grounding wires with silver content IME.

[ElviaCaprice]

15 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I can imagine it sounds great! ?

I am just saying that if you do not hear any changes in SQ with the DC- output grounding it could be worth experimenting a bit with different grounding spots. Usually it is more effective to have maximum two devices connected to a single grounding spot. It is also better to use grounding wires with silver content IME.

Just going by what JS recommended.  Said go ahead and ground all to one plug.  Silver wires for grounding?  Oh boy!  Not going there.  No, I think I shall conclude that there just was no issue to begin with.  Not saying others shouldn't try, definitely worth a shot, cheap mod.

[ElviaCaprice]

58 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Ok, but it is still worth to separate grounding points to limit the possibilities for a good old ground loop or cut possible leakage paths. Experiment a bit where it matters most.

Also, JS recommended powering all related audio components from the same power strip hooked up directly to an isolation transformer to ensure there could be no grounding loop issues and better impedance.  Maybe it was just for impedance?  Can't remember, but it works.

[Cornan]

4 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Also, JS recommended powering all related audio components from the same power strip hooked up directly to an isolation transformer to ensure there could be no grounding loop issues. 

 

Ofcourse it is all up to you to decide if you are curious enough to see if it makes a difference or not. It was only a friendly advice. 

[ElviaCaprice]

2 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Ofcourse it is all up to you to decide if you are curious enough to see if it makes a difference or not. It was only a friendly advice. 

Thank you, but I was never looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.  Just wanted to share my findings with the community. 

[octaviars]

9 hours ago, austinpop said:

Network noise. John found that of the switches he tested, only the Netgear FS105/108 (so far) seemed to block noise on the network data lines effectively. His hypothesis was that it appears to be a function of the magnetics used by switch vendors, but since these are sourced from OEMs, there isn't a reliable way to know which switches were good in this regard

 

It would be fun to see how D-link DGS-108 that JCAT, AQVOX and SOtM in USA uses to modify if that have this ability to stop the leakage. 

[lmitche]

Over here, there are two 12 volts devices powered by 2 different sigma 11 based linear  power supplies. One powers an Asus wired, wireless adapter with two emosystems lan filters running in series  to the USB nic.  The second powers a USB 3.1 10 gbps HDD enclosure. The sigma 11 LPSUs have floating secondary outputs.

 

Just for grins, two Swenson grounding wire rigs were built and installed. Without question the first connection to the Asus wireless adapter changed SQ in a positive way. The impact of the second ground wire is less clear, but certainly doesn't damage anything so it's staying in.

 

Many thanks to John for this simple and effective tweak.

[Bruce Orr]

9 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

I shared that concern and decided to make a slightly different version of this without any actual adaptors, even though my Meanwell is not right before a rendu. So a little more like the Groundhog approach.

 

My parts arrived today:

 

 

I used a high pressure crimp on a ring terminal with 14 gauge stranded wire. The ring terminal had to be slightly modified using a Dremel tool as the inner diameter of the ring was a bit too tight to fit around the Meanwell's DC plug. 

 

 

This tweak has a positive effect on my system, very similar to as described above by @austinpop in phase 1 of his experiment, primarily I noted improvement in dynamic contrast and low-level detail, and a noticeably larger airier stereo image when grounding the Meanwell this way.

 

Big thanks to @JohnSwenson!

 

Your solution appears a lot “tighter” and fewer parts. I like it. I’ll try it on my next one. On the ring terminal needing being too small a diameter.... would it make any difference if I just clipped the ring at 12 o’clock so it could be spread wider?

 

[ElviaCaprice]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Orr said:

 

Your solution appears a lot “tighter” and fewer parts. I like it. I’ll try it on my next one. On the ring terminal needing being too small a diameter.... would it make any difference if I just clipped the ring at 12 o’clock so it could be spread wider?

 

Yes, I just used spades, just like the groundhog.  As long as it holds against the outside barrel of the DC input.  Far less parts.

[austinpop]

7 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Yes, I just used spades, just like the groundhog.  As long as it holds against the outside barrel of the DC input.  Far less parts.

 

Elvia like things directly attached. It’s just the way he rolls. 

 

Just kidding around!

[MikeyFresh]

29 minutes ago, Bruce Orr said:

would it make any difference if I just clipped the ring at 12 o’clock so it could be spread wider?

 

 

That would certainly work just fine, or as stated in a previous post, nothing wrong with using a spade lug either.

 

The only other issue I ran into besides needing to grind down the inner diameter of the ring was the physical thickness of the crimp spot, it's actually just a bit too thick and gets in the way of the Meanwell's DC plug body fully seating at the input of the LPS-1. 

