Overall Isolation - network, USB, and power

[austinpop]

I know that it is not the norm vs other users.

First, it could simply be that I was sharing my HDPlex LPSU with my DAC and the RUR and that was creating "cross contamination"? I don't currently have another LPSU to test and I am assuming that using the supplied SMPS will not help any??

As per your request, here is my entire "chain":

Aurender N100H (*ethernet BJ Cat6a also connected, Passive Network Isolator on order) -> Cardas Highspeed USB Cable (it's a split cable like the Lightspeed) -> ( * now removed W4S RUR (sharing HDPLEX LPSU w/ DAC) -> 2nd Cardas Highspeed USB Cable) -> AQ Jitterbug -> Aeries Vega DAC (*into HDPlex LPSU) -> Balanced AQ Colorado XLR cables -> Integra Pre/Pro -> Balanced AQ King Cobra XLR cables -> Emotiva XPR 2 (*not lower end XPA series) -> AQ Rocket 88 speaker cables -> Martin Logan Summit X electrostatics

Let me know your thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks a bunch!!

 

Hi @agladstone

 

First off - I never discount anything you hear in your system with your ears. Ultimately, that's all that matters, and what others hear, or claim to hear, is only something to take under advisement, not treat as gospel truth.

 

That said, it does appear there are at several CA users over on the RUR threads like this one below, who are reporting benefits with the N100H > RUR > Vega chain. You may want to PM them for their experience.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/wyred-4-sounds-recovery-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-reclocker-findings-audio-performance-curated-thread-27140/

 

My humble suggestion would be to compare these configs:

1. N100H > Vega (your baseline)
   
2. N100H > RUR > Vega
   
3. N100H > Jitterbug > Vega
   
4. N100H > Jitterbug > RUR > Vega
   

 

I've not used the Jitterbug, but I do wonder if its presence after the RUR in your chain is negating its effect.

 

I think it's OK for the RUR and the Vega to powered by different rails of the HDPlex in configs 2 and 4. I'm sure the purists would argue for separate supplies. I would be more concerned if the HDPlex were powering devices on two sides of a gavanic isolation boundary, but since the the RUR and the Vega are not galvanically isolated from each other, it should be OK to try.

 

The hypotheses you'd be proving (or disproving) with these configurations, based on the forum wisdom would be: Configs 2 sounds better than config 1.

 

Additionally, you'd assess the relative merits of configs 3 and 4 relative to 1 and 2.

 

Does this help?

[scan80269]

The Auralic Vega DAC takes in AC power (IEC AC receptacle), so it is not possible to power it with an HDPlex LPS, as far as I can tell (at least without modifying the Vega).

 

My friend and I both plug our Vega DAC through a small (100VA) toroidal balanced isolation transformer. We also recently added a Jensen XLR isolation transformer to the balanced analog outputs, and the sound improved noticeably, and the USB input became better sounding than the AES digital input. It was the other way round before the Jensen XLR transformer was added.

[ElviaCaprice]

We also recently added a Jensen XLR isolation transformer to the balanced analog outputs, and the sound improved noticeably, and the USB input became better sounding than the AES digital input. It was the other way round before the Jensen XLR transformer was added.

 

Which path direction do you think the interference was coming from? If amp and or preamp, do you think toroidal balanced isolation transformer on those component(s) would have also been a solution (instead of the Jensen)?

[r_w]

@agladstone

 

N100 > Intona > RUR > VEGA

... power everything with LPS, lift all USB GND via switches and remove all jitterbugs.

 

That's what I would do / have done.

[lmitche]

The Auralic Vega DAC takes in AC power (IEC AC receptacle), so it is not possible to power it with an HDPlex LPS, as far as I can tell (at least without modifying the Vega).

 

My friend and I both plug our Vega DAC through a small (100VA) toroidal balanced isolation transformer. We also recently added a Jensen XLR isolation transformer to the balanced analog outputs, and the sound improved noticeably, and the USB input became better sounding than the AES digital input. It was the other way round before the Jensen XLR transformer was added.

Did you use a balanced to balanced or balanced to single ended Jensen transformer?

[Theobetley]

What a great response. You are a treasure trove of knowledge/experience in all stuff audio. Since I do have a uRendu it will be interesting to test whether these filters do anything for me.

 

 

Just 1 Baaske improves the imaging very noticeably. I have it between my router and the uRendu.