 

I solved that by using pliers with greater leverage to squeeze the crimp spot as flat as I could (flattening it after I had made the crimp). That fits, although I'm thinking I'll take it off the system again today and bend the ring terminal 90 degrees relative to the crimp spot, if that works out I'll post a picture.

 

In the meantime I bought a little space/clearance by putting an iFi DC Purifier inline, it looks like this:

 

[marce]

Slide 10

https://www.et.byu.edu/sites/default/files/electrical_grounding_0.pdf

Double isolated electrical equipment should not have any connection to the PE (protective earth), I would recommend checking your local regulations. Though when connected to class 1 equipment it is often effectively grounded. The PE is connected to the negative, so grounding double isolated can cause a shock via the added ground connections, whereas when un-grounded you have to be between the hot and neutral line to get a shock.

Just a thought on safety, worth checking with someone who is more au-fait with the regs.

[MikeyFresh]

37 minutes ago, marce said:

Slide 10

https://www.et.byu.edu/sites/default/files/electrical_grounding_0.pdf

Double isolated electrical equipment should not have any connection to the PE (protective earth), I would recommend checking your local regulations. Though when connected to class 1 equipment it is often effectively grounded. The PE is connected to the negative, so grounding double isolated can cause a shock via the added ground connections, whereas when un-grounded you have to be between the hot and neutral line to get a shock.

Just a thought on safety, worth checking with someone who is more au-fait with the regs.

 

Interesting in relation to the apparent existence of "medical grade" Meanwell units that are already grounded and thus already block the leakage/don't need this tweak.

 

Are those Meanwell units perhaps not double insulated? 

 

Also puzzling to me is why these Meanwell units have an IEC input with a 3rd pin but it doesn't actually connect to anything, why do they even include a 3-pin IEC if the ground pin is not even connected?

 

I appreciate the link and the safety concern. For me it is a very small issue as neither I nor any household member will be touching/handling the LPS-1 while live, the very first thing I do before handling it for any reason is unplug and disconnect it from AC power.

[lmitche]

5 hours ago, lmitche said:

Over here, there are two 12 volts devices powered by 2 different sigma 11 based linear  power supplies. One powers an Asus wired, wireless adapter with two emosystems lan filters running in series  to the USB nic.  The second powers a USB 3.1 10 gbps HDD enclosure. The sigma 11 LPSUs have floating secondary outputs.

 

Just for grins, two Swenson grounding wire rigs were built and installed. Without question the first connection to the Asus wireless adapter changed SQ in a positive way. The impact of the second ground wire is less clear, but certainly doesn't damage anything so it's staying in.

 

Many thanks to John for this simple and effective tweak.

Out of curiousity, early this morning I tested the USB 3.1 HDD throughput with the ATTO benchmark utility. This benchmark does read and write throughout based on dyadically increasing blocks sizes. With and without the Swenson ground made no difference in the performance above 16k blocksize, but the performance with the lower block sizes was better with the ground wire in place as throughput maxed out sooner.

 

I have no idea why, less noise I would guess.

[MikeyFresh]

Bending the ring terminal 90 degrees has solved my clearance issue, it both fits in the available space and allows the Meanwell plug to fully seat, while not making any physical contact with the LPS-1 chassis:

 

 

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, marce said:

Slide 10

https://www.et.byu.edu/sites/default/files/electrical_grounding_0.pdf

Double isolated electrical equipment should not have any connection to the PE (protective earth), I would recommend checking your local regulations. Though when connected to class 1 equipment it is often effectively grounded. The PE is connected to the negative, so grounding double isolated can cause a shock via the added ground connections, whereas when un-grounded you have to be between the hot and neutral line to get a shock.

Just a thought on safety, worth checking with someone who is more au-fait with the regs.

 

An additional point of confusion for me is the lack of any double insulated symbol on the Meanwell GST25A07-P1J unit that came with the LPS-1, though there are a lot of symbols on it's model identifier plate and I don't profess to know what they all stand for.

 

This is in contrast to a similar but not identical 5v Meanwell unit I have, the GS18B05-P1J. That one does indeed have the double insulated symbol, and another difference is it uses a 2-pin AC input connector instead of the 3-pin IEC input found on the 7.5v unit.

 

 

[charlesphoto]

So far this grounding tweak has utterly transformed my systems (both main and basement office). I’ve put on ten of these ground shunts so far, from the server and switches to FMC’s and even Roku’s, and honestly I’m not sure which ones are doing the transformation, but they’re all staying, and I’m waiting on 2.5mm connectors to do the Vortexbox and router properly. I’m over the moon with the sound now, esp considering the cost and ease of the tweak. I will keep an eye out for double insulated Class II, but that seems primarily for hand tools (consequently the reason the medical Meanwells are that). I also put a small wrap of electrical tape around the connectors just to be on the safe and tidy side.