[scan80269]

Did you use a balanced to balanced or balanced to single ended Jensen transformer?

I'm using a Jensen ISO.MAX PI-2XX balanced to balanced transformer with XLR in and XLR out jacks. My headphone setup is balanced all the way from DAC to the headphones, and my friend's setup is balanced from DAC to analog crossover to 2 x power amps. He uses a PI-2XX between DAC and crossover and two more between crossover and the two amps. The sonic improvement with the three transformers added was not subtle. We have been fans of balanced interconnects for some time.

[scan80269]

Which path direction do you think the interference was coming from? If amp and or preamp, do you think toroidal balanced isolation transformer on those component(s) would have also been a solution (instead of the Jensen)?

 

That's a good question. I'm not sure of the answer.

 

My friend has his Aries Femto, Vega DAC and speaker crossover plugged into a Furman Elite-20 PFi power conditioner. There is no pre-amp. The two power amps are plugged into a Furman IT-1210 balanced isolation transformer, which is plugged into a power factor corrected outlet of the Elite-20 PFi. Even with this setup, the addition of the PI-2XX Jensen transformers into the balanced signal chain yielded a distinct sonic improvement.

 

It would be good for my friend and I to sit down and analyze the whole system to see where the leakage loops exist. We have been modifying our setups largely based on listening evaluations.

[Theobetley]

Thx Jud.

So does $29 cover 2 units or just 1?

Theo, great to hear from you. I added the Baaske between the player computer (in your case your uRendu, in this case an R-Pi) and a FMC-based optical network segment, which provides VERY good isolation from the upstream computer with no impact on network quality and a significant improvement in sound quality.

 

For that I used two of these FMCs from Amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0034CMZIG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

one of these cables also from Amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000067SCD/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

and two of these power supplies from Jameco to replace the supplied SMPS adapters on the FMCs:

 

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=1953639

 

For slightly better sound instead of two of these, on the FMC at the computer I am currently using this battery from Amazon to power it:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FAU7ZB2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

And I charge the battery all the time with this adapter instead:

 

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=168605

 

While I DIY'd the cables for this, jcn3 nicely provided these two links for appropriate adapter cables:

 

Here's the adapter: https://www.amazon.com/Conwork-Charger-Adapter-Connector-Multimedia/dp/B01G6EBIZY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477134390&sr=8-2&keywords=Barrel+jack+to+mini+usb

 

You'll also need this on the other side: https://www.amazon.com/CableDeconn-Volt-Barrel-Power-Cable/dp/B012VLKXKM/ref=pd_sim_23_1?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B012VLKXKM&pd_rd_r=Z3TMWHPJ7MH46G2WTGH7&pd_rd_w=iFwXr&pd_rd_wg=E6WDs&psc=1&refRID=Z3TMWHPJ7MH46G2WTGH7

 

The two FMCs WILL both work with 5VDC adapters instead of 9VDC adapters for direct powering due to the type of regulator in the units. BUT some have reported they sound better with 9VDC instead of 5VDC when powered from an adapter. That makes me think that a higher voltage battery setup might be better too, but I am VERY happy with the improvements I got from the FMC + Baaske filter setup and I am not terribly inclined to spend more time tweaking my network setup now... I have other fish to fry!

 

Later!

 

Greg in Mississippi

Does $29 cover 2 FMC units or just 1?

[austinpop]

Bonus update

I got home today and discovered my Teralink X1/X2 U9VA LPS on the doorstep. This package had been assumed lost by the seller and eBay.

 

So finally, I had something to replace my stock SMPS on my W4S RUR.

 

I just had an initial listen, and it's made me smile already. Will confirm with further listening.

 

A nice preview of more good things to come with the LPS-1.

 

Further LPS update

 

Well, when it rains, it pours. And - it has been raining in Austin. But that's not what I mean.

 

It's been raining Chinese LPSes at chez austinpop. No sooner had my Teralink showed up after a 35-day wait, and presumed lost, my el cheapo Breeze 9V 30W LPS showed up in a record 4 days from China.

 

After some experimentation, here is what is sounding best in my system. And it is sweet indeed!

 

• El cheapo powering the RUR (displacing the Teralink)
  
• Teralink powering my downstream FMC (displacing the Tecknet battery)
  
• My upstream FMC still has the Tecknet battery, but I can tell no difference with that vs. just using the Jameco 9v, so I will pull the batteries out altogether.
  
• I may revisit batteries at some point, but to me a decent LPS just has more heft and weight, while the batteries sound softer. Funny - because I said the same about the batteries compared to the Jameco warts.
  
• In general, SQ differences from PSUs for the downstream FMC are fairly subtle for me.
  

 

One thing I will keep reinforcing and urging - revisit your findings periodically. You may think you heard tweak A sound better than tweak B some time ago, but double check periodically if that still holds.

 

Rajiv

[fob69]

You should complete your isolation work with a look to the : Discussion of AC mains isolation transformers (started w/posts moved from "LPS-1 troubleshooting" thread)

 

The new 2016 killer audio upgrade is : you take your device out of the box and you plug it to the wall

 

Bernard

[Middy]

A specific Topaz US version...waiting for a low power UK alternative to come up..... I hope someone more knowledgeable can help...

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[fob69]

You have this available in england (but very expensive) : Torus Power Toroidal Isolation Power Transformers

 

The results with isolation transfos are a bit unpredictable.

[Middy]

The one suggested by John second hand a couple of hundred US.

Up to 5k is a bit painful .....

 

Thank you for the link... it is Halloween so being frightened is normal ?

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[fob69]

Audio gd has one too at 2000€ normal price considering that the plane cannot take of from Foshan with more than two in bagage hold.

 

Did you talk your wife about the anvil in the living room ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Tplink optical bridge/etalon streamer/audiogd nfb29/linn klout/athom sirrocco + athom rafale v38 hypex

[gstew]

Does $29 cover 2 FMC units or just 1?

 

$29 each, so $58 for 2. You can also check for used ones at Amazon, I recently saw some at $26 with Prime shipping.

 

I also have some TrendNet ones I got on Amazon for $15 each used. On first try these seemed to produce slightly better SQ in my setup than the TPLink. But looking inside of them I see a regulator chip that I haven't been able to find good info on yet. The TrendNet ones come with 7.5v SMPS adapters, but until I can confirm the parameters of that chip, I can't say if they will work with either the 9v Jameco linear adapter OR the 5v Tecknet battery. Of course the TrendNet ones will work with a 7.5v linear supply BUT one would have to DIY it (or find it elsewhere, likely for a lot more $) as Jameco does not make a 7.5v linear regulated adapter. And with both the Jameco linear supply being so inexpensive yet working well AND the alternative 5v Tecknet battery working so well even when being charged, unless one can DIY a 7.5v supply, the TrendNet does not end up being a less expensive option than the TPLink.

 

I DO NOT recommend using the stock SMPS adapters on the FMCs, ESPECIALLY ON THE receiving side (next to your DAC or uRendu or whatever). In my setup the positive impact is much better with linear supplies here (or if one is VERY flush, an Uptone Audio LPS-1 would work well here too!).

 

Greg in Mississippi

[Theobetley]

$29 each, so $58 for 2. You can also check for used ones at Amazon, I recently saw some at $26 with Prime shipping.

 

I also have some TrendNet ones I got on Amazon for $15 each used. On first try these seemed to produce slightly better SQ in my setup than the TPLink. But looking inside of them I see a regulator chip that I haven't been able to find good info on yet. The TrendNet ones come with 7.5v SMPS adapters, but until I can confirm the parameters of that chip, I can't say if they will work with either the 9v Jameco linear adapter OR the 5v Tecknet battery. Of course the TrendNet ones will work with a 7.5v linear supply BUT one would have to DIY it (or find it elsewhere, likely for a lot more $) as Jameco does not make a 7.5v linear regulated adapter. And with both the Jameco linear supply being so inexpensive yet working well AND the alternative 5v Tecknet battery working so well even when being charged, unless one can DIY a 7.5v supply, the TrendNet does not end up being a less expensive option than the TPLink.

 

I DO NOT recommend using the stock SMPS adapters on the FMCs, ESPECIALLY ON THE receiving side (next to your DAC or uRendu or whatever). In my setup the positive impact is much better with linear supplies here (or if one is VERY flush, an Uptone Audio LPS-1 would work well here too!).

 

Greg in Mississippi

Thanks Greg. I may buy some Telegartner Ethernet connectors which come in lots of 10. If I have some extras you want some?

[gstew]

Thanks Greg. I may buy some Telegartner Ethernet connectors which come in lots of 10. If I have some extras you want some?

 

Sure, thanks! Just let me know how much.

 

Greg in Mississippi

[austinpop]

You should complete your isolation work with a look to the : Discussion of AC mains isolation transformers (started w/posts moved from "LPS-1 troubleshooting" thread)

 

The new 2016 killer audio upgrade is : you take your device out of the box and you plug it to the wall

 

Bernard

 

Yeah, I'm watching that thread.

 

I haven't really talked about the AC side of my system. I made a decision to go the regeneration route when I found an incredible deal on a used PS Audio P5 and AC-12 cable. Right now, my AC chain enhancements are:

• Dedicated 20A line to my outlet
  
• PS Audio PowerPort outlet
  
• PS Audio P5 Regenerator
  
• PS Audio AC-12 cable from wall to P5
  
• Assorted Pangea power cables to gear, including LPSes
  

 

Since my high-end setup is for head-fi, my total load on the P5, even with my Cavalli amp and the Ayre Codex running in Class A, is around 1.3-1.5 Amps. I realize this is well below capacity, and to be honest, I was looking more at the P3, but at the price, the P5 was a no brainer.

 

While I didn't do a careful A/B when I first put the P-5 in, the improvements were very tangible. Once my system is in steady state in a few weeks, with everything nicely burned in, I plan to heed my own advice to revisit changes, and compare my system with and without the P5.

 

If a clear consensus emerges on the isolation transformer thread, with enough reports of people consistently hearing improvements over regenerators, I will of course look into it.

 

For now, honestly, I am very pleased with the AC side of my system!

[agladstone]

Hi @agladstone

 

First off - I never discount anything you hear in your system with your ears. Ultimately, that's all that matters, and what others hear, or claim to hear, is only something to take under advisement, not treat as gospel truth.

 

That said, it does appear there are at several CA users over on the RUR threads like this one below, who are reporting benefits with the N100H > RUR > Vega chain. You may want to PM them for their experience.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/wyred-4-sounds-recovery-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-reclocker-findings-audio-performance-curated-thread-27140/

 

My humble suggestion would be to compare these configs:

1. N100H > Vega (your baseline)
   
2. N100H > RUR > Vega
   
3. N100H > Jitterbug > Vega
   
4. N100H > Jitterbug > RUR > Vega
   

 

I've not used the Jitterbug, but I do wonder if its presence after the RUR in your chain is negating its effect.

 

I think it's OK for the RUR and the Vega to powered by different rails of the HDPlex in configs 2 and 4. I'm sure the purists would argue for separate supplies. I would be more concerned if the HDPlex were powering devices on two sides of a gavanic isolation boundary, but since the the RUR and the Vega are not galvanically isolated from each other, it should be OK to try.

 

The hypotheses you'd be proving (or disproving) with these configurations, based on the forum wisdom would be: Configs 2 sounds better than config 1.

 

Additionally, you'd assess the relative merits of configs 3 and 4 relative to 1 and 2.

 

Does this help?

Thanks for the input / suggestions!

I do have the Jitterbug coming out of my DAC -> Cardas High Speed USB -> DAC.

I had it this way when I had the RUR in place also.

Ive tried all the different scenarios that you suggested prior to removing the RUR, and for some reason ( as stated not the norm on this forum), my system sounds much better without the RUR in place and with the jitterbug in the loop.

I suspect if I bought the LPS-1, that may help??

I have 3 network Isolators on order and also all new Ethernet cables (BlueJeans Cat 6a), so I want to see what improvements that will make.

Anyone on this thread also use a cable TV RG6 islolator??

I was thinking since I have a cable modem feeding my router ) I will insert one of the network Isolators in between the cable modem and router), that if I isolated the ground first to the RG6 coming into my condo and maybe again right before the splitter (splits cable box and modem), that it may also help clean up some noise and ground hum, etc?!

[agladstone]

The Auralic Vega DAC takes in AC power (IEC AC receptacle), so it is not possible to power it with an HDPlex LPS, as far as I can tell (at least without modifying the Vega).

 

My friend and I both plug our Vega DAC through a small (100VA) toroidal balanced isolation transformer. We also recently added a Jensen XLR isolation transformer to the balanced analog outputs, and the sound improved noticeably, and the USB input became better sounding than the AES digital input. It was the other way round before the Jensen XLR transformer was added.

Sorry for the confusion! I actually replaced the Auralic Vega DAC with a mytek DAC that does use the HDPlex LPS that my RUR was sharing.

[austinpop]

Thanks for the input / suggestions!

I do have the Jitterbug coming out of my DAC -> Cardas High Speed USB -> DAC.

I had it this way when I had the RUR in place also.

Ive tried all the different scenarios that you suggested prior to removing the RUR, and for some reason ( as stated not the norm on this forum), my system sounds much better without the RUR in place and with the jitterbug in the loop.

I suspect if I bought the LPS-1, that may help??

 

Trust your [emoji101] [emoji101]. [emoji16]

 

If that's your experience, then be happy and sell the RUR! I can't say if/how much the LPS-1 will help. I'll know in my system once mine arrives in 2-3 weeks.

 

 

I have 3 network Isolators on order and also all new Ethernet cables (BlueJeans Cat 6a), so I want to see what improvements that will make.

Anyone on this thread also use a cable TV RG6 islolator??

I was thinking since I have a cable modem feeding my router ) I will insert one of the network Isolators in between the cable modem and router), that if I isolated the ground first to the RG6 coming into my condo and maybe again right before the splitter (splits cable box and modem), that it may also help clean up some noise and ground hum, etc?!

 

Sound thinking. It'll be interesting to hear your impressions. Logic would suggest the most important isolation point is right before your N100H. How much that helps is one data point. How much additional SQ improvement you get from the cable modem to router, and RG6 to cable modem, would be additional data points.

[fob69]

Yeah, I'm watching that thread.

 

I haven't really talked about the AC side of my system. I made a decision to go the regeneration route when I found an incredible deal on a used PS Audio P5 and AC-12 cable. Right now, my AC chain enhancements are:

• Dedicated 20A line to my outlet
  
• PS Audio PowerPort outlet
  
• PS Audio P5 Regenerator
  
• PS Audio AC-12 cable from wall to P5
  
• Assorted Pangea power cables to gear, including LPSes
  

 

Since my high-end setup is for head-fi, my total load on the P5, even with my Cavalli amp and the Ayre Codex running in Class A, is around 1.3-1.5 Amps. I realize this is well below capacity, and to be honest, I was looking more at the P3, but at the price, the P5 was a no brainer.

 

While I didn't do a careful A/B when I first put the P-5 in, the improvements were very tangible. Once my system is in steady state in a few weeks, with everything nicely burned in, I plan to heed my own advice to revisit changes, and compare my system with and without the P5.

 

If a clear consensus emerges on the isolation transformer thread, with enough reports of people consistently hearing improvements over regenerators, I will of course look into it.

 

For now, honestly, I am very pleased with the AC side of my system!

 

 

Yes. Having tried both, IMO isolation transfo are far beyond schaffners filters for HF filtering.

I think the recommended Topaz are really good stuff but in my case there would be a strong divorce risk.

 

About the new killer audio upgrade ... I did it today :-)

 

I removed my schaffners that IMO are no really useful since i isolate my digital chain with batteries and did a star ring with braided unshielded copper silver alpha wire AWG 24 with PTFE sleeve (and isolate the TV box supply that is in the same box but on an other AC line).

 

 

 

My 2X lifep4 battery supply is operationnal and works wonderfull but i am doing an other box. I will post pictures and info when it will be finished (probably next week).

 

B.

[austinpop]

To add to above:

 

I added a Baaske between my cable modem and router. It made me feel better to have that isolation in place.

 

Did it make an SQ difference? To my ears: no, nothing I could discern.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Cornan]

Trust your [emoji101] [emoji101]. [emoji16]

 

If that's your experience, then be happy and sell the RUR! I can't say if/how much the LPS-1 will help. I'll know in my system once mine arrives in 2-3 weeks.

 

 

 

 

Sound thinking. It'll be interesting to hear your impressions. Logic would suggest the most important isolation point is right before your N100H. How much that helps is one data point. How much additional SQ improvement you get from the cable modem to router, and RG6 to cable modem, would be additional data points.

I am using the Supra F-Con Isolator on my router input with good results http://www.jenving.com/products/view/gss-aerial-f-con-1011001144

 

 

I am also planning to change my current SAT cable to this QED dito http://www.futureshop.co.uk/qed-professional-satellite-extension-cable-fconnector-custom-p-958.html#.WB-LhGjMBSA

 

 

